Controversy at Hollywood Bar In Itaewon

This editorial in the Korea Times claims that the Hollywood Bar in Itaewon is racists towards black people:

It was my girlfriend’s birthday, and I was throwing her a surprise party. I had invited all of our close friends, including her cousin. Among our friends, there were three guys from Nigeria. Shortly after we arrived, an argument erupted between our Nigerian friends and the bartender. I asked why, and they explained to me that the bar security was asking for their IDs and that the bartender wouldn’t sell them any drinks because they are from Nigeria and they are black.

I couldn’t believe what I was hearing, so I asked to speak to the manager. I met up with him and I told him that the three Nigerian gentlemen were my friends, and we _ a group of about 25 people _ were celebrating my girlfriend’s birthday. “I invited them to the party, so please do not mess up our party,’’ I pleaded.

He said that they would have to leave the bar, because Hollywood bar does not serve Nigerians or black people in general. I told him not to be such a racist. He said, “We do not serve black people in this bar.” I honestly couldn’t believe this was happening, and so I said that if they had to leave, we would all leave.

I have never been to the Hollywood Bar before and after reading this I probably won’t ever go there, but I did a little checking on Google about the Hollywood Bar and found this from the Korea Herald:

Upstairs, separate owner of Hollywood Bar and Grill, American Barry Dorscher banned GIs three years ago. “If you let GIs in, every week you’re fixing you’re bathroom, because they bust it up,” he said, suggesting the bans were less driven by racism than by the old adage about oil and water.

So I guess GI’s aren’t welcome there as well. This same article had a few other interesting quotes in it as well:

“So many GIs have drugs. Now that’s gone,” said another club owner, preferring not to be named. “SOFA is a big problem. Whenever a fight broke out the military police would come but they couldn’t touch the GIs because of the law.” He also mentioned that the ban wasn’t entirely a Korean initiative. USFK personnel came and met the two heads of the Hongdae club conglomerate before the ban was implemented.

This whole SOFA thing is so frustrating because the Korean police have the right to arrest any GI that gets in a fight off duty at the club. Why people keep saying in the media GIs cannot be arrested due to the SOFA is complete disinformation. Here is some more interesting stuff:

In Geckos, a group of U.S. soldiers are drinking beer. One of them says he loves Hodge Podge (in Hongdae), but he can’t go there.

“We were told to watch out for a group of Koreans who would pick a fight with a GI while his friend’s in the background with a camcorder, for propaganda,” he said, on condition of anonymity.

His friend K.P. said everything got worse after two Korean girls were killed by a U.S. military vehicle last June. He lifted his shirt to show a scar on his chest where a 17-year-old girl cut him with a razor blade at an established hotel nightclub, “yelling something about killing babies.” Seven months ago, a young Korean pulled a knife on him in a subway saying Americans were tearing North and South Korea apart.

This article was before the Shinchon stabbing incident. It is too bad the soldiers involved in that incident didn’t listen to the command message being put out to avoid Hongdae because of the groups looking to provoke fights with US soldiers for propaganda purposes. Pvt. Humphrey wouldn’t be sitting in jail right now if he would have obeyed the off limits order.

The altercation that the soldier talks about is interesting because during the 2003 time period there were other attempted stabbings of soldiers. The stabbings of course got very little if any press, but it just makes me wonder if the same people were committing the stabbings?

Anyway if you have any insights or stories about the Hollywood Bar please feel free to leave a comment.

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Sue
Sue
17 years ago

I commend you and all your fellow soliders our in Korea. My baby brother is stationed out there too.
Our family grew up in Korea. And let me tell you, its not easy being of both nationalities. Most people hate you. Some people will like you. But in times like these, I think the majority of Koreans just don't like anyone who isn't Korean.
I went to university in Korea. I've been back for almost 6 years now, but I know from stories my brothers and my parents tell me, things have changed so much since I have come back. My younger brother just got back from Korea 3 weeks ago. And he says its almost like a different world.
Best of luck to you out there.
God Bless You.

Mr. Smarty Pants
Mr. Smarty Pants
17 years ago

Is this guy a white guy or a black guy? I'm curious to know if he is of Nigerian blood, considering how much trouble he's making. Right GI Korea? Why didn't you find some way to post this article under an anti-Korean light?

Mr. Smarty Pants
Mr. Smarty Pants
17 years ago

A few yeaars ago, the King Club, at the foot of Hooker Hill, had a sign by the door that said, "No Nigerian People." Can't get anymore blatant than that. Why was this sign posted? I don't know, but I'm sure that the management had good reason. All of those Nigerians who hang around on the corners at the bottom of the Hill are a little spooky. I've never really thought about it before now, but what are all of those Nigerians doing in Itaewan? If they're students, then I got it, but I can't imagine there being too many day-labor jobs available in downtown Seoul. Are they congregating there off of brick-laying squads in Asan, Guri, and Ilsan? When you travel around the countryside, you occassionally come across small foreigner enclaves, consisting of people who are surely there illegally. I've seen this in the hills outside of Munsan, Chuncheon, and as far south as Taejon. On another note, one of the oddest things that ever happened to me in Korea was passing a very old white, male pedestrian on the side of the road outside of Donghae in the dead of winter. I was a tourist, so I had a car. What was he doing there?

Anyway, GI Korea, I challenge you to post a pro-Korean article before the weekend is through.

H. Kim
H. Kim
17 years ago

This allegations made in the aforememtioned letter to the editor (it's not an editorial) are suspect for the following reasons:

1) Only one side of the story is presented, i.e., that of a disgruntled customer;

2) No consideration is given to possible cross-cultural miscommunication or distortion on the writier's part.

The writer/patron makes it seem like he's dealing with some bartender back home, when in fact, he's dealing with a Korean proprietor of a Korean establishment in Korea.

Anyone who's been around in Korea knows that your Korean bartender/restaurateur is not going to be like "Sam Malone" tending bar at "Cheers".

That the writer chose to mount an inflammatory diatribