Tag: Korea

A Profile of the Bosan-dong Ville In Dongducheon, Korea

| August 5, 2011

Considering how popular my prior posting about the TDC Ville was I decided to publish a posting with even more information and pictures about the premier entertainment district in the 2ID area, the TDC Ville.  A recent trip to Korea gave me the perfect opportunity to walk through the TDC Ville in Dongducheon to take pictures of the various clubs and shops. For the past few years the local Korean government has really tried to fix up the ville and have even re-named it the Bosan-dong Special Tour District in effort to change the image of the ville:

Here is an excerpt from an article about why the local government is pouring roughly $5 million dollars into renovating the ville:

Mayor Oh, Sechang of Dongducheon and his city engineers have decided to give the area outside USAG-Casey’s main gate a face lift. They will be changing the looks and adding many new features to the area known as Bosandong village. Many enjoy the entertainment and shopping, which has been a feature of the area since the Korean War ended in 1950. The mayor and his engineers will add popular sports sections and popular shops such as those found in Itaewon in Seoul near USAG-Yongsan.

“Ever since the end of the Korean War, Bosandong flourished with Soldiers who would shop in the area,” said Jeon, Heung-Sik, Dongducheon Mayor’s Office particular operation region division engineer. “In 2004, the 2nd Brigade left USAG-Casey, which reduced the number of U.S. Soldiers in the area and the plan to relocate the Soldiers to USAG-Humphreys will change the customer base for good. Because Bosandong’s customer base has declined, the area has become run down. The mayor and Dongducheon City will renovate the area to attract customers of all kinds, including tourists not only from other parts of Korea, but from overseas as well.”  [Army.mil]

You can read more at the link, but it will be interesting to see if Bosan-dong ever does become a mainstream shopping area like Itaewon currently is in Seoul.  I actually took one day to go to Camp Casey and stop by the PX and look around before I decided to go and see how much the renovations have changed the ville:

The day I went to Camp Casey the weather was just perfect with sunny blue skies.  Here is the view looking under the subway bridge across the street from Camp Casey towards Camp Mobile on the right:

Picture from Dongducheon, South Korea

However, the next day when I went to go check out the ville it was raining heavily outside.  So I put on my rain jacket and proceeded to go ahead and check out the ville that morning despite the rain. Even with the heavy rain most of the pictures didn’t come out too bad plus the rain gave me the ville all to myself the morning that I did my walk through.  Little did I know that the rains would continue to fall for many days until severe flooding damaged the ville and led to this massive US military assisted clean up effort.

Anyway here is the main entrance to the ville on its north side between Camp Casey and Camp Mobile:

Picture from Dongducheon, South Korea

The renovations of hanging snowflakes and adding the brick road and instantly noticeable but really Bosan-dong still looks like the ville.  A good Korea analogy is putting make up on Songtan Sally.  It helps a little bit, but it is still Songtan Sally.

From the start of the ville a variety of clubs can be seen that run adjacent to the subway line:

Picture from Dongducheon, South Korea

This subway line wasn’t always here and there used to be a train line that ran through the ville that occasionally a drunk GI would get hit by.  Now the overpass that was constructed over 5 years ago has removed this hazard while at the same time providing a quick means of transportation to Seoul for the Soldiers stationed in Dongducheon.  As part of the local government’s efforts to clean up the ville they have not only fixed up many of the buildings but installed a number of public parks and facilities.  Here is one of the public facilities which is actually a common sight around Korea, which is publicly usable exercise equipment:

Picture from Dongducheon, South Korea

Before walking down the main strip of the ville I decided to go ahead and walk up towards the Highway 3 bypass and take some pictures from there.  While walking that way I passed a number of mink blanket shops that have been a main stay business in the ville for decades:

Picture from Dongducheon, South Korea

I know people who were stationed at Camp Casey in the 1960′s who have told me they still own their mink blanket they bought in the ville.  As walked up to the bypass I took this picture of the entrance to Camp Mobile:

For those that don’t know Camp Mobile is where the CIF facility is at where gear is issued to new Soldiers.  There is also a small runway there as well where in the past I was able to conduct helicopter insertion missions with the 1-503rd Infantry when they were stationed at Camp Casey.

Here is the major intersection that leads to Camp Casey from the Highway 3 bypass:

Picture from Dongducheon, South Korea

I can remember the traffic jams that use to plague this area a few years ago when this bridge was being built.  From the intersection I could see the old Camp Nimble water tower:

Old Camp Nimble Water Tower In Dongducheon, South Korea

This camp was closed down in 2005 as part of the USFK transformation plan to consolidate forces on the peninsula in preparation for a massive consolidation of forces on an expanded Camp Humphreys further down south.  Camp Nimble I could see was completely leveled leaving only the water tower.

From the intersection I made my way down a side alley to head back to the main area of the ville:

Picture from Dongducheon, South Korea

Here is the Miss Oh Shop:

Miss Oh Shop In Dongducheon, South Korea

Just past this shop I entered another alley where a few bars were located:

Cheers Club In Dongducheon, South Korea

Here is Cheers which was known as being an officer hang out when I was stationed at Camp Casey:

The next club used to be the Peace Club, but is now called Club Peace for whatever reason:

Back in the day the Peace Club was a nice place to hang out because they didn’t have Juicy Girls but eventually they brought in a few Juicy Girls that kind of ruined the atmosphere.

Anyway here is the Phoenix Club:

And here is the D Club:

By the way if anyone has any current information or stories they want to share about the various clubs mentioned in this posting please feel free to leave a comment.

I continued down the side alley heading back towards the main strip of the ville:

Here is the view looking back towards Club Peace:

Here is just another view of the back alley and the Poory Chop Store:

The alley exited near this park that was constructed in recent years as part of the renovation of Bosan-dong:

Not too far from the park is Phrawgh’s Tavern which some readers of this blog might recognize 😉  :

Near Phrawgh’s is Mojo’s American Bar:

Here is a picture of yet another newly constructed park that has a statue of some keys for some reason:

Anyone know what the keys are supposed to signify?

Anyway from the park I walked back over to the main entrance of the ville and took this picture of the King Club which is the first club that can be seen when walking into the ville:

Here are few of the stores and clubs further down from King Club such as the Caesar’s Palace Club:

Here is the Golden Gate Club and Bar 37:

Here is Club Ocean:

In the central area of the ville is this stage area where various public events can be held:

At one corner of the park is the Universal Paradise Club:

Here is a picture of the Harley Club and Club JJ:

Here is the Empire Club that used to be where the Black Rose was located:

The Black Rose used to the be the club that primarily only black soldiers used to hang out.  The Black Rose is nothing more than a gift shop now.  Here is a picture of the Deep Club and one of the many custom tailor shops in the ville:

I still have one of my custom suits I had made 10 years ago in TDC and still wear it from time to time.  You can get some high quality suits made in the ville for a very affordable price.

Here is the VIP Club:

Here is a picture of the joint US-Korea “Crime Prevention Center” located in the center of the ville near Bosan Station:

Here is the view looking north up the ville down the path I just walked up:

Here is the view looking south where the ville hits a three way intersection:

Notice that the path to the left takes people to the relatively new Bosan Subway Station.  The path on the right takes people to the Love Shop area of the ville:

I ended up taking the center path at the intersection that leads to yet more clubs in the ville:

I walked past first the Dragon Club:

Then the Sky Club:

Here is the Las Vegas Club:

And the Silver Star Club:

Here is the Mustang Club that a few years ago was infamous for fights but I have no idea if that is still the case today:

Here is the Together Club:

Tucked in a back alley is the Pan Korea Club which when I frequented the ville was a Hispanic Club:

Here are yet more clubs, the Player’s Club, Club Queen, and the Bridge Club:

This stretch of the ville is also home to the Rendezvous Club:

I don’t know if this is still the case but this club used to be run by a Korean mafia figure named Mr. Han.  I once saw him karate kick a guy in the face before in the bar that was causing trouble.  Anyone know if Mr. Han is still running this place?

Here is the Head Club that I always thought was the biggest fire trap in the ville:

Upstairs from the Head Club is the Deja Vu Club.  From the Head Club I detoured off on to a side alley that had yet more clubs and shops:

Here is yet another example of a custom tailor shop:

Just down the road is the Blackman Tailor Shop that has been a fixture in the ville for many years:

Down this side alley was yet more clubs such as Club Flex:

And here is the Pop Store Club:

Here is one of the few hotels that service the ville, the Hana Hotel:

Next to the Hana Hotel is the Latin Brothers Club that I don’t remember seeing the last time I was in the ville three years ago:

From Latin Brothers I walked over to the far southern end of Bosan-dong where the ville begins to transition into real Dongducheon.  Like on the north end the south end of the ville has had a makeover as well:

Since I head detoured off into the side alley from the main strip I decided to walk a little ways back up the strip to get some pictures of the clubs I hadn’t photographed yet.  Here is the Sun Club:

Here is the ACE Restaurant, the BMW Club, and the Focus Club:

Finally here is the Cowboys Club:

After taking a few photos of the clubs at the end of the ville, I then turned around to head back out the ville’s southern entrance.  The GS 25 store pictured on the left is kind of the defacto beginning of the real Dongducheon:

If I would have continued going straight down the street it would have taken me towards downtown Dongducheon.  Instead I took a left and headed towards Highway 3 that runs between the ville and Camp Casey.  Here is a picture I took of the alley that runs between the ville and Bosan Station:

This is a picture of the intersection with Highway 3.  Right goes deeper into Dongducheon while taking a left goes towards Camp Casey.  Here I took a left:

As I walked down the sidewalk this area of the ville is dominated by the massive Bosan Station that looks like a giant space ship landed in the middle of Dongducheon:

If this station is secretly an alien space ship at least they brought the Ono Sports Bar & Grill with them:

Across the street from the station was a few more bars and businesses:

Here is Club W:

Here is Marty’s American Sport’s Bar and Grill:

I can remember when Marty’s opened it was one of the nicest places to eat in the ville.  I don’t know if that is still the case considering all the other restaurants that have opened up as well in Bosan-dong in recent years.  For example here is a Brazilian BBQ house called Bossa Nova Grill:

I don’t know if this place is any good but it smelled good when I walked by.  As I continued down the sidewalk I saw plenty of other restaurants in this section of the ville as well:

Here is the Zula Bar & Grill which another one of the new restaurants in the ville:

The ville is of course also full of plenty of pawn shops, money exchanges, game and DVD shops, etc. that are fixture of just about every ville in Korea:

While walking back to Camp Casey, right across the street from the camp is the highly controversial Julie’s Realty:

Many ROK Drop readers may remember that Julie’s Realty was linked to BAH fraud down in Seoul.  I don’t know if they are still trying to pull the old housing fraud trick on servicemembers now, but walking by it appeared they were doing pretty good business:

Here I am looking south standing next to the bus stop across from Camp Casey:

In this area of the ville across the street from Camp Casey many coin and plaque shops can be found since Soldiers can easily visit these places during lunch in order to pick up various items for their units:

One of the unusual aspects of Korea when compared to state side assignments is how many people are always coming and going due to the one year tours that many Soldiers still receive to come to the 2nd Infantry Division.  Every time a Soldier leaves their unit it is customary to have what the Army calls a “Hail and Farewell” to welcome new personnel and farewell departing personnel.  The departing personnel usually are given a plaque or some other gift for their time with the unit which means shops like the one pictured above due brisk business.  The ajushi that work in these shops actually do really good work for a relatively good price.

Something surprising to me looking across the street is how this road that runs adjacent to Camp Casey has been widened:

This used to be a very narrow road that ran through a tight cluster of homes here.  All the buildings on the left side that bordered the base have been knocked down.  This little ville used to be a popular place for married Soldiers to find cheap housing for their families if they decided to bring them to Korea.

Here is the view across the street of the ubiquitous KNP buses that are pretty much parked near every major US military installation to provide security just in case any protesters show up to cause problems:

And that completed my walk around the ville.  Like I said before there has been much effort to clean the place up, but it is still the ville and always will be until the day US Soldiers leave Dongducheon.  If anyone has any stories they would like to share about the clubs pictured here or any other experiences they had in the ville please share with other readers in the comments section.

Note: You can read more from the ROK Drop featured series “A Profile of USFK Bases” at the below link:

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Note: These are comments that I had to manually move over from the old ROKdrop.com site.  Please post new comments down below:

I’ve still got my Korean Blankets from 30 years ago. Never have been able to sleep with anything else on the bed in winter. They sell a similar style blanket at a local flea market, but they just don’t seem the same.

Sad to hear that Camp Nimble is no longer there. It was always fun being across the river from the 2ID and being in the 8th Army.

I don’t recognize anything in the pictures anymore.

I can’t be leave how much TDC has changed in time that i was in TDC back in 1975 thru 1976 and even when i went back in 1985 I really loved it there back then even if i was very young 21 years old then.

Lt’s see.

CIF was moved to Stanley a number of years ago. Silly but true. The only reason a soldier might ever venture onto CP Mobile is to visit ACAP or they are in the UAS platoon.

For all intents and purposes, Club Flex is the old Black Rose, same owner.

Mr. Han died a couple years ago from a “heart attack”.

The Head Club should be avoided at all costs. Den of thieves, pimps and ice washers.

Zulu and Ono’s are owned by the Empire Club folks.

Those same folks tried to force the Brazilians out of business. Didn’t work…

The Sky Club… How they are not off limits for PHT and credit card fraud, I have no idea. They seem to do the most business, or any business, after the CP’s and MP’s call it a night. I can’t think of why anyone would go there except for a hand job… But beware, they will make sweet love to your credit card. I have heard of more than one instance of them running a card for thousands of dollars in one night. I guess sometimes your credit card company will back you, sometimes not. The Sky might be in close competition with Head Club and Cheers for the biggest scum balls in the ville.

Hasn’t been updated in a long time but here’s a TDC bar review some may find of interest. Some infomis out of date. The “Taliban rating” doesn’t mean as much anymore but at the time was very relevant. Many of the mainstays are still there.

http://www.mojosbar.com/clubs/

Leon thanks for the updates. If the CIF is closed at Camp Mobile they must be keeping that base open solely because of the airfield then.

As far as Mr. Han I’m sure there is probably more to that story than just a heart attack. It sounds like the Head Club is even a shadier place than it was just five years ago. I remember having to break up some serious fights there before between GI’s. They would play the heavy metal music and somebody would start a mosh pit and before you know it a fight would break out.

Jerry,cmt#1/ I left Korea in 88′. Been back a few times,
recently in May. I too loved the mink blankets. For some
reason on previous trips they never entered my mind until
I went into the Friendship Arcade on Yongsan to visit some
of my wife’s former co-workers that are still there(2).
Laid eyes on a stack of those blankets. A rush of memories
rushed into my mind. I bought a queen sized one, only $45.
Wife says Koreans do not buy or use them anymore. She could protest til the end of time, I got my blanket! A day or two later we were in SoDaeMoon, the big market that
is a bargain mecca in Seoul. You name it they got it. Did
not see any there. I was surprised that my wife may be
correct in her statement of the the blankets being passe’

In your#3 you mentioned that “ACAP” and “UAS” platoon. What do those mean? You are very knowledgeable about
TDC. Thanks for your input.

Leon Cmt #3, not Jerry. Excuse me for the mistake in the last paragraph in getting the two guys mixed up.

GI Korea 6, you broke up fights? I don’t understand. Were you there as a customer when fights broke out?

  1. The term used previously for unmanned aircraft was unmanned-aircraft vehicle system (UAV). The term unmanned aircraft system (UAS) is the newest military acronym, to emphasize the importance of other elements beyond an aircraft itself. A typical UAS consists of the:

* unmanned aircraft (UA)
* control system, such as Ground Control Station (GCS)
* control link, a specialized datalink
* other related support equipment.

ACAP is Army Career and Alumni Program, there old timer.

Mobile was mainly were all the MWR warehouses and refrigeration was, along with their motorpool. Also, 403rd AFSB is there. That’s were all the civilian government LARS and such have (had) their offices. The flood took all that out. If I was USFK I wouldn’t even bother reopening the place and move all that stuff to the now unoccupied Camp Castle BUT I heard the ROK army is already set to move in there. Anytime there is a flood, Mobile will get hit as it is the lowest point in Bo San Dong and right next to the river.

  1. Yep GI someone in the brain trust that runs this place decided it would be a great idea to put the turtle farm and CIF at Stanley.
  2. He was either a customer, walking the ville like a good NCO or on Courtesy Patrol (CP).

Glans in 2ID they have what is called Courtesy Patrols (CP’s) that walk around the ville and basically try to keep people out of trouble. As I mentioned in my comment my experience dealing with these clubs is dated but the Head Club was usually one where trouble would break out. Leon has much better knowledge on how things are now.

Leon LaPorte 10 suggests that GI Korea was an NCO when he broke up fights. Is that true, GI Korea? Are you currently an NCO?

I imagine you as a commissioned officer.

Commissioned officers should never break up fights or put themselves in a position needing to do so. First it could cause the officer not not be seen as a higher being by rolling in the mud and the guts and the beer. Second, he is endangering the welfare of the soldiers he is attempting to assist.

As I asked a young 2LT once who was attempting to take care of “his” troops, “What if you get hit LT?”. It goes from a minor scuffle in the ville to field grade action automatically. That’s business best left to NCO’s.

Leon LaPorte,
Where do the English teachers hang out and where can one stay a night or two? Is the Hana Hotel(next to Latin Brothers Club) the only option?

Never was a whole lot of English teachers in that part of town. Last I checked, even English teachers can stay in any hotel they want.

Hawaii Hotel is cheap. The Cima in 2nd market is nice and not overly expensive (W60,000). Or were you asking something else?

When I pulled CP in Itaewon, it was always a two man team made up of a Sr. NCO and a Jr. officer. I never once had to break up a fight. Maybe I was just lucky. Come to think of it…I don’t think I was authorized to break up a fight. I think we were supposed to call the MPs (we had radios).

So GI Korea was a lieutenant or captain. When he saw a fight, he said, “You men stop fighting!” and they did.

  1. How do you know they were men? Why do you assume men would be fighting? Are you a misandrist?

Leon LaPorte, my knowledge of the military is second-hand. In old movies, officers and senior NCOs (formerly known as non-coms) addressed their troops as you men. What is it now? You men and women? You straights and gays? You whites and non-whites?

Mr Han passed away few years ago……his “wife” still runs the reindevous

GI Korea, thankyou for posting these picks. I have left comments in TDC Ville a couple of years ago. I do not recognise the village as it is nowadays. It has changed alot since 1978. Of all the pics you posted I recognize only the Rendezvous and Club Pan Korea. Not sure I would like Bosan-dong. My first and only time with two women was a short time in the ville. Back then we did not carry credit/debit cards. Don’t think they had the capability to run a card back then. Everything was on a cash only basis. Both of them were hot young Korean women. I paid them $5 each and gave them a $5 tip to split. I had them both for around an hour and a half. No Russian or Thai girls back in those days. Just the most beautiful women in Asia, Korean women. As you know it was legal for GI’s to hire lady’s of the night then. I was extremely lucky. Was the only soldier in my platoon that did not contract some sort of VD.

nice post

TY, I have many more stories of deviant and sexual exploits in the ROK. No regrets, I met my wife of 32 years there.

Wow things have really changed since ’74-’76 when I graced those streets. My favorite hang out with John McComas was in Seoul called the Heart to Heart Club, I think I still own the owner my tab. That place was awsome.

I cant belive thats the same place I was back in 1968.Camp Casy was all 7th. Inf.Div.
The streets were all dirt roads with running water on each side ( open sewers ).Soon as you went out the main gate and crossed the street ( which was only paved for 1/2 mile in each direction ) you would cross the railroad tracks and 3 to 6 girls would grab your hand and try pulling you to their hootch for a “short time” for a $1.Once past that obstacle,you might stop at the first club in the ville,the Bayonet club.Have an OB beer,listen to Jose felecieano,sing ligt my fire,the doors and the rolling stones.Then roll on down the street to your favorite club.
But hey guys,what happened in Korea,stayed in Korea.

xx

#25 Fred: What stayed in Korea was quite a few of retired guys from the military and stayed there. Some that did not retire, got out and got jobs there so they could stay. Then there are others that did not stay but took a piece of Korea with them such as I did, the lovely and gracious Mrs Fisher. We go back often to visit. I wonder how many guys lay in bed thinking of the great fun they had. Wishing they were pro-active in their decision making process. It does not take a decision to leave Korea or ETS from the Army, the conveyor belt automatically does that when your date comes up.

I flew UH-1′s out of H-220 (Camp Mobile) in 1987, B Co 2nd Avn. 2nd S & T had the Camp then, we were behind the Hot dog stand just inside Casey gate. Flew the AH-1 with 5/17 Cav out of Camp Mobile in 91/92. God the place looks bad, it used to flood every monsoon season and stink even worse than usual. Peace Club story from 1992. Place was laid back had a few whores hanging out in it that used to work the New York club back during my first tour. Anyway, some Korean TV channel news crew from Seoul was out doing some kind of expose on American GI clubs in the ville. They walked in the door of the Peace Club with the bright camera lights on and were immediatly thrown right back out in the alley by Miss Lee and some of her girls, holding their hands up to cover their faces the whole time while yelling Geseki-ya,Shibal-nam and some words I hadnt heard yet even after 2 tours. I was just walking by, on my way to the T-club and at the time sober to boot, but it was funny as hell. My wife is going back to Korea this October, I sure wish I could go with her but I have a broken ankle and can barely walk, plus a 15 year old who needs close supervision. She probably wouldn’t let me go to TDC any way, not by myself. Club JJ sure looks like the New Korea Club. Any chance of a photo tour of Toko-ri, Hooker hill or Stanley Ville?

Rich, you ask and you shall receive. The following link should give you plenty of material to read that you will find of interest:

Archive of ROK Drop’s “A Profile” Series

oh man this brings back memories. was with the MP’s from 2004-2007 here. I remember the king club and mustang club the most. mustang for the crowd/music and king for the girls

man, i did some major damage in ’08….up club- and limbo…had a girl who would cook me food and pay for the room on her days off…never paid for them….had an awesome time and would do it again….

There wasn’t one square inch of pavement or sidewalks when I was there 1967-68. Of course none of old TDC remains either, except maybe the Rendezvous Club. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn there’s now indoor plumbing…just kidding! I understand now that GIs can’t even pay a rice bill, the girls that work in the clubs aren’t Korean, probably no more VD card requirement for the girls in the clubs. I remember going to the field near Yongjugol and a bus would stop at night and half of the gals from TDC would get off and pay us a visit. And now there’re female soldiers stationed at Casey. What the heck do they do in TDC? There were the chop houses, the pawn shops, the opium dens, and 20 people hanging off the outside of the kimchee busses. No more Sgt Peppers playing from the speakers outside the clubs. Only Korean booze, cigarettes and money in the village. Everything US was contraband. And you better be back on base by midnight or your pass would get pulled. My mamasan, her girls, and the hootches with paper-thin walls. Only EM were allowed in TDC. Days of old!

After the flood the Rendezvous is now a bear, vacant lot. They say they are going to rebuild but I’ve yet to see much happen.

Cmt 32: Opium Dens???? You have got to be kidding. I was in
Korea on off and on for seven years, 64′ thru 88′. Other than
the that I concur with your comments. Would like to know if
anyone else was aware of any “opium dens”.

Semi kidding. The opium den was what we referred to as the place where you’d sit on the bare floor and a mamasan would walk around handing out joints. It was pot, not opium, but we knew it as the “opium den” in 1968. It was down an alley on the opposite side of the street from the Rendezvous. I only went there once, so it could have been a very temporary location.

#35′: That makes sense! Thanks for the clarification. I miss
Korea, anyway the Korea of the period you mentioned. I go back
often but those times were much more fun for a GI than they
are now—-in my opinion.

Wow what a HUGE change! Trains! I was in the 2nd MP Co in 79-80, when we had curfew (midnight) because of martial law. Seems like a lifetime ago, and still have vivid memories. i had a few flannel shirts Tailor made in the Ville. I swear I had them until 1990, when I mistakingly left them at a friends house. they still looked almost new too. I was in the platoon that patrolled the Vill at night. Hated it> Too many super wannabee cops I worked with. Fights every damn night, guys OD’ing on Scotie yellows etc..But OH how I miss my 13 fiancess lol. Good times. Would love to take my family to Korea some day, I turned them on to the food and as yound kids they loved it and we still eat it. Good places in NY. Glad to see TDC was modernized. I was there when someone who was angry at an MP tossed a grenade into the PMO on Xmas. Hurt a bunch of people luckily noone was killed. Like I said crazy times. Nice site glad I saw it

JACK#37: Korea is a mecca for tourist these days. You and your
family would have the time of your life there. You can book
tours thru the USO regardless of being retired military or
not. Go onto the USO website. Big bang for your buck in my
opinion. I was recently there (May/Jun). You will be amazed
at the Korea of today, I am sure of it. I was at Cp Pelham
during the time you were there. GO FOR IT.

I’m really glad I found this site and the pictures. I was station at Camp Castle in ’92-93 but haven’t been back. Fun to go down memory lane. Thanks.

There is only one club name that has survived my 1967-68 tour of duty: The Rendezvous Club. That’s it. Back then the ville was ugly and it smelled bad, but it sure had character. I went home on a mid-tour 30 day leave and came back early. Couldn’t wait to get back to the diesel stoves, the mud streets, and the behind-the-beaded-curtain chops shops that served yakimandu and Oscar champagne in TDC.

#40; Could not agree with you more! I had four tours of duty over there. When I got my orders each time, I put in for 30 days leave and made a B-line for the airport and signed up for “duty standby”at Travis AFB so I could arrive there a month before my scheduled reporting in date.

I can’t believe Las Vegas and Silver Star are still around. Do they still have the Silver Star Outlaws? I think Bar 37 used to be The Oasis Club, used to have bbq’s up on the top of that place all the time in the early 90′s. Anyone remember Studio 54?

Are there any bars or places to hang out in Bosan that aren’t full of 19 year old idiots looking for fights and prostitutes? I’m tried of dealing with them and just want a place to go after I get off duty.

  1. Yes! Try http://www.facebook.com/imjinpub

I spent many a night in the Dragon Club back in ’87. The ville sure looks much cleaner now than it did back then. Hard to belive that is the same TDC I used to go to.

any of u do knows about shella n roxanne at the king club–?

it was 2007 n 2008–with any photos of them,

Nice to see these photos again. I guess I got it again in email due to somebody’s post. The village was known as TDC, or Tongduchon, when I was there in 1967. There was no Dongducheon or Bosan-dong. All streets and allys were dirt. There was no pavement anywhere. Everything looked like it was on the verge of collapse. During the winter, the clubs were boarded up when the temps were too cold to be outside. Leaving Casey on pass, there were so many girls on each side of the walkway from the MP hootch that we felt like we were on parade. If you got too close, they’d tear your clothes off. There were hundreds of working gals in TDC. No such thing as a “juicy girl” back then. The girls were called “business girls” and could work in the clubs if they had a VD card, otherwise they had to stay outside. There were no Russian or Filipino girls in TDC- all were Korean. All GIs were male, and no officers were allowed on pass with enlisted personnel. There was a midnight cerfew and no civilian clothes were allowed. US currency was considered contraband. Possession of such was a punishable offense. Some TDC clubs had Korean bands that tried to emulate popular bands. American music played in the streets (Beatles, Union Gap, Lemon Pipers, etc.). There were no restaurants, there were only chop houses- a couple of tables behind a beaded curtain in a pawn shop. TDC was just a few years away from the Korean War in 1967, but it was the greatest and I miss it still, these 45 years later. RIP TDC.

John: Actually Tongduchon and TDC, and Dongducheon are all the same thing. But Dongducheon is the “modern” spelling. In Korean and Chinese: 동두천 東豆川.

An interesting tidbit – it means “East Bean Creek.”

TDC has evolved in many ways over the years. It’s not the same place I remember, and certainly all changes are for the better. Renaming TDC to Dongducheon is a modern touch, similar to replacing the Korean business gals with Filipino and Russian juicy girls. That too will pass. During my day, the effort was to get the GI’s money any way possible. It’s good to see the Koreans in Dongducheon are willing to spend some of it now to upgrade the city. I’m sure that is necessary for the day to come when Dongducheon is no longer a US Army camp town.

Back in the late seventy’s early 80’s my mother-in-law which is 92 now was a prominent Bosan-Dong woman group leader and own a few properties around the area back then. What a novelty I was; being a black guy married to one of the local citizen daughter. Ladies would drop by to talk to my mother in-law about this and that unexpectedly meet me. I was surprise to find out a number of these elderly woman had daughters married to GI’s and would return with pictures of their daughter who was married to GI’s accompany with address’s that they wanted to know about. I remember going down to the local book store and buying a map of the united states to better explain the where abouts of where their daughter was station or located in the US. Oh I became acquainted with my present wife while over at my buddy and his yobo hooch. My wife at the time was known as ajuma daughter would drop by to collect rent or just to chi chat with the girls that live in this complex. One day my friend yobo told me that ajuma daughter liked me so I took advantage of the situation and the rest is history. I remember a strange occurrence that happened when my house boy Mr. Kim told me he got a call from some man that wanted to know if I was married and where I was from back in the states and what I was I like. To this day I have never found out who called my houseboy asking about my personal Life. I think it was my mother- in-law. Reason is I have looked at pictures in my wife family album of her mother standing with 3 star Korean general, TDC mayor, Bosan-Dong Rep, polices chief and other prominent figure in the local area. 10 or 15 years ago I could walk around Bo-san Dong and old ladies would asked me how’s was my mother in-law was doing and had no ideal who this person might have been.
My wife explain to me any foreigner walking around would be notice and talk about. In my case so many elderly ladies had been to the house and have not forgotten me I was told. Another thing that really intrigued me on many occasions that I was privet to was how surprise Korean where when they notice how poor American soldiers where, coming from a rich nation like American. I was present at my mother in-law house when I was filling out some paper work to go to Seoul to get married consequently my mother in-law ask what is the state of black peoples in America because she had heard so many bad stories about black people treatment in America, are the white soldier more richer than black one, the man replied not necessary the soldiers they all pretty much the same coming from poor families because America do not have a draft, they join the military for a better life, to travel what ever. they have no health care and it cost a lot of money to go to school and that in general America white people are wealthier than blacks. He then looked at me and said is that true…..mother in-law replied so how can America help us when it does not help it’s own peoples. It is really funny to Korean when they see poor American can’t pay their rent. etc. with their military being so big and shiny and their peoples are so poor and needy

#51: Enjoyed your post, thanks. I do however want to know if
you comments about the “poor” in the USA refer to now or at an
earlier period. The so called poor in the US would be considered rich in other countries. Not one person in the USA ever dies from hunger. I that was to happen the socialist
would have it on the news for weeks, especially NBC. As a mailman for 19 years and having delivered in the projects up until 2007, I can assure you they all have TV’s cell phones, cars, and are well fed, compliments of the tax payers. Hot and cold running water and clothing albeit not what many outside of that environment to be considered tasteful. Their circumstances are not due in most part tobad luck or bias towards them. If you can not speak the English language properly, do not finish high school, have a criminal
juvenile or adult record, or in the case of girls have babies
with “sperm donors (not fathers), are in the 4th generation
of being programed to live off the government tit, you are doomed to never being able to “be all you can be”. You can not join the military (I was an Recruiter), few employers would ever higher you in a decent paying job with potential. They become comfortable on the “dole”. Evil shit when you consider it. The nanny state locks them into that situation. Why get a job and behave yourself when the total of handouts, housing, food, medical is provided which turns out to be about $20-30@hour. Beats whatever they would make working
on the only type of work they could get. The deaths in those
projects is outrageous. Blacks are 13% of the population and
over 50% of the prison population.

Did you stay in Army? Great move if you did. Great move to have married an Asian–in my opinion. Are you still with her?

BOSANG-DONG KYONGGIDO KOREA: 2 guys from my platoon married and stayed in TDC after their ETS in 1968. My house boy was named Kim also, but I know there were many. What unit were you from?

BOSANG-DONG KYONGGIDO KOREA: Since you did not answer my question, I suspect that you are not who/what you say you are. The Korean people laugh at the shiny US military that protects them from NK? You should know that we are there to protect the people, not to take care of them. I was there in the 60s when the MSR was dirt, the people lived in huts made of straw and mud and the children ran around dirty and naked. The people were impoverished. The smell in the air was a combination of kimchi and open sewers. The lowliest GI had more money than anyone in TDC, with the exception of the mamasans. All the girls in the clubs were Korean business girls, and the blacks (you claim to be black) were not welcomed by Koreans south of Camp Casey’s main gate. The Korean people were dirt poor but they had their gleaming ROK Army. I remember a sign hanging in a TDC shop window that read “If the 8th Army has it, we can get it”. That’s how TDC survived. Slicky boys and prostitutes. They had no viable industry. The air was full of coal dust. It was the most impoverished place I had ever seen. If you drove into the largest city, their capitol, Seoul, you saw people openly urinating on the streets. Now the people have industry. The Hyundai. Big deal. The rice paddies have been replaced by condominiums. I’ve seen the videos online. Tongduchon is now Dongducheon. It’s been given a face list. The old clubs no longer exist. The Korean business gals have been replaced by Russian and Filipina juicy girls, but guys like me who were there in the 60s will never forget what it used to be like. The Korean people today should be thankful for what they got from the US, but instead they have the nerve to laugh? At what? Don’t they know their brothers from the north have nuclear weapons aimed at them?

John#54: I was stationed in Korea in 64′(1st of 4 tour, I am very surprised that you know of two guys that ETS’d from the Army and stayed in Korea. The Army would never give a soldier discharge papers and let him choose to walk out the front gate. Everyone is put on a plane to CONUS in those days. Sounds dubious to me. The military in those days,
especially in the TDC area, had nothing regarding US contractors etc. A person can’t reside in Korea legally without being in that status or recruited by a Korean company of someone located in the states. I am curious to know if any other ROKDrop bloggers have a different take on this point.
I also think you are wrong in saying that #51 is not black.
What is that all about? The blacks were not viewed in a negative way, at least not overtly outside of the TDC area in
my opinion. Their money was wanted as well as any ones. Korea IS a big deal now in technology, electronics innovations, top rated vehicles, they are all over the middle east constructing buildings that will defy the imagination. Their Airport is considered the best in the world
I read somewhere. Get the Dec 2011 issue of Nat. Geographic
and check it out (I think that is the issue). In my opinion you are also mistaken about the nukes pointed at S. Korea
They are developing them to be sure but not to drop them on
the south. Why in the hell would they do that on a small peninsula they share and wipe themselves out too.

Wow, that brought back so serious memories. I hung at Cheers and Peace Clubs mostly and occasionally went down to Togather. Good times.

wow impressed cleaned up a lot/2nd engr bn,camp castle back when qhonsen huts,84-86,married wife died 97,kids 17 an 22,retired 2002,back in 1999,stuck uijonbue visted tdc ,seen old mr an mrs park houseboys,cant believe rendevous silverstar an some clubs still there,way many great memories,tanker ahjiema ramen lady in the field,Rich ur not the (huey pilot )stabbed me silver star 85 are you,ha ha,over chick in silver star with a beer bottle,little blood not hurt kept drinking another bar,cant keep a good combat engr down lol all good,good thing about tdc,even when ya just met back then still bonded,even though didnt know each other met at club partying,wow miss the times an memories married yong ye yun,paul friediborns girlfriend but he was married anyway ha ha,beautiful great hearted sexy women,good to me whole life till she died,THX PICS AN MEMORIES GUYS STAY ALIVE BEAT THE SYSTEM!

YEA JOHN,THEY HAD TO GO STATESIDE AN COME BACK IF WANTED TO STAY,BUT ACTIVE COULD KEEP EXTENDING I DID,THERE 99 BUNCH OF CIVILIANS EVERYWHERE LIVING NOW,WORKING ETC,I WAS STILL ACTIVE DUTY THEN TOO,64?WOW JOHN YOU HAD GOOD TIMES,CHEAP THEN IM SURE EVRYTHING BEER INCLUDED LOL

Although it has been 35yrs since I served with 1st 23/Inf Camp Hovey. After taken the bus ride to Casey for a pass, It seem so change for the future. Thanks for the good old memories of TDC………Can’t hold back the tears….again thanks……. SGT Armstrong A/Company 2nd Plt Camp Hovey 1975-1977………

Skip Hadsock response to 357

Couldn’t have been me Skip, I was at Ft Lost in the Woods in 1985, besides, I spent my Saturday afternoons and Sundays off taking MWR tours, learning Korean culture etc,etc. Not stabing fellow GI’s in the Country music club in Bosan-dong, some other guy from B co. 2nd AVN.

#51 is obviously a fake. Probably a norK trying to make a stir. It’s clear from the grammar that English is NOT the author’s first language.

I was station at Camp Castle from 81-82, 30 years ago, which was down the road from Casey. All I can say about these photos is WOW! The place has change a lot. Wish I had more photos of Castle and the ville from the time frame I was there.

My husband is stationed here at the moment, well, for the next two years. And pretty much everyone either goes to Rendevouz if you like dancing and rap music or the sportsmen for live rock band with a hot chick lead singer. So far I really like it!

Chelsea: Great “PMA” (positive mental attitude). Hope you take
advantage of the USO tours to really get an appreciation of what
Korea is like outside of the military environment if you have not
yet done so. Make sure you buy a point and shoot camera that can
go in your pocket. You will look back in retrospect and wish you
had later in life if you do not!!!

I was a plt ldr in the 1/17th Inf Bn (The Buffaloes) in 85-86. Man what a great tour. Loved partying in TDC. Yeah, I remember the Rendezvous. Obviously has had a face lift in the past 27 years… The Ville is very new and shiny looking compared to sleeze of the mid-80s…

I remember The Liberty Club, The Newhouse Club (across the tracks), The New York Club (the girls all wore evening gowns and two LTs from my Bn married girls from there), Club 54 (my favorite), and Mom’s Place (a little hole in the wall where my Bn hung out). Elysium Joy and Harley Rock n Roll (maybe the “Harley Club” in the pic above?) were little dive bars. I forget the name of the country-western shit kicker bar back then.

There were a couple of other bars on an alley over by Casey, across the main drag from “the ville” (aka “downrange” as we called it)… that stayed open later after the ville bars closed. One was The Log Cabin… I got hammered there with MG Gary Luck, our Div commander one night. Good dude, drank in the Club 57 one night and bought a round for my platoon… we were on a Thunder Run.

Good memories of my tour and real nostalgia for the mid 80s … wish I could do it again. When I was still in the Army and Guard I really wanted a return tour there… Still would like to visit but looking at these pics it’s like it’s a whole new town… In my mind the place has never changed, not sure I’d want to change that…

hello we live here right now and we i just want to map the shortest way from Jihaeng trainstation to the camp hovey gate. Does anyone know the street or landmark?? Thanks in advance.
Btw love it here, cant wait to try various different food and travel a lot.

hey you forgot to show a photo of the best breakfast restaurant in all of South Korea thats in the ville named Chongs Breakfast House. Is there a way to get photos of the ville now after the flood

I was in B Btry 1/31 Arty from 68-70 at Casey. Does anyone remember Pop Lee? He had a store/pawn shop right as you entered the ville after going over the train tracks. He could get you about anything you’d ever want.

John Chanik, #48: Sounds like you and I had the same experiences and the same memories of what it was like back then. Some of the pictures I have of the villages in the countryside look like they could have been taken in 1868 instead of 1968. Thatched roofs, rice paddies being plowed with oxen, old men carrying huge loads on A-frames. All gone, but not forgotten.

great photos. I served 4 tours.

A co 1/23 Nov 77 – Nov 78 (Cp Hovey)
B co 1/38 Dec 79 – Dec 82 (Cp Hovey)
HHC 2X NCOA Jun 84 – Sep 86 Btw Hovey and Casey)
DISCOM May 89 – May 92 (Cp Casey)

hard but good times all tours.

ed wrote:

B Co 1/38 Dec 79 – Dec 82 (Cp Hovey)

Was your company commander toward the end of this tour George Filbeck? George is now a civilian working at Yongsan.

thank you for nice picture ,,, i am iranian and i love tongdu chon city.
thank’s a lot

The only club I saw that was there in 74 75 was The Rendezvous Club. Does anybody know what happened to the Savoy Club or the New Korea Club that was next door to it?

TDC good time 1968

john you are in 1968 year book you drove a jeep

WHAT HAPPENED IN KOREA, STAYED IN KOREA EVEN THE SLANT EYE WHORES IN THE HOMES WITH SLIDING DOORS. 90% OF KOREANS MARRIED TO SOLDIERS IN KOREA WERE BUSINESS GIRLS (PROSTITUTES). ITS SO STRANGE THAT WHEN YOU ASK A SOLDIER IN THE U.S HOW HE MET HIS WIFE HE WILL SAY IN A BUS, A KOREAN SOLDIERS SISTER OR A KATUSA’S SISTER. MOST OF THE GIRLS I MET AT BARS IN KOREA, I MET AGAIN IN TEXAS , FT BRAGG , CALIFORNIA AND THEY WERE STILL DOING THEIR THING BEHIND HUBBY’S BACK. 30% OR MORE END UP DIVORCING THEIR HUSBANDS HERE IN THE U.S FOR SOMEONE WITH MORE RANK OR A GREAT PROFESSION. I REMEMBER MY NBC NCO HAD A FINE GIRL AND I WENT OUT WITH HER WHILE HE WAS IN THE FIELD AND IT WAS LIKE HEAVEN ESPECIALLY IT WAS MONSOON SEASON, WE MADE LOVE IN THAT HOOCH LIKE ROMANTIC PORNSTARS. I GOT CAUGHT WITH HER BY ANOTHER NCO HE TOLD THE COMMANDER WE BOTH DENIED IT, I GOT TRANSFERED TO INSTRUCT A RAPPELLING COURSE IN CHE-JU ISLAND. TDY . YOU FK UP YOU MOVE UP. HE STILL ENDED UP MARRYING HER. I GOT WITH HER AGAIN AND WHEN THEY CAME TO THE U.S HE WENT TO gERMANY FOR REFORGER AND GUESS WHO SPENT A MONTH WITH HER , YESSIR. AND AFTER 2 YEARS OF MARRIAGE SHE DIVORCED HIM AND MARRIED A DOCTOR ( OLDER SURGEON) AND GUESS WHO STILL GIVES HER THE LOVE INJECTIONS AND GREAT MEMORIES AND DRIVES HER IN THAT A SHE BOUGHT ME. THANK YOU JOHNNIE FROM JOHNNIE’S BAR FOR THIS ENCOUNTER. THE BIGGEST BOSS IN TDC, I WAS THERE 1979 TO 1983

SNIPER wrote:

MOST OF THE GIRLS I MET AT BARS IN KOREA, I MET AGAIN IN TEXAS , FT BRAGG , CALIFORNIA

You have a very vivid imagination.

Guitard: I think this guy Sniper went on this same rant a year or two
ago under another name. Bizarre.

I WAS IN KOREA 1963-1967 WITH THE ASA LOCATED IN CAMP CASEY. TODAYS PICTURES I LOOKED AT ARE A LOT DIFFERENT. I WAS A VILLAGE RAT FROM DAY ONE UNTIL THE DAY I LEFT. ENJOYED EVERY MINUTE OF IT. MY FAVORITE VILL CLUBS WAS THE NEW YORK AND SEOUL CLUB.

So, hadn’t been to TDC in about 20 years, went out to the Mustang Club, bought a few beers, came home early. My buddy that stayed there to get accosted to buy girls drinks, which he respectfully declined, decided to put his drinks on his credit card. He legitimately had about 30 dollars worth of drinks. He called American Express this morning, and they had his 30 dollar charge, and two more charges for 85, and a charge for 190. So, from what I can tell, I would steer clear of using a credit/debit card to pay for drinks at any of these bars… Cash only.

@79- Yes that is the general rule of thumb is to not use your credit card at those clubs in the ville. I have heard of many people getting ripped off that way.

What a change, 7th inf div medic.67-68 9mo Casey 6mo z

I was stationed at Camp Mobile back in 1994-1996 when it housed the Aviation Unit. At the time it was the most forward aviation unit to the DMZ. After I left it became the “turtle Farm”.

I never went to Toka-ri, but I spent MANY hours at the Las Vegas Club and the Silver Star club. We had a club gang called the Las Vegas Gamblers and we hung out and drank all night. We wore jean jackets with a patch of the dead mans hand on the back. I have very fond memories of walking round TDC Ville eating Yaki Mandu and going on Thunder Runs. I don’t remember many Juicey Girls back the to be honest, but an ajima named The Sergeant Major would always ask us if “we wanted lady, come lets go see”. If you said no, she bought you a soju shot and tried to convince you further.

The noodle shops over near the mink blanket shops and the guitar store across the entrance to Camp Mobile were awesome. I’d kill for a chicken cheese ramen from a place that was called OB’s Cabin.

Fond fond memories of the Ville man, so glad I found your site.

Thanx for the great pix & captions. I visited TDC ville many times in 1972. This brings back so many fond & nostalgic memories I can’t believe it. Maybe someday I’ll get back. I was trying to remember the names of some of the clubs & this refreshed my memory of several. Fun to see Miss Oh Shop as I made friends with a cute round-faced Miss Oh in ’72 who worked as a waitress @ the Long Beach Tea House on the edge of the TDC ville and wondering if & hoping it could be the same Miss Oh?

Well I’ll be damn they cleaned up TDC was there 79 – 81 had a blast. Was stationed at camp Hovey 1/38th b. co

loved every minute of it . Loved tok ki ri had plenty of women all over korea. only caught clap once. Brought lots

of clothes and shoes drank hard played hard and humped the yamma’s the next day good good times what I

Iwould give to be at pops store or the black rose

Hey any one out there from 1/38th B.CO 2nd pltn give me a shout out 1979 nov DMZ trip

I was there in 1966.
HQ HQ Co, 7th Inf Div. Train Fire Committee. I was an assistant instructor on the record fire rifle range out the back gate. I worked firing point number 7, it was 110 steps up to it. Point 8 was 179 steps if I remember correctly. Williams was the A.I. on 8.
Davis on number 6. Wish I could find them.
TDC is not recognizable to me in those photos. It was all MUD and sewage when I was there. I liked the Rendevous and Crown club.
Bob

Everything is new to me since 87-88 and i cant even oriented myself where everything is. all i remember crossing the railroad track and hang out on the club across it and studio54 located in the very end. i sometimes go to toki-re but then everything is nice since is closer to my barracks. used to remember mamasan could lend you money until payday with little interest. we dont have bank then with get our paycheck cash thru payroll officers that come around. How About turtle Ditch. when i got there in process 1/23 changing to 1/503rd and when my tour is half way we have ltc Mayes which became the cnn corrrespondent. miss the old day but i am glad i was station there . but is not as crazy as others eperience and now called TDC Ville?

Wow. Your posts bring back memories. I was stationed at Casey in 1991-92, and went back as a civilian from 1994-99. I knew Mr. Han. He wasn’t the “mob guy” people thought he was. But he could hold his own. I knew he died of a heart attack, but he was a serious runner….. I used to live in Cheers, and spent the night on Mrs. Yuns sofa many times. Good People

I think I was born in Bosan-Dong (Bosan-Ri at the time) in 1961. I wonder if anyone can recognize where the picture in my blog was taken. http://usdalton.blog.com/

I shared the link to this great post to FB, 2 Groups, Korean defense veterans and also Camp Casey Group, thanks for your post, sure it will bring back a lot of memories for some, and for some how the place has indeed changed, depending when they were there last.

At C1/9 Inf Hovey 77 to 78, nothing like the photos I see now of Toko-ri and TDC. Cannot remember a building in Toko-ri that was two storied. Shacks everywhere. Like the fellow said before no credit cards, no computers, no cell phones. Straight leg infantry. I kinda liked the place at 18 and 19 years old for the women. After leaving there and going to Campbell 2 different times there really wasn’t a lot of different off post except in Korea everything was on foot and close, everybody out for a buck on the GIs back epically at Campbell,retired first sergeants and sergeant majors renting out those dumpy trailers along 41A for $4oo plus a month, most likely at $1ooo now.I felt then during the peacetime Army when something was going on and rumors of us deploying going around that the community got all concerned not for us but for losing that money, not a lot of different if you ask me.

#91, the only people who give a CRAP about our GI’s are those who are directly affected (family, etc).
The Politicians of either party sure as he11 don’t care.
They are all FOR sending our guys into HARMS way but be sure you don’t “hurt anybody” or cause any “collateral damage”. You are supposed to DIE first!
I wonder how this idiots can sleep at night knowing they are sending some one into harms way and they have NO intention of WINNING!
We haven’t learned a dam*ed thing since Vietnam!!
The only thing the politicians do well is “snatch defeat from the jaws of victory that our soldiers had won”

You got that right about the only people that gives a crap are your own and unfortunately there are a few and I really believe very few of them will stick it to you.Mostly the Politicians are corrupt self serving bunch from the smallest hick town to the top, makes my blood boil thinking of the mostly poor Vietnam soldiers that didn’t have a choice and the crap they went thru while the good ole boy system clicked along, a couple years older and I would’ve told you all about Vietnam. During my 9 years of service had plenty of Vietnam vets as platoon and first sergeants during their tour they were a damn if you did and damn if you didn’t bunch. Wish that today’s soldiers could be allowed to complete their mission and go home.

I was there in 84 and 85. Photos are amazing….. I recognize NOTHING. I loved the ville. Partied my @$$ off. It was the land of $10 short times and $20 long times, cheap beer and very cheap soju. They were trying to raise the prices to $20 and $30 towards the end of my tour. We were constantly berating the turtles to not fall for that s*** and stick to $10 and $20. Stupid turtles were wrecking the economy. (And whats up with women from other countries?!?! When I was there it was all Korean girls.)

I was fortunate enough to spend most of my tour TDY which only put me at Casey on weekends. That enabled me to get out of most of the 2nd ID Army BS yet still be there on the weekends to enjoy the ville.

While I had unbelievable fun, ridiculously unsupervised (Army wise) freedom, during my weekly TDY travels, and met some great people, saw some cool places and had some truly awesome times, nothing was as wide open as good ol’ TDC. I was always anxious to get back there every Friday just because of the upcoming partying! Actually wide open doesn’t really fully describe TDC. It was a young mans paradise. Always wanted to get back there…. never did.

Don’t recognize anything anymore. Was in the 1/17th CS company at Casey 82-83 (now long gone). Loved the ville. It was the most awesome place for an 18-19 year old man to feel his oats. Soju, OB Beer and business girls. Hung at the Lucky Club (hottest girls at the time) and a couple of the metal bars that had about 6 tables and floor to ceiling speakers. Anyone remember the top ten VD sign as you left the gate? BJ Alley was always at the top of the list! Had the time of my life there. Couldn’t wait to leave and go back to The World (still have my short timers calendar), but I still remember that place as probably the best time I ever had.

Would love to go back someday to take it all in again

Hell yah TDC was a single mans paradse, provided you wrapped your winky. I was ther from 9/86 till 2/88 with 122nd signal @casey. I recognized very little, the first club on the strip was then called the lucky club. Usually # fuc### hana on the VD list. Me and my crue usually hung @ the Starz club, because they didn’t have girls. Just unlimited Heavy metal music, the place really rocked. It must be gone, I did’t see it in any of the pics. Too bad! I always wanted to get back.

[…] activities and food.  This year, I decided to check out Camp Casey’s festivities in Dongducheon since it was the closest venue to where I live now.  Out of my close to 9 years in Korea so far, I […]

Yes the 79-80-81 period was interesting From Tac Squad Patrolling the village to manning the gate to the trips to see the sights, It was a time for us to grow, lets see the night the soldier threw the Grenade into the Pmo i think I was working on the blotter, lucky we were above the blast area and had some protection the concussion was a bit rough, now when white went for a walk to north korea that was interesting, oh the change of uniforms was during that time to the new camo style, I traded a set of Greens for a new set of camos with a new recruit, making beds , washing your clothes Ironing polishing your boots, nope we had Barny to do that and he charged so little, we know a inspection was going to happen if our uniforms were hanging out, Roy and sweed and me would head out and have fun, now i hope that brought back a few memories.

 

A Profile of the Western Korean Demilitarized Zone

| August 16, 2010

Introduction

The Korean Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) was established with the signing of the armistice agreement that ended the Korean War on July 27, 1953.  It was agreed upon that the DMZ would separated the two Koreas by creating a buffer zone four kilometers wide across the width of the 151 mile wide Korean peninsula.  This buffer zone would be created in roughly the same positions that the warring parties had ended the conflict at.  The Military Demarcation Line (MDL) would be the official border between the two countries while the two kilometers of the buffer zone to the north of the MDL would be monitored by North Korea while the two kilometers of the buffer zone of the south of the MDL would be monitored by South Korea.  It was further agreed upon that no opposing force would enter the territory, air space, or contiguous waters under the control of the other country.

DMZ image

The United States military used to monitor the area of the DMZ north of the Imjim River with the 2nd Infantry Division as well as along the Chorwon corridor with the 7th Infantry Division.  The 7th Infantry Division with redeployed in Korea in the 1970’s leaving the 2nd Infantry Division to continue their monitoring of the DMZ north of the Imjim River.  The 2nd Infantry Division ultimately gave up the sole responsibility of monitoring the DMZ north of the Imjim River in the 1980’s and has now handed over all responsibilities for monitoring the demilitarized zone to the Korean Army.  Besides the monitoring of the DMZ by the ROK Army a small contingent of civil police authorized by the armistice man 114 guard posts that monitor activity on the DMZ.  The DMZ Civil Police also man two guard posts that overlook the Neutral Nations Supervisory Commission (NNSC) housed at the Swiss/Swedish Camp, the Joint Security Area (JSA), and Tae Song Dong.

Military Armistice Commission

The Military Armistice Commission (MAC) was formed to be a body that would have the responsibility to negotiate any violations of the Armistice Agreement.  This job was increasingly important over the years as the North Koreans have repeatedly violated the Armistice.  From 1953 to 1994 the MAC was composed of a UNC component and a North Korean/Chinese component. Each component is comprised of five senior officers.  Three of the officers must be the rank of general or a flag officer of some kind.  The two remaining officers must be at least a colonel.  During an official MAC meeting only the senior officer on each side can speak.  The meetings are held inside one of the blue UN buildings situated on the MDL at the Joint Security Area at Panmunjom.

Image of a MAC meeting in 1990 via Wikipedia.

Anything spoken during these MAC meetings must be read in three languages, English, Korean and Chinese.  The meetings also follow very strict guidelines, which further makes the meetings proceed at an extremely slow pace.  The last official MAC meeting was held in 1991.  Since then the North Koreans have refused to participate in an official MAC meeting because a South Korean general was appointed as the senior member of the UNC component.  In 1994 in violation of the Armistice the North Koreans withdrew from the MAC altogether.

The United Nations Command Military Advisory Committee (UNCMAC) Secretariat is responsible for ensuring that United Nations Command (UNC) units comply with the 1953 armistice.  The UNCMAC is responsible for investigating and reporting on any violation of the armistice on either side of the DMZ.  Military personnel from either side of the border are not authorized to cross the MDL.  Only the NNSC and a small number UNCMAC personnel are authorized to cross the MDL on certain occasions.   The UNCMAC is also responsible for providing translators as well as scheduling official MAC meetings.

Image via Flickr user Morning Calm Weekly.

However, with the withdrawal of the North Koreans from the MAC in 1994 the UNCMAC has shifted from its primary administrative role to being the main channel of communication between the two sides.  The UNCMAC Secretariat meetings held between the two sides which is supposed to be for administrative reasons has now turn into quasi MAC meetings with the secretariats now discussing things such as Armistice violations, the transfer of detained personnel, as well as the return of remains of deceased personnel on each side.

Neutral Nations Supervisory Commission

The Neutral Nations Supervisory Commission (NNSC) was established by the Armistice Agreement as an independent, fact-finding body outside of the MAC, but responsible for reporting to the MAC.  The NNSC is composed of four senior officers from four nations that did not participate in the Korean War.  Each side chooses two of the officers that will compose the NNSC.  Historically officers from Switzerland and Sweden composed the UNC side while officers from Poland and Czechoslovakia formed the North Korean side.

Patches worn by NNSC members via Wikipedia.

The NNSC was originally formed to investigate Armistice violations outside of the DMZ.  This was intended to ensure both sides maintain a military status quo which existed when the ceasefire was signed.  However, North Korea regularly prohibited NNSC teams from investigating in North Korea.  Due to pressure from North Korea Czechoslovakia withdrew from the NNSC in 1993 and Poland withdrew in 1995. The Swiss and Swedish team remains and they continue to meet weekly to discuss reports from the UNC side in regards to Armistice issues.  Despite this, the NNSC’s role on the DMZ is largely ceremonial.

Joint Security Area (JSA)

With the creation of the various bodies to manage the Armistice Agreement an area was needed to conduct the every day business of these bodies.  Thus it was agreed upon that a Joint Security Area (JSA) at the village of Panmunjom where the Armistice negotiations took place, would be created.

The JSA is roughly 800 meters wide and is roughly circular in shape and bisected by the Military Demarcation Line.  The MAC buildings where negotiations and meetings are held in are painted blue and divided down the middle by the MDL.

Via Flickr user Florian Grupp.

Conference tables are set up within the buildings and bisected by the MDL.

Via Flickr user Bas Verbeek.

The JSA also has a building on each side of the MDL that serves as the Joint Duty Office.  Since the senior officers that compose each component of the MAC are based in Seoul for the UNC and in Kaesong for the North Koreans they leave liason officers at all times at the JSA that work out of the Joint Duty Offices.  These JDOs pass messages from the MAC to the secretaries on the other side of the JSA.  Military policemen only are used to guard the JSA.  Each side may only have 35 military policemen on duty in the JSA at one time.  These policemen are also allowed to maintain an administrative area in the JSA.  The NNSC is also allowed to keep an administrative area at the JSA to conduct meetings in as well.

Camp Bonifas

The most forward deployed base in all of United States Forces Korea is Camp Bonifas:

The camp was established after the Korean War to support operations at the Joint Security Area.  Camp Bonifas is located approximately 400 meters south of the JSA and was originally called Camp Kitty Hawk.  The name of the camp was changed after two American officers, Captain Arthur G. Bonifas and First Lieutenant Mark T. Barrett were murdered by North Korean soldiers in the infamous “Axe Murder Incident”.  After the attack the camp was renamed in honor of CPT Bonifas.

Image via the DMZ webpage.

The camp is home to the soldiers of the United Nations Command Security Force.  The Korean and American soldiers that compose this battalion-sized element are responsible for the 24-hour security of the United Nations Command personnel and their guests that are working at or visiting the JSA.

The unit is also responsible for controlling the entry and exit of all vehicle and personnel into the area along with providing security for the Korean civilians that live within the Tae Song Dong farming village (Freedom Village) that lies within the DMZ.  Finally the soldiers are also responsible for conducting tours of the JSA for both civilians and military personnel.  The tours are available in English, Japanese, Chinese, and Korean.  Roughly 100,000 people conduct a tour of the JSA annually.  If you live in Korea and have not done one of these tours I highly recommend you do so.  Probably the most unusual aspect of Camp Bonifas is that it is home to what is called the “world’s most dangerous golf course” by Sports Illustrated since the one hole course has minefields around it.

Image via the Back9Network.

Today US and Korean soldiers continue to serve “In Front of Them All” as the battalion’s motto goes.  Even though tensions continue between the two countries, major incidents on the DMZ have greatly diminished in recent years.

Image of Camp Bonifas front gate via Wikipedia.

Camp Greaves

The base with the main combat power to support DMZ operations is Camp Greaves located just to the south of Camp Bonifas on the north side of the Imjim River:

The camp is named after Corporal Clinton Greaves of Company C, 9th U.S. Cavalry, who fought off a band of Apaches in 1879 to save fellow cavalrymen.  Camp Greaves was founded by the 1st Marine Division during the Korean War in 1953. After the war the Marines used the camp as a patrol base to monitor the DMZ from. After Marines left they were replaced by various units over the years to include the 1st Amphibious Tractor Battalion; the 3rd Battalion, 19th Infantry Regiment, 24th Infantry Division; the 1st Squadron, 9th Cavalry, 1st Cavalry Division; and various 2nd Infantry Division battalions.  The last 2ID unit stationed on Camp Greaves was the 1-506 Infantry Regiment.  The 1-506th had been stationed on Camp Greaves since 1987 and their unit motto was “Stands Alone”, which I always found funny considering the thousands of ROK soldiers stationed nearby.  With that said when the 1-506th was stationed in Korea I always found them to be a very high speed and motivated unit whenever I worked with them.  Camp Greaves was closed in 2004 as part of the USFK transformation plan.  After its closure half the camp was handed over to the ROK Army’s 1st Infantry Division and the other half is slated to become a $40 million DMZ theme park that is scheduled to open in 2018.

Image of closed out Camp Greaves via the Stars & Stripes.

After its closure Camp Greaves like other Western Corridor camps has been the subject of protests though the protests around Camp Greaves is different from the left wing environmentalists that have been protesting other camps.  The Camp Greaves protesters are from the Paju area who want the land the camp sits on to be given to the local government for development and not given to the ROK Army.

Warrior Base

Warrior Base is located near the Unification Bridge on the northern side of the DMZ.  The base is used to house range control for the various firing ranges located around the DMZ area in the Western Corridor as well providing tent and barracks housing for units training in the area.

Here is a picture of Warrior Base which I have fond memories of spending nights in the tents there while training on the DMZ:

Image via Army Public Affairs.

Tae Song Dong & Kichong-dong Villages

The DMZ includes two villages authorized by a subsequent agreement to the Armistice that ended the war.  One village is Tae Song Dong (Freedom Village) on the South Korean side and the second village is Kichong-dong (Propaganda Village) on the North Korean side of the DMZ.  Tae Song Dong is located about half a kilometer southwest of the JSA while Kichong is located about a half kilometer northwest of the JSA.  Here is a Google Earth image of Tae Song Dong:

Residency in Tae Song Dong is strictly controlled.  Only original inhabitants of the village or their direct descendants may live in the village.  Kichong-dong on the other hand appears to be a normal village by day with North Koreans working in the fields but at night the workers are bussed to where they live in the nearby city of Kaesong.  Only a small custodial staff actually lives in the village.  Kichong-dong is referred to by UNC soldiers as “Propaganda Village” due to the loud broadcasts of propaganda blasted from speakers in the village over the years.  Here is a Google Earth image of the Propaganda Village:

Here is a a picture of the “Propaganda Village” as seen from the South Korean side of the DMZ:

Image from Flickr user Oren Hadar.

The Bridge of No Return

Located in the Joint Security Area is the Bridge of No Return.  This bridge received this name because in 1953 prisoners of war from the allied nations, the Koreas, and China were given the one time option of returning to their home countries.  When one walked across the bridge they could not return thus giving the bridge its name The Bridge of No Return.

Image of the Bridge of No Return via the DMZ webpage.

Besides being the setting for the swapping of POWs the bridge was also the scene of the Axe Murder Incident on August 18, 1976 that saw two American officers brutally killed by North Korean soldiers while trying to trim a tree.  The murder of these two officers nearly led to war on the peninsula as the US brought in extra ground, air, and naval power to the peninsula to cut down the tree.

Freedom Bridge

Before the Korean War two side by side railway bridges extended across the Imjim River that were used for rail traffic between the then South Korean city of Kaesong and the capitol city of Seoul.  However during the surprise North Korean attack against the Republic of Korea launched on June 25, 1950 the South Korean military failed to destroy the bridges.  The explosives on the bridges had failed to explode and the North Korean military quickly captured the bridges, which greatly aided the speed of their assault south on Seoul. One of the bridges was destroyed in 1951 as the allies marched north against both the North Koreans and the Chinese forces that had entered the war.  The allies were able to successfully capture the last remaining bridge across the Imjim in late 1951.

Freedom Bridge which crossed the Imjim River during the Korean War via Defense Media.

This bridge took on increased importance as peace talks began at the village of Panmunjom just north of the Imjim River.  The bridge was refurbished to handle the increased amount of traffic that flowed back and forth from Panmujom every day.  On February 16, 1952 the refurbishing was complete and the bridge officially became known as Freedom Bridge.  The bridge lived up to its moniker when allied POWs were returned to South Korea after the signing of the Armistice Agreement and they crossed this bridge by ambulance on their return to a reception station set up at Munsan.  This route from Panmunjom across the bridge became known as Liberty Lane afterwards.

Freedom Bridge today.

On June 15, 1998 a four-lane bridge dubbed the Tongil (Unification) Bridge was opened across the Imjim River in response to increased traffic to the north side of the Imjim River.  The opening of the Tongil Bridge has caused Freedom Bridge to be largely unused today, but it still stands as a testament to the days of the Korean War.

Tongil Bridge

Illegal North Korean Tunnels

In the 1970’s North Korean dictator Kim Il-sung ordered his divisions along the Demilitarized Zone to each dig and maintain two tunnels that infiltrated into South Korea.  Evidence of this plan became evident until 1974.  On the morning of November 15, 1974, a ROK Army patrol in the west-central sector of the DMZ noted steam rising from the ground.  They thought they had found evidence of a hot spring and began digging to see if they had indeed found one.

Instead of a hot spring they found a tunnel that was a mere 18 inches below the surface.  While excavating the site the South Korean patrol began to take fire from a North Korean guard post.  The patrol began to return fire back at the North Koreans to cover their retreat away from the area.  Fortunately no one was injured in the exchange of fire.  The South Koreans returned with a larger force to further excavate the site and discovered that the tunnel ran from North Korea and extended one kilometer into South Korea before it was discovered by the patrol.  The tunnel was reinforced with concrete slabs, had electric power, weapons storage, sleeping areas, and even a narrow gauge rail line with carts.  It was believed that the tunnel was big enough to hold one regiment of soldiers at a time which would have allowed the North Koreans to infiltrate an entire division into South Korea in a matter of hours.

Image via DMZ webpage.

On November 20th as a United Nations MAC team investigated the site, an investigation that the North Korean UNCMAC members refused to participate in, a North Korean explosive booby trap went off killing two MAC investigators, US Navy Commander Robert M. Ballinger and ROK Marine Corps Major Kim Hah Chul.  Five more US soldiers and one ROK Army soldier were injured in the blast.  Commander Ballinger was the first US casualty on the DMZ since 1969.  Just a few months later on March 19, 1975 another tunnel was discovered approximately eight miles northeast of Chorwon.  Excavation of the tunnel found that the tunnel was two meters high, less then two meters wide, and about 2,300 meters in length with 1000 meters of the tunnel extending into South Korea.  The North Koreans denied digging the tunnel and claimed the South Koreans dug it themselves.

On October 17, 1978 another tunnel was discovered under the DMZ.  The prior two tunnels had been in relatively isolated locations however this tunnel was different because it was dug only four kilometers from Panmunjom along the main invasion route into South Korea.  Similar to the prior tunnels this tunnel was created with a two by two interior and could have been used to infiltrate thousands of soldiers into South Korea.  Of course the North Koreans denied any knowledge of constructing the tunnel. The fourth North Korean tunnel was discovered on March 3, 1990 northeast of the small city of Yanggu in the remote Punchbowl area of Gangwon province.  Surprisingly a week later the North Koreans actually admitted to constructing the tunnel in order to “facilitate peaceful reunification”.

Picture of entrance to the 4th entrance tunnel via Wikipedia.

Conclusion

I hope everyone enjoyed this profile of the Western section of the Korean Demilitarized Zone.  If you haven’t visited Panmunjom while in South Korea I highly recommend you do so.  It is a fascinating place to see that many US military servicemembers and their ROK counterparts over the years have kept safe for visitors.  Likewise these same servicemembers have helped keep the ROK safe from North Korean provocations and invasions with their service on freedom’s frontier on the Western Korean Demilitarized Zone.

Note: You can read more from the ROK Drop featured series “A Profile of USFK Bases” at the below link:

Comments

Thanks GI. I am going to print this out for a young friend of mine who is interested in the DMZ how the US Army maintains a presence in Korea.

Photos and comments on the most spectacular in the world south korean wall in the DMZ are missing.

Besides several typos (minor issue), I noticed that the description of Camp Bonifas states that the camp is “located approximately 400 meters south of the JSA”. The camp is actually approximately 100 meters from the southern boundary of the DMZ, which since the JSA is in the middle of the 4km wide DMZ, would mean the camp is approximately 2000m from the JSA.

A small correction, but one I’ve been making comments on ever since the Axe Murder Incident, when the official US Army report stated that the (QRF) “Rescue SQuad” (actually a platoon), was over a mile away from the DMZ at the time of the incident, when the Camp wasn’t even a mile away from the DMZ, and at the time of the incident, the QRF Platoon was at the QRF site about 300m away, and then sat at CP#2 (the entrance to the JSA) while the 3rd Plt. leader waited for orders from Capt. Bonifas (who was already dead) to enter the JSA. Finally LTC Vierra arrived at CP#2 from Camp Kitty Hawk and ordered the 3rd Plt. into the JSA, so at no time was anybody ever “over a mile away from the DMZ”.

Thanks for this very thorough overview, I really enjoyed reading it.

I am a 1.5 gen and while growing up in Korea, I distinctly remember that axe incident and the odd feeling of uneasiness that fell on our household. I was too young to fully comprehend what exactly occurred but just remember the elders being really cautious…much more than usual.

I was at Osan AB for two years. Arrived after the murder of the two officers but there was still a lot of uneasiness, the Air Base was still on alert. I was also there during the discovery of the third tunnel. This was a big dill in Korea at the time, but made very little news in the US.

[…] versa. I’ll spare you the history lesson about Korea’s DeMilitarized Zone – but ROK Drop’s post is detailed, accurate, and full of win. Suffice it to say that the sites you’ll see are […]

The original name of Camp Bonifas was Advance Camp. It was then renamed Camp Kitty Hawk and finally Camp Bonifas.

http://news.webshots.com/photo/105402077702703489…

Thanks GI,

I had heard many of these terms, places, incidence mentioned when I was there in ’83 at Camp Pelham (later named Gary Owen) but I can appreciate much of this information in a clearer context after reading your post. You have a way of making information entertaining to read while not diminishing the seriousness of some of these events.

Very good perspective of the Korean DMZ. Some facts presented are disputable, but otherwise great source of information and good pictures. Congratulations to the one who put this together and best wishes for you in the future.

With the passing of the NK president Kim Jong-Il this week, it will be most interesting to see how things develop under the rule of Kim-Un, the expected new leader of the North.

Bill is correct in his remarks, above–and he should know, since he was there at the time.

Another small correction: the Google Earth “pin” for Camp Bonifas is actually on the edge of the helipad between it and Camp Liberty Bell. Camp Bonifas (formerly Advance Camp) is south of the road–unless all the new buildings just to the west of the pin have been incorporated into the compound since 1976. Thanks for posting.

HALF of Camp Bonifas is created from the old Camp Kitty Hawk, the other half is from Camp Liberty Bell, which of course sat diagonally across the road from Kitty Hawk and was the Advance Camp for the Forward Most Deployed Infantry Company (Co A) in the forward most deployed Inafantry Battalion in the US Army (1st Bn 9th Inf Manchu) in my day 79-81. LOL We were the Po’ COuntry Cousins that everyone forgets about right across the road. We wasnt fancy, we were just the ones that kept everyone else on the Z from getting thier asses flattenned by the entire KPA before help could arrive from the REMF’s.

I wish I had spent more time touring these historic monuments during my time in the ROK. The two incidents that stick out in my mind were the 9/11 lockdown and the two school girls who were accidentally run over.

I was stationed at Camp Casey 1978-1979 and we were constantly on alert, they were finding tunnels then.I always felt the ground shaking. I have alot of bad memories from the 13 months I spent there.It’s a SHAME…..

I was stationed at PanMumJom as a military policeman from 1964 to 1965. I loved my duty there even though at times it was scary. I can’t remember a night that we didn’t hear gun fire or those damn speakers. We got a lot of respect from Korean’s wherever we went. They respected that United Nations patch and the men who wore it.

I was stationed at Panmunjom during the USS Pueblo incident march 1968.My MOS is 11B10 and by April I remember getting paid a combat pay.The damn speakers are still there.I was awarded with a bayonet badge, for crossing the demarcation line.
Is there anyone there who was stationed in the same place and time range? please I want to hear from you.

[…] spare you the history lesson about Korea’s DMZ – but ROK Drop’s post is detailed, accurate, and full of win. Suffice it to say that the sites you’ll see are […]

Thanks for posting this–It brought back memories of my day at the DMZ while participating in Team Spirit in the late 1980s as a MSgt. with the Army Reserve’s 302nd Public Affairs Unit from Los Alamitos, L.A. Co., CA.

There was an incident in 1977 2chinooks on a training excersise collided in the Z several we’re killed and one survived. NK returned them to us a couple of weeks later.

Would have liked to see a little love for Fire Base 4P3. Everyone stationed from JSA to Freedom Bridge knew that we had their back. Was stationed at Camp Pelham from 90-91 during the first Gulf War and did 3-4 rotations up there. Remember celebrating Cristmas and New Years (no booze of course)shadowing the grunt patrols with our 155mm towed howitzers. GUNS OF THE DMZ!!!

[…] spare you the history lesson about Korea’s DMZ – but ROK Drop’s post is detailed, accurate, and full of win. Suffice it to say that the sites you’ll see are […]

I WAS STATIONED AT CAMP GREAVES IN 1976/1977 DURING THE AX MURDERS. THE PHOTOS SURE BRING BACK SOME GOOD MEMORIES.

ALL OVER DMZ 70 71 LOTS OF PATROLS OUT OF GP MARTIN.NOT TOO MUCH HEARD ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WERE ON GUARD POSTS.REMEMBER SEEING MDL SIGN AND BACKING UP REAL SLOW.IMJIN SCOUT FROM ACTA E5.ANYONE WITH PICS PLEASE SEND mkikasdmz@att.net

I was with the 7th inf div at camp honey and we patrolled the DMV in 64 and 65

I was stationed at Camp Stanley and the “First to Fire” 1st 15th FA from Oct 1979 – Jun 1980. I was a Forward observer and went to the DMZ three times and was involved in an international incedent on the DMZ when two 105′s were laid 1400 mils out of safe and we shot four rounds into North korea. What an experience it was!! 24 hours later I was in the air going home. Travis AB never looked better!! I was awarded the ARMY Accomidation medal for my actions as a PFC Gen Kingston looked surprised when he was pinning the medal on my chest and said “Damn Soldier, You are the yougest I have ever given this medal to” I am a proud Disabled Veteran and I want to thank you for your service……thnx me

I served with the 1/23 inf reg 2nd inf div at hhq co. Camp Young Korea, our duty was to patrol the dmz north of the injim river

I am researching the DMZ and trying to get clarity on the current status of the UNC-JSA force. Are there US Soldiers currently assigned to this unit conducting patrols along the DMZ?

Will try again had loss first attempt, had arrived at Casey 22 Jun 77 did the turtle farm thing then went I got to Hovey the 1/9th was getting ready to go to the DMZ so I was restricted to post and didn’t see Toko-ri until over a month later. Don’t know to today what part of the DMZ that we went to, one of the first patrols that I was getting ready to go on a 5.56 round whizzed by my head while still inside the compound, a Pfc who wasn’t supposed to even have the magazine in the well had sighted in on me with his starlight scope and squeezed off the round missing my head by inches, could hear the buzz sound as it went by.The PLT SGT come running and chewed his ass, saying son I will stick my foot so far up your ass I will have shit stained knee caps, I know that the SOP was that everybody inserted the magazine as you walked out the compound gate and only the point man and Squad leader actually chambered a round keeping the safety on, this is a true story and I know that it doesn’t even compare to combat but if that round would of been slightly to the right most likely it would of been said that dumb hillbilly from Kentucky done went and got himself killed the first month in country. Goes to show what that can happen.

u suck at typing this sux

A man is a man etc, not going to make this a hometown topic. When something happens that sticks in your mind like yesterday that was 35 plus years ago you tell it like it was and what was said. Don’t really care about your hip text u this u that. Never sucked and never will friend.

Unknown to a lot of people was a small unit based out of Yongsan. It was basically an engineer unit that did nothing but search for tunnels on the DMZ. This was in 78 when I was there. I was tasked to take my bulldozer to the DMZ to help look for the tunnel later discovered. However I was short and they sent someone else. When he came back about a week later he walked up and punched me. They sent him out into a area to dig trenches where they thought a tunnel might be. He kept hearing noises in front of his blade. He started to get off the dozer to inspect to see if something was wrong. Everybody started hollering and waving at him so he backed out of the area. They told him what he was hearing were landmines exploding and not to worry about it, but to keep a blade of dirt in front of the dozer at all times to be safe. He said it was the longest week of his life.

https://www.facebook.com/TFSmemorial

Left dmz 45 years ago today, may 21st. viet nam was the place but it was a roll of the dice for the guys on the z . most came home but not all

Are US Troops Still Needed In South Korea?

| March 5, 2010

Here is an interesting article by journalist Ben Hancock in The Diplomat about the US troop presence in South Korea that readers here at the ROK Drop should find of interest.  Hancock interviews a number of people about this issue to include, John Feffer:

usfk logo

‘It’s almost like a temperature gauge,’ says John Feffer, co-director of the Washington-based Foreign Policy in Focus and editor of The Future of US-Korean Relations. ‘When the United States reduces the number of troops [in South Korea] it has historically been an indication of displeasure.’

Today, Feffer says, this is part of the unease surrounding the transfer of OPCON, which dictates who has command over the 650,000 ROK troops in wartime. He describes it as ‘the tension between being abandoned by the United States and being suffocated by the United States.’

Given to the United Nations Command at the outset of the Korean War, OPCON was transferred to the US Combined Forces Command (CFC) in 1978, and is to return to South Korea in April 2012. The ROK regained peacetime control of its troops in 1994.

Conservatives in South Korea, like current President Lee Myung-bak and many members of his Grand National Party, are the most concerned about the OPCON transfer and what it might mean for US-ROK interoperability in the event of a North Korean attack. The fact that the decision on the transfer was made in October 2006–the same month the North conducted its first known nuclear test–likely adds to their fears.

But Feffer is dismissive. ‘This is a normal evolution in the alliance — frankly, the conservatives should be celebrating,’ he says. ‘Traditionally, conservatives are concerned about sovereignty, and this should be seen as a sovereignty issue.’  [The Diplomat]

This guy is a Korea expert?  First of all, Korea is already sovereign and Feffer seems to be perpetuating the myth that USFK is an occupying force in South Korea.  I guess using his analogy that the foreign troops stationed in the US are an occupying force that challenges the sovereignty of the US?  Secondly, every Korean not just conservatives take sovereignty very seriously especially in the wake of the Japanese Imperialism of World War II.  Sovereignty is hardly a conservative issue in South Korea.

Here is more from the article in regards to some more popular myths in South Korea:

‘Generally South Koreans think the US presence is needed,’ Cheong says, though he adds the 2000 summit between then South Korean President Kim Dae-jung and North Korean leader Kim Jong-il made people ‘rethink the necessity of US soldiers in Korea.’ He also says that feelings toward troops reflect overall sentiment towards the US government, and that attitudes have turned more positive since Barack Obama’s inauguration as US president.

And as with the controversy surrounding US military stationing in Japan’s Okinawa, Cheong acknowledges there’s still significant concern here about environmental degradation caused by bases and crimes committed by US soldiers.

As I have demonstrated US soldiers actually commit less crime per capita when compared to the Korean population, but when a GI crime happens it has been sensationalized by the media to create a perception of out of control GI crime.  This same phenomenon has occurred in regards to the USFK camp pollution issue.

The article also interviewed One Free Korea blogger Joshua Stanton about his views on the USFK troop presence as well:

Josh Stanton, a former Judge Advocate General defence attorney who served in Korea for four years and now lives in Washington, has similar memories. Though he volunteered for duty and extended twice, ‘I was definitely a rarity,’ he says. ‘Most of the people were there on one-year tours and they were counting the days.’

Stanton, who still monitors Korean affairs closely and runs the blog One Free Korea, says he enjoyed his time in Korea overall. ‘But I also tried really hard to learn Korean,’ something that’s not worth doing if you’re only going to be in the country for a year, he adds. Stanton also says South Koreans treated the US soldiers ‘at best like a public utility and at worst like a terrible occupier…that was terrible for our morale.’

Stanton left Korea in 2003, about the time Reeder says things really began to change. After the Highway 56 accident, the military put greater emphasis on training troops to be ‘a soldier and a diplomat,’ he recalls. In 2008, the first phase of tour normalization began.

Make sure to read the rest of the article here.

Instead of public utility I tend to use the term “a necessary evil” to describe many Koreans views towards USFK.  The anti-colonialism attitudes and the false perceptions among Koreans about USFK helps shapes attitudes towards USFK where many people would rather not have a US troop presence, but understand why they are needed on the peninsula.  The occupier stuff is usually coming from the hard left in Korea which many have North Korean ties and not what I consider mainstream views.

As far as the US military presence in Korea, I am a supporter of the Camp Humphreys relocation plan which will greatly reduce the USFK footprint in Korea.  I think eventually the use of having the 2nd Infantry Division located in Korea will need to be looked at because their use in a ground war in Korea would have little effect on the outcome considering the huge Army the South Koreans maintain.  It just seems the remaining 2ID units would be better used elsewhere. If 2ID was to redeploy, to maintain close ties with the ROK Army possibly Stryker units could rotate to Korea to do training exercises instead of keeping a permanently based presence?  The Air Force on the other hand I think continues to be an important asset to the defense of South Korea and I don’t see them moving anytime soon.

You can read more on this article over at the Marmot’s Hole and One Free Korea as well.

So what do readers think about Korean attitudes towards the US military presence in South Korea as well as the current troop deployments that make up USFK?

Information On Agent Orange Spraying in South Korea

| July 24, 2009

I have had an increasing amount of inquiries from former Korea veterans in regards to the spraying of Agent Orange in areas near the DMZ.  This spraying occurred during a period of heightened tensions along the DMZ where the North Koreans increased infiltrators into South Korea in an attempt to start an insurgency, ambush soldiers, attack US camps, bomb barracks, and even try to assassinate the South Korean President during a period that became known as the 2nd Korean War.  Agent Orange was sprayed along the DMZ areas in order to kill foliage in order to more easily spot North Korean infiltrators.  Agent Orange has since been proven to be the cause of a number of health defects with veterans that served in both Vietnam and Korea.

The spraying of Agent Orange in Korea has now been verified by the US government and the VA wants people who may have been exposed to it to come in:

The government is offering to examine Cold War American troops who served in Korea three decades ago for possible exposure to the defoliant Agent Orange.

In a little-publicized initiative, the Veterans Affairs Department expanded a program previously offered to Vietnam War veterans to include people who served in Korea in 1968-69.

The rule change follows by a year the Pentagon’s disclosure that South Korean troops sprayed Agent Orange, which contained the toxic herbicide dioxin, during that time along the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea.

The decision to give vets free Agent Orange Registry exams, for diseases and medical conditions associated with exposure to the herbicide, is set out in a directive issued Sept. 5 and posted on the department’s http://www.va.gov World Wide Web site.

Agent Orange and other similar herbicides were used during the Vietnam War to eliminate forest cover by defoliating broad sections of jungle mainly to facilitate pursuit of infiltrators and supplies moving into South Vietnam from the north. After it appeared probable that the defoliant caused numerous serious illnesses and birth defects, the VA set up the Agent Orange Registry in 1978, three years after the war ended, for U.S. veterans with in-country Vietnam War military service. More than 300,000 veterans have participated so far.

“Now that we understand that it was sprayed there,” said VA spokesman Jim Benson, “we can say, `If you were in Korea, you may be exposed, and we would like you to come in.”’

The VA may want these veterans to come in, but they want them to prove they were in an area that was sprayed for Agent Orange, which may be tough to do for people that were stationed in units away from the DMZ and did a short temporary duty stint near the DMZ that may have exposed them to Agent Orange. The Pentagon claims that the Agent Orange was only sprayed along the southern portion of the DMZ which is the 2 kilometer wide strip of land on the South Korean side of the border.  Even if this is true the Agent Orange could still have washed into other areas and the water supply by rain I would think?

Here is the official list of units along the DMZ that were exposed to Agent Orange:

The four combat brigades of the 2nd Infantry Division, including the following units:

  • a) 1-38 Infantry
  • b) 2-38 Infantry
  • c) 1-23 Infantry
  • d) 2-23 Infantry
  • e) 3-23 Infantry
  • f) 3-32 Infantry
  • g) 109th Infantry
  • h) 209th Infantry
  • i) 1-72 Armor
  • j) 2-72 Armor
  • k) 4-7th Cavalry

Also, the 3rd Brigade of the 7th Infantry Division, including the following units:

  • a) 1-17th Infantry
  • b) 2-17th Infantry
  • c) 1-73 Armor
  • d) 2-10th Cavalry

This veteran’s site has a number of good links on it that should help people looking for information on Agent Orange in Korea for those who are interested.  However, does anyone else have any good information or links to share to help veterans that may have been exposed to Agent Orange?

GI Flashbacks: The 2004 Taxi Cab Rape Case

| May 14, 2009

There probably isn’t a greater miscarriage of justice against a USFK servicemember than what happened to this soldier upon arrival at Incheon International Airport back in 2004:

crime image

The Seoul High Court yesterday overturned the conviction by a lower court of a 49-year old taxi driver who had been charged with the rape of a 19-year old U.S. female soldier.

The man had received a 10-month prison term in the original trial after being convicted of luring the newly-arrived servicewoman from Incheon International Airport to a hotel near there where the woman said he raped her.

The woman reported the incident to U.S. military authorities, who asked for assistance from Korean prosecutors.
The appeals court ruled that the woman had shown no evidence of having refused the man’s advances, and that he used “not enough violence to constitute rape.”

The prosecution said it would take the matter to the Supreme Court. The U.S. servicewoman returned to the United States in February; the defendant’s appeal was decided without her presence. [Joong Ang Ilbo]

So what are the odds that a 19 year old US soldier who arrived in the country for the first time would just suddenly want to have sex with a 49 year old taxi driver as soon as she gets off the plane? It doesn’t make any sense, but in the Korean court system it makes perfect sense. This is an incident that if it happened today USFK and the US government would probably have made large protests about with the cab driver not being punished for his crime.  However, back in 2004 USFK was on the defensive due to the anti-US movement that had been triggered by the 2002 armored vehicle accident that killed two Korean school girls.

I have always hoped that everything turned out alright for this soldier who was raped and the perpetrator was allowed to walk.  However, remember this story the next time someone makes the claim about GIs never being punished for crimes in Korea.

Note: You can read more GI Flashbacks articles by clicking on the below link: 

Camp Carroll Soldier Sentenced For Assaults

| May 10, 2009

Hopefully hard labor for this guy really does mean hard labor:

A soldier convicted of assaulting two other soldiers in separate incidents at Camp Carroll in South Korea has been sentenced to 90 days of hard labor, the Army said Friday.

Pfc. Aaron Goodin was sentenced Thursday in a court-martial before military judge Lt. Col. Thomas Kulish at Camp Henry in Daegu. He’d opted to be tried by judge alone instead of a jury.

Goodin is assigned to the 75th Medical Company Area Support, 168th Multifunctional Medical Battalion. He and another soldier, Pfc. Matthew Shields, assigned to the same battalion, assaulted Pfc. Brandon Masingille on June 19 during an argument.

Masingille suffered a broken nose and other injuries, said Maj. LaTondra Kinley, spokeswoman for the 19th Sustainment Command (Expeditionary).

On Thursday, Goodin also was convicted of assaulting Shields during the same Aug. 11 fight for which Shields was convicted of assaulting Goodin. The incident occurred during an argument in a motor pool.  [Stars & Stripes]

I have seen soldiers get hard labor for punishment yet the definition of hard labor means different things to different Sergeant Majors who administer it.  I had a Sergeant Major put a guy who had hard labor pretty much on Staff Duty all the time to make his Staff Duty roster easier to manage.  That is easy work.  On the other hand I have seen Sergeant Majors make guys who have hard labor fill sand bags all day, pull weeds, cut grass, paint buildings, etc. from sun up to sunset all while wearing full battle rattle.  Now that is hard labor.

Prominent Leftist Group With Ties to North Korea Raided By Police

| May 9, 2009

This is actually just another example that Korea is a rule by law, instead of a rule of law nation because these guys have been violating the National Security Laws for years:

Detectives from the National Intelligence Service (NIS) and the Security Investigative Team of the National Policy Agency (NPA) raided nineteen places, including the South Korea branch office of the Pan-Korean Alliance for Reunification (PKAR), on charges of violating the National Security Law on Thursday.

It was reported that the NIS arrested six persons including Lee Kyu-jae, 73 years old and chairman of PKAR’s South Korea branch, and searched their headquarters located in the Namyoung neighborhood of Seoul. It is the first time in six years, since Professor Song Du-yul’s case in 2003, the NIS has directly involved itself in the investigation of a security matter.

At 6:30 a.m. of the same day, detectives from the NIS and NPA raided twelve houses of PKAR senior members, six offices of PKAR, and the company that has managed PKAR’s email. The NIS says that they are analyzing hard discs, accounting records and publications that they secured during the raid.

The NIS also arrested three PKAR senior members, and three senior members of the South Korean branch of the All-Korean Committee for Implementation of the 6.15 Joint Declaration. The NIS says that it is investigating them both for whether they have communicated with North Korean without the South Korean government’s permission or praised North Korea in their publications.  [Hankyoreh]

The Joong Ang Ilbo is reporting that the police believe the Pan-Korean Alliance for Reunification was taking orders from North Korea in violation of the National Security Law.

For those that don’t know, the Pan-Korean Alliance for Reunification is one of the many North Korean front groups active in South Korea.  For example the former Vice Chairman of the PKAR, Kang Soon-jeong was arrested back in 2006 as a North Korean spy that instigate the MacArthur Statue protests in Incheon that ultimately led to a massive counter-demonstration by ROK Marine Corps veterans that turned the streets of Incheon into utter anarchy of fisticuffs.

The PKAR has been active in communist causes for years.  In recent years they even teamed up with leftist communists groups in the US to protest the US-ROK FTA. PKAR members have also been regularly going back and forth to Pyongyang to receive their marching orders these past few years with no action taken by the prior Roh Moo-hyun administration.

A North Korean poster promoting the communist country’s Songun or military-first ideology the Seoul chapter of the Korean Teachers and Education Workers’ Union recently advised members to put up in classrooms.

A North Korean poster promoting the communist country’s Songun or military-first ideology the Seoul chapter of the Korean Teachers and Education Workers’ Union recently advised members to put up in classrooms.

The PKAR has also been active in promoting the North Korean Songun philosophy in Korean school classrooms and even decorates their webpage with North Korean propaganda posters.  They have also been active in the anti-USFK movement as well.

I could go on and on but I think everyone gets the point that these people have been breaking the law for years, but has been able to get away with it due to the past governments not enforcing the law.  This selective enforcement of the law is nothing new in Korea because while these North Korean apologists and spies was busy degrading the country, the Roh government was busy trying to silence the ROK veterans groups that regularly counter-protests these North Korean stooges.

By the PKAR has also been part of an effort to get the Obama administration to sign a peace treaty between the US and North Korea.  This effort actually appears to be working considering Stephen Bosworth is now the US envoy to North Korea.

DMZ Flashpoints: The Deadly 1968 Truck Ambush

| March 31, 2009

In the late night darkness of the Korean DMZ on April 14, 1968 one of the deadliest incidents along this tension filled border would occur.  That night four UN Command personnel would lose their lives after a deadly North Korean ambush of their truck. Here is how the Stars & Stripes would report the story:

ALONG THE DMZ, Korea — Observers at the scene of Sunday night’s bold ambush by Communist North Koreans who machine-gunned and killed four United Nations Command soldiers reached one conclusion: “I don’t see how anybody survived this.”

About 20 bullet holes could be seen in the shattered front windshield of the truck. Both headlights were blasted out. Three of the tires were punctured and at least 40 rounds had ripped through the truck’s rear canvas cover. Two UNC troops survived the attack, but were wounded.

A pool of dried blood, a severed wristwatch, glass fragments and discarded bandage wrappers were scattered around the ground near the truck.

A U.S. Army spokesman said parts of a Soviet fragmentation grenade were found.

Lt. Col. M. G. Engle, chief of the UNC Joint Observation Team, found several empty North Korean ammunition clips and numerous spent rounds of Soviet-made 7.62-mm bullets near the ambush scene.

Engle had arrived here to meet with a North Korean delegation at 6 a.m. Monday to investigate the ambush, but the Communists failed to show up. They had been asked by Rear Adm. J. V. Smith, UNC senior member of the Military Armistice Commission, to participate in a Joint Observer Team (JOT) investigation.

Meanwhile, Lt. Col. Herman A. Praeger, commander of the 8th U.S. Army Support Command Advance Camp three miles south of Panmunjom, described the machine-gun fire which cut down the relief guards as “deadly accurate and delivered from close range.”

Praeger, one of the first U.S. officials to arrive at the scene, shortly after 11 p.m. Sunday, said about 200 rounds of machine-gun fire came from both sides of the dirt road.

The three-quarter-ton truck, lights on and flying a white flag in accordance with armistice rules, carried three men in the cab and three others in the back under cover of the canvas top, according to Praeger.

The UNC guards were carrying .45-cal. pistols but it was not known whether they returned any shots, Praeger said.

The dead and injured were taken by helicopter to the 121st Evac. Hospital in ASCOM after the ambush.

The truck and guards were from the support element at the Advance Camp, not from the 2nd Inf. Div. as previously reported.

By Craig Garner, S&S Korea bureau
Pacific edition, Wednesday, April 17, 1968

Of interest is this ambush occurred at the same time that the US was negotiating for the release of the crew from the USS Pueblo that had been captured back in January 1968. Additionally President Lyndon B. Johnson was meeting the next day with ROK President Park Chung-hee in Hawaii to discuss the USS Pueblo Incident and the sending of an additional 50,000 ROK soldiers to Vietnam.  Arguably the North Koreans were sending a message about their resolve for US capitulation on the USS Pueblo issue and give Park reason to not send more troops to Vietnam.

April 16, 1968 edition of the Stars & Stripes.

 

August 17, 1968 edition of the Stars & Stripes.
April 16, 1967 edition of the Stars & Stripes.

Conclusion

This ambush of the vehicle was one that followed a series of deadly North Korean provocations during the late 1960′s to include an ambush of Camp Liberty Bell, the Camp Walley barracks bombing, along with other attacks; most notably the Blue House Raid. This period of increased North Korean attacks  would eventually come to be known as the DMZ War.  This period of American military history is little known, but had important strategic consequences for the US military that unfortunately the four UN Command soldiers killed in the truck ambush would never live to see.

You can read more DMZ Flashpoint articles at the below link:

I remember in 1980(?) an incident at the DMZ that ocurred during the turmoil after Pak Chung Hee was assassinated. An ambush in the DMZ that was emphatically denied by the North Koreans, even though the evidence of spent shells and NK hats(?) were found.

It would seem that the KCIA at the time had planned the ambush to implicate the North and bring the US closer in supporting the new military regime in South Korea. The south was in tumoil at the time with riots and many killed in demonstrations,(est 200+) by the military, at Kwang Ju (?)

What does that have to do with this article? I don’t know, but it jogged my memory.

One of the best reads on this subject was written by then Major Daniel Bolger. He is now Major General Bolger and the CG of 1st CAV. His Leavenworth Paper Number 19, Scenes from an Unfinished War: Low-Intensity Conflict in Korea, 1966-1968, is well worth the read. It can be found at: http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/Bolge…

To: Moderator, TD

A writer sent a comment regarding Agent Orange drums being used/stored in ASCOM Eighth Army during his tour, I believe 1968/1969 he did not leave an E-Mail address, I would appreciate communicating with anyone who served at ASCOM who could help other Vets with similar Agent Orange exposure claims, I also served there from 1967-1969 and could help.

Respond to Diplomattoo@gmail.com

To: Moderator, TD

A writer sent a comment regarding Agent Orange drums being used/stored in ASCOM Eighth Army during his tour, I believe 1968/1969, I would appreciate communicating with anyone who served at ASCOM who could help many Vets with similar Agent Orange exposure claims, I also served there from 1967-1969 and could help.

Respond to Diplomattoo@gmail.com

yes they did store it there and sprayed it on the Fence and south tape area south of fence .

Was there saw that done and nothing grew then

my husband was in korea at the time 16 men died and they could not fire back they had no ammo in thier weapons. After this episode they were sent to the DMZwith a .45 and an m14.

I was home on leave waaiting to go to Korea on the night the truck ws ambushed. I saw the news report on tv. When I arrived in Korea I was assigned to JSA and replaced the Sgt. who was killed on the truck that was ambushed. There were firefights every night during that year along the DMZ. It was truly a forgotten war.
MIke Johnson
Sgt. E5
JSA Apr-Oct 1968

Served @ the 121 and remember these incidents well. Remember the Agent Orange also.

I served there in 68-69.

The C.O. of the Hosp. was Maj. Simpkins and X.O. was Capt. Stephen Mumford. Capt. Ilert was the next C.O..

This story was distorted by the Army from the very beginning. I suspect that they wanted to minimize things due to the Viet Nam War having priority. There were about 10 or 11 people in that vehicle. Unbelieveably, the driver survived the initial attack and was later killed after begging for his life. One guy in front survived by playing dead. Another 2 in the back. SSgt. Robert Hawkins, A Co. 1/38 Inf. put together how it was done. 3 North Koreans, an L-shaped ambush with grenades and AK-47 fire. Hours afterwards they were trailed by blood hounds into Freedom Village. SSgt. Hawkins decided not to trail the NK’s into the village for fear of civilian harm.

Sgt. John Butler A Co. 1/38 Inf.

My brother, LeRoy R. Jacks, Jr. was one of the surviving American soldiers that were in that jeep that day. There were only 6 people in that jeep, according to him. When the jeep was fired upon, the jeep stopped and the driver stood up saying “We surrender” and then they were immediately fired upon. My brother said that he got hit and one of the soldiers fell on top of him, which is probably what saved his life. He said they got close enough to take his gun out of its holster. He knew they were not taking prisoners so he just “froze” there. When he was able to finally come “home”, he showed us slides of the jeep and the clothes they had on. It was really a miracle that anyone lived that day. He also showed us slides of the “alleged” peace talks at Panmunjom where they were discussing the incident termed “The Pueblo Crisis” While they were supposed to be concerned with human lives, the two sides were trying to upstage the other side as to “which side had the higher flag”. Every day there were taller flags. This was nothing but “Trivial Pursuit” at a time when the lives of our servicemen were in jeopardy. My brother passed away 10 years ago of cancer. He was only one week away from his 55th birthday which was on July 29. He was never “proud” of the incident .

Your date is incorrect. It happened on 14 April 1968 not 17 April 1968. It happened on Easter Sunday morning. Look up Easter Sunday in 1968 and see what date it fell on. I remember the date because I was assigned to the US Army Support Group, JSA at the time. One of my worst days in the Army.

I WAS ON CHECK POST 3/THE BRIDGE/ THE DAY OF THE ATTACK WHEN THINGS BEGAN TO HAPPEN 1 A SGT E5 WAS THERE WITH A JEEP VISITING A FLUKE WHEN THE N KOKEAN COVERED 3/4 TON CAME ACROSS THE BRIDGE MY JOB WAS TO OBSERVE, LOG AND GUESS HOW MANY OCCUPANTS AT 25MPH TODAY THEY STOPPED THE JEEP CAUGHT THEM BY SURPRISE AND THEY DIDNOT LIKE IT I WAS HEADING OUTSIDE TO SEE WHAT THESE ASSHOLES WERE UP TO BUT WAS ORDERED TO STAND DOWN AND STAY PUT LOTS OF YELLING AND RUNNING AROUND OUTSIDE AND AN OFFICER DIRECTING TO SLASH ALL 4 TIRES WHICH THEY DID AND LEFT INTO JSA CALL TO MOTOR POOL SGT AND JEEP LEFT NOON CHOW RELIEF TRUCK /THE TRUCK/ WAS LATE I CALLED IN TOLD TO WAIT THELL CHECK 1 HR LATER CALLED AGAIN TOLD TO KEEP THE LINE CLEAR AND REPORT ANY THING STANGE? SOON THE TROOPS ARRIVED IWAS TOLD NOTHING REPORT BACK TO ADVANCE CAMP MY 45 TAKEN AWAY THEY WERE AFRAID OF REPRISALS AND BACK TO SEOUL IN 12HRS WE WERE TOLD NOTHING NEVER QUESTIONED AND I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT WAS COVERED TILL NOW AND THE INTERNET I FIRMLY BELIVE THE GUNS AND THE MEN THAT KILLED OUR TROOPS WERE IN THE BACK OF THAT TRUCK

Why Immediate Withdrawal of the US Military Will Not Happen Anytime Soon

| July 4, 2008

Due to the on going US beef protests, the long chain of anti-US protests, as well as the underlying anti-Americanism prevalent in Korean society, many people have advocated for the immediate withdrawal of USFK.

usfk logo

The immediate withdrawal of USFK is something easier said then done. Listed below is my list of reasons why I believe an immediate pull out of USFK is not practical and thus will not happen anytime soon.

Take note that my list is no particular order of importance. Also this is my own personal opinion so do not take it as any indication of what the USFK command thinks on this issue. Take it for what it is worth and feel free to debate it in the comments section.

Korean Economic Impact – First of all you have all the jobs that Korean workers hold on USFK bases which would be lost if USFK pulled out. You also have all the businesses outside the camps that are another example of ways money is made from USFK.  Blackmarketing, illegal gambling, golf course scams, gate scams, housing scams, shady contracts, etc. are examples of ways that Koreans are making millions off the USFK presence in Korea.  So much money would be lost that Korean politicians would feel enormous pressure to keep USFK in Korea.

Impact on Foreign Investment – With Korea already hurting for foreign investment the loss of USFK would create another major shock to Korean attempts to draw international investors. Think about if you were going to invest your money in Korea, wouldn’t you feel better if your investment was insured by the US military presence in the country?

Korean Defense Spending – Currently the Korean government gets state of the art military capabilities courtesy of the USFK presence in their country for the small USFK upkeep fee that they pay every year that mostly goes to pay the salaries of Korean workers anyway. The Korean government has been able to put off paying the full amount to pay for their own defense for decades and are eager to keep things that way.  This allows the ROKs to take advantage of superior US technology such as command & control, intelligence, and missile defense systems that would normally be too cost prohibitive for them to pursue.

Loss of Korean Political Influence in Washington – For a country considered a middle power around the world Korea’s has an inflated importance within Washington for a nation of its size and stature should have because of the US-ROK alliance.  Korea has one of the few four star commands in the US military with the USFK commander having direct access to senior policy makers in the United States. Losing USFK would also mean a huge loss in political influence in Washington which the Korean government does not want.

Moderating American Reactions to North Korea – The Korean government knows that as long as American troops are exposed to an attack by North Korea that this moderates a US response to a North Korean provocation.  The 2ID and even soldiers on Yongsan are easy targets for a North Korean response and this tends to moderate American reactions to North Korean brinkmanship. This was one of the main reasons why the ROK government has reservations about the USFK transformation plan.  By consolidating troops on Camp Humphreys which is outside the North Korean artillery range, an American military response to North Korean brinkmanship is a greater possibility.

Lack of Unit Space in the US – Related to logistics is the fact that 27,500 soldiers that are currently in USFK plus their families would need a post back in the US that has room for them to redeploy to. When 2BCT redeployed to Iraq I knew guys that were living in rented college dorm rooms because Ft. Carson didn’t physically have room for them yet. The post hadn’t anticipated the soldiers being posted at the facility in order to build enough barracks for them. In the US you have units coming back from overseas that are living in squalor, ghetto like conditions because they are a waiting for units to deploy overseas in order to take their barracks space. This is caused by the growth of the military, base closings, as well as the prior force cut backs in Korea and the major force cut backs in Germany.

Camp Closeout Procedures – If USFK were to pull out all the camps currently occupied, all the camps would need to be cleaned and inspected before redeployment. Having personally been involved in the closeouts of smaller camps in Uijongbu I can tell you this process took about 4-6 months for smaller camps to get done. I can only imagine how long it will take to get a huge installation like Yongsan inspected and handed over.

Political Apathy in Washington – The fact of the matter is that very few politicians back in the US know much of anything about Korea. Much of their perceptions of Korea is based off the US-ROK alliance that was forged in blood during the Korean War. There have been few politicians in Washington that “get it” in regards to Korean affairs and Congressmen Henry Hyde was one of them before he past away.

Despite all the other issues with Donald Rumsfeld, in regards to Korean affairs he was another guy that understood Korea very well. When the Korean government balked at the relocation plan Rumsfeld pulled 2nd Brigade, 2ID from Korea with little forewarning to let the Korean government know he was serious about the transformation. The removal of 2nd Brigade is what began the USFK transformation. However, once Rumsfeld resigned from office the Korean government a week later reneged on the deal and the delay games preventing the USFK transformation began.

Power of the Status Quo – For anyone to tackle all the issues I have listed above it would take extraordinary dedication and effort to do so that would need to be maintained over a number of years until the pull out of forces from Korea is complete. For many political leaders, putting forth the multi-year effort necessary to withdraw USFK is simply too much work with little political payoff, so why bother? In regards to USFK you have a military unit comprised mostly of people there for one year and then going home. They to have little incentive to undertake a long term project in regards to the withdrawal of USFK.

The ones who have spent a long time in USFK and work to change things are often offset by those who have been in Korea a long time themselves and actually benefit from keeping the status quo the way it is. It is not impossible, but it is difficult to create change in USFK. There are a few other smaller issues I can think of in regards to pulling USFK out of Korea but these are the main ones that would need to be addressed that clearly show that withdrawing USFK would require a multi-year long term effort. Since such a thing isn’t going to happen anytime soon that is why I think the US government should continue to strongly push for the USFK consolidation on Camp Humphreys. The consolidation is an opportunity for USFK to cut troop numbers along with reducing the force footprint in the nation along with being in a better strategic position in regards to North Korea.

The ROK government is going to continue to do everything possible to delay the relocation. President Bush announced in April a delay in troop cuts that were anticipated as part of the Camp Humphreys relocation and he should use that as a bargaining chip in regards to the Camp Humphrey relocation. In due time those troop cuts should be restarted anyway and get the USFK force strength down to 25,000 servicemembers as planned.

Additionally I believe USFK should move units piece meal to Camp Humphreys. USFK should focus on building one unit area at a time on the expanded Camp Humphreys and fill it with soldiers currently stationed on Yongsan. Build another unit area and fill it with more soldiers from Yongsan. Physically moving people from the most visible US military presence in Korea will send a signal to Korea at large that the US is serious about the move.

If the Korean government continues to play delay games (ie- the cost sharing and camp pollution issues) then serious consideration should given in regards to removing 2ID completely from the peninsula. This would be a shock to Korean society even greater then when 2nd brigade was withdrawn that should be enough to get the Korean government moving on the relocation of US forces to Camp Humphreys.

ROK Drop Book Review: Seasons in the Kingdom

| May 28, 2008

There are very few countries that have had as many things happen to it in such a short time then Korea.  The nation in just the past 55 years since the end of the Korean War has faced communist insurgencies, coups, break neck economic development, assassinations, economic collapse, as well as a successful democracy movement.  Throughout all these years American servicemembers rotating for mostly one year tours on the peninsula have bared witness to all the set backs and accomplishments of the Republic of Korea.

Despite this constant presence of the American military in Korean society, very little has been written about the GI experience in Korea.  This is what makes Tim Norris’s book, Seasons in the Kingdom such a unique addition to the growing number of Korea related books.  Norris’s book is a historical work of fiction that follows the life of a US Army soldier who was drafted into the Army and instead of being sent to Vietnam was sent to South Korea to complete a tour of duty on the peninsula between 1973-1974.


1964 picture of ASCOM City.

The soldier, Mike is given orders to work as a guard at the 8th Army Confinement Facility, which at that time was located on the outskirts of Incheon in an area known as ASCOM (Army Support Command).  ASCOM was the US military’s main logistical support hub at the time and the only remnants of it that remains today is Camp Market.  The story initially develops by following Mike’s interactions with fellow soldiers in the barracks before getting into the meat of the story, which is his life in the “ville” which are the small camptowns located outside US military installations in Korea.


1968 image of a ville outside a US military camp.

For those that have served on the Korean peninsula during or near this time frame; this book should really bring back memories of what it was like back then as Norris explains in great detail, not only what the life of a GI was like in the ville, but the girls working there as well.  Norris does a great job describing the girls working in these clubs by really bringing home to the reader that these girls were more than just prostitutes, but people who also had hopes and dreams before being shackled by the club system.


1968 photo of US military barracks bunk.

In order to describe the life of the numerous Korean prostitutes working in the GI camptowns, Norris has Mike meet the beautiful Songhi.  Songhi’s life like many in Korea was filled with bitter disappointment and strife after she was locked into the club system by a scheming ajumma when she was forced to quit college due to her father not having enough money to pay for her education and Songhi’s younger brother as well.  Songhi like many girls working in the ville dream of marrying a GI in order to escape the club system that has trapped her and to bring her a better life in America.

The rest of the story develops as Mike eventually purchases Songhi from the club ajumma to become what was known back then as a “yobo”.  The yobo system no longer exists today, but back then GIs could purchase girls from the clubs, set them up in a small apartment, and that woman would effectively be their girlfriend for the entire year they were in Korea.  Being a yobo was highly sought after by the club girls because it meant they no longer had to prostitute themselves in the club anymore and increased their chances of marrying a GI.


1968 photograph of a Korean girl outside a US military club in Korea.


Sign posted on base in 1968 warning soldiers of club girls with STDs.

As their relationship develops both Songhi and Mike have unrealistic expectations of each other, but neither seems to realize it until Songhi becomes pregnant with Mike’s baby.  The book concludes with Mike completing his tour of duty in Korea and having to come face to face with what kind of life and future he wanted to have with Songhi.

The story is compelling, but the real reason why I recommend people should read this book is not for the story, but to get a better understanding of the conditions servicemembers serving in Korea during this time frame experienced.  This book makes clear the latent racism and the huge drug problem that plagued the US military in the 1970s.  The drug problem in the ranks was so bad that soldiers were arrested for using their M-16s to murder Korean drug dealers when drug deals went bad.  In fact two soldiers were so high on drugs that they took their weapons and had a stand off on Seoul Tower with the Korean police before finally giving themselves up.

The book also describes how some guards used to beat black prisoners and how some clubs became segregated by race as well. The racism was just between white and black soldiers but many soldiers also directed their racism and frustrations at the Koreans as well.  Even in the 1970’s “gook” was still a common term for a Korean.


1969 picture of Korean women in Seoul.

Likewise the Koreans themselves were very racist.  The prostitutes in the ville were considered the bottom of society and often insulted in the streets for associating with GIs, especially black GIs.  Children of these women often had no other options in Korean society other than becoming workers in the camp system themselves.


1968 image of a village woman.

In many aspects the US military’s behaviour back then was less then admirable and it is easy to see why many 386 generation Koreans still hold negative stereotypes of the US military based off their experiences from growing up during this time frame.  Like the incredible progress Korea has made over the years, US military has come a long way as well and this book is a welcome reminder of that.  Hopefully one day the ville system still in place today will be the last reminder of this time.

____________________________________________________

Note: More reviews of the book can be read here and Seasons in the Kingdom is available on Amazon for those interested in purchasing the book.

That Mishelov site is great for pictures of that time period.

A wall with Korean whores names with STD’s. It seems as if Korea was one big whore house then.

I guess with all the red light dist, room salons, business clubs, da bang’s (coffee shops), booking clubs (sure is a long list and there is more LOL)in Korea these days, things sure have changed and sure have stayed the same.

It is a great site for pictures especially high quality color pictures of that time period.

[…] GIKorea at ROKDrop.com reminds us that the US forces in Korea have come a long way since 1974 as well. May 26, 2008 […]

Thanks for the great review of my novel, Seasons in the Kingdom. I appreciate it and all that you do.
Best,
Tim at nandupress!

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I was stationed on a missile tact side in south korea in the year 1970, while there i caught Tuberculosis and had to be flown back to the states to be treated for my ten remaining month in the service and was given a early release in feb 3 1972, my memory of the place is not so good , i nearly died over their with active Tuberculosis , and still suffer with breathing problems assocated with my old Tuberculosis, I think if i had not had relationships with the korean woman my health and life would have been of a better quality..but i was young and stupid like all young people back then, and i never knew the risk that i was taking back them as far as my health was conserned, I have never read the book about korea, maybe i will in the future ..good day stanley Ray Mcqueen

Tim no problem it was a great book and I enjoyed reading it.

Stanley sorry to hear about the TB. Korea has come a long ways since then but it is still not uncommon to hear about people getting diagnosed with TB unfortunately. I do recommend you check out the book since you were stationed in Korea back then. You would probably enjoy it.

I visited Ascom City on my recent trip to Korea. Amazingly parts of Sin-Chon, my village, and Cherry Hill are still there. Photos to follow soon on my website. I visited the house where I lived and walked some of those alleyways. The rice fields around our compound are now all apartments blocks that loom over the remaining parts of the old villages. Will update when photos are available.

Best,

Tim Norris

I have just posted images of Sinchon, Cherry Hill, and the village nearby. These images are from my recent trip, but they alleyways are still there from my time in Korea. I also have a few comparative shots of the village from then and now.

Best, and more to come.

Tim

I was on the DMZ in ’67-’68 and I can tell you it was all business when we were on the zone, very serious stuff. There was a huge difference between being stationed on the DMZ and near Seoul. I only made it to Seoul once and it was only about 35 miles away. The life in the ‘ville was probably the same except for the racism, as far as I knew all races coexisted very well. I had a number of black friends, although we didn’t have too many black guys in my infantry unit, perhaps more were stationed down south. The Koreans were still very much appreciative of what we did for them during the Korean War although many GI’s were jerks to the Korean people.

I will buy the book and thanks for writing of your experiences.

I enjoyed reading your book Tim.

As I worked for the NCO Club Admin office I seen a lot of the interaction between the Korean women and the GI’s as you spoke of in your book.

I spent a few days at the Ascom City base just prior to my departure from Korea.

I really enjoyed the Korean language cross refrence in your glossary. I liked the Military Language and Bamboo English too.

I look forward to seeing your recent pictures of Korea.

Paul in Tampa

Tim, great photos of the old ville. I liked your before and after shots that show how much the area has changed.

I’m glad you enjoyed your return trip to Korea.

Sounds like me…I ordered the book…I’m sure it will be a great read and a real memory jogger. I was there in the late 50s and 1969-70.

I was in the 249th 1968-1969

If you will tell me how I will send you a picture.

Paul, be sure to check out my website at http://www.nandupress.com.
thanks tim

Tim

Thank you for helping Ronnie Partin and I to get in touch with each other after over 35 years, since being in the 249th together in 1968.

I was fresh out of basic training in 1979 assigned to the 249th MP Det Confinement Facility. As soon as I reported to the First Sergent he had me, himself and two of my buddies breaking the ice up in the duck pond. I knew this place was wieird. After my tour I releized how much I missed it. No I did’t have a YOBO I was still playing the bars and saving money instead one sucking me dry. We only had one attempt escape.

Steve,

I’d like to hear from you. You would probably down at Camp Humphreys. I remember when we moved the stockade down there in ’75. It was a big deal to move into modern facilities. I have many posted pics and more coming of the 249th at Ascom City. Any photos or stories please send them my way.

Best,

Tim Norris

Steve,

website is http://www.nandupress.com.
Thanks. Tim

Tim,

I have no pic’s I was just 17 and too excited leaving home for the first time, my one year flew by fast. We had a pretty good softball team and that duck pond we had came in handy in the summer months. By the way chickens can swim. The problem with the pond was the ducks and chickens kept missing, we thought it was the KATUSA. found out it was the perimiter guards that stayed in our compound, TASTY If you have pics of the Humphry’s 249th mp could you send them at steven.gunn@kbr.com I’m presently a civilian in IRAQ for DOD.

Hi Tim,

I have just ordered the book! I was one of the few civilian women who followed my husband to South Korea.

05/69-09/70. We lived in the village of Bupyong Dong about a 15 minute walk from the post. We took many pictures as we spent a lot of time at the craft shop on the base. We did the developing ourselves. It sure was an interesting time. We have a lot of stories! I was fortunate to secure a job at the 121st evacuation hospital and witnessed the Pueblo crew arriving. I have often wondered how the area is now. Anxious to read the book.

Jennifer, glad to hear from you. You can contact me direct at nandupress.com…I have my email addresses there. Best to you. Interested in pictures of the village when you have the time to share. Tim Norris

Jennifer,

Thanks for commenting and I would be interested in seeing any photos you may have as well. If you want you can post them over at the ROK Drop Forums to share with everyone:

http://rokdrop.com/forums/

Where is the lovely song you had on your site “arirang”.

tim,

i have many photos of ascom and the guys

in my unit,the 728th MP, company A.

i was stationed there from january 1968 to

may 1969.

have not read your book but plan to do so.

gerry landrum

Gerry,

Thanks for your comments. You may want to check out my website where I have some excellent donated photos to look at. Look forward to hearing from you.

Best,

Tim

tim i was in the 249th mp 1969-1970 i was the only one that was in the stockade, tdy and perment party all in 18 months

Gerry,

Just wanted to check to see if you received your book?

Best, Tim

Charles,

Glad you have made contact…check out my website http://www.nandupress.com for photos and other information about 249th MP Detachment…best, tim

Tim

I just came back from Korea, I went in October 2009 returned to America November 2009. I did not go back to where the old 249th was when I served there in 1968-1969,the ASCOM Area, but much has changed and become very modernised, I spent one month in down town Soul Korea on my last trip to Korea in 2009.

Landrum, I was assigned to A Co. 728th MPs November 15, 1970 for about 3 months before being transferred to Yongsan. I never really knew what the hell the post’s name was. Did you know Daniel Dwyer, Joins, or Roy Areana?

Oh! believe me when I say C Co. lived on a condemmed ROK Marine compound it wasn’t better then A Co. barracks. Yongsan Compound was nice but the MPs didn’t live there, we were half way between Yongsan and the Han River, right by the bus station.

I was assigned to A co. 728th MP Co. February 1968 to May 1969. Co. C 728th Mp Bn 1969 to 1971. 1975 Camp Market. 2ND infantry div MP Camp Pelham, PDSK 1978 Wanshmnee Security for the Norther Operations district for the pipeline. A total of 8 years in Korea.

I’d like to comment on Dave L’s statement:

“although many GI’s were jerks to the Korean people.”

John Duncan, director of UCLA Center for Korean Studies, made a similar statement. His first contact with Korea was, you guessed it, via US Army.

“He (John Duncan) also recalled that during his Army stint he was repulsed by the behavior of many fellow G.I.’s towards South Korean employees and locals they came in contact with near the demilitarized zone.”

Here’s the link:
http://www.international.ucla.edu/korea/news/arti…

I was stationed at camp Wentzel for a short time in 70. Was a section sgt with a 4 duece mortar platoon 2nd/9th/HqHq. I remember life being quite grand there, modern facilities and all. I remember Spoonbill Bridge as a pontoon structure close by on the river. I also remember my first of many visits to the vil. We soon packed up everything, turned the camp over to the Korean Army and moved down the river just north of Libby Bridge. Our platoon however was stationed several miles away from the main camp out closer to the MDL. Our little camp was knowns as RC#10. It was quite primative but we had alot of freedom there and took turns with long stays in Souel, ChangPaRi and I believe PoeWaNe, parden my spellings. It was an interesting experience at RC#10, to be caressed to sleep each night by the loud Speakers on the north side of the fence. I recall a huge hard drug problem in at the main camp but our tight little group preferred beer and pot. I also recall our platoon being all white or asian. But I had several black friends I had made prior to our separation from the rest of the Company and I often joined them in the village. One night all hell broke loose and two of my black friends came into the club where I was, grabbed me saying nothing and slipped me down a dark ally and they told me to get the hell out of there. The next day I learned that there had been a big clash between black and white soldiers with serious injuries. The girls were my fondest memories as they by the most part were attractive and very pleasant ladies. I had a yobo for most of the time I was there and she was beautiful and very smart. The guys I hung out with were polite and always helpful to the Koren people. Needless to say I enjoyed my stay in Korea and have very fond memories of the Korean People and especially the home rice and the kimchi.

I was at Greaves and Liberty Bell… what camp was north of Libby? I remember RC#4 and Camp Pelham in Sonju-ri, but north of the river, when I was there in the 80’s, we only had Greaves, Liberty Bell and Bonifas (plus tent city).

Found your blog on AskJeeves, great information, but the site looks awkward in doing my browser setup, but will work fine in IE. choose figure.

I read this book and am kind of torn over hit. The story of Mark and Songhi is magnificent and they way he brings the juicy girls into three dimensions is simply wonderful. But the editing was horrible! And I am not referring to a misspelled word here in there. Repeat sentences and even whole paragraphs one after the other is just a total no go!

One minor point. I found Songhi’s background story to be a tad distracting. Yeah, I know you can find club girls in similar situations. But come on, did she have to be a drop out from an elite university?

Was stationed at Taegu with the 503 MP Det. After ASCOM started to close we be came A Co 728th MP Bn, had alot of MP’s from ASCOM. We were split up between Pusan Taegu and Waegwan. I ended up at Camp Carroll in Waegwan with many of the MP’s from ASCOM. Went there the first time to escort three GI’s to the stockade after the Taegu riots.

Chris in Dallas: I agree. I haven’t been able to finish it yet because of the editing and some of the writing. I can’t understand why broken English was used to portray a conversation between two Koreans (presumably speaking Korean). I thought it somewhat demeaning. Also, some of the prose used to describe various scenes was waaaay too wordy. But, I will finish it for no other reason than the story line.

I WAS STATIONED WITH 121ST. EVACUATION HOSPITAL IN ASCOM CITY, FROM NOVEMBER 1960 – FEBRUARY 1962. I WAS A MEDIC WITH THIS HOSPITAL. THE LONGEST TIME I EVER HAD OFF IN ALL THOSE MONTHS THERE WAS 3 DAYS. MY RNR WAS CANCELLED BECAUSE OF WHO KNOWS WHY! THEN I WAS EXTENTED BY UNCLE SAM FOR 3 ADDITIONAL MONTHS. I CAME HOME ON THE USS GAFFEY. AFTER SERVING THERE I WAS STATIONED UPSTATE NEW YORK, WHERE I BECAME ILL AND WAS GIVEN A MEDICAL RETIREMENT FROM THE ARMY.
ALBERT PACELLO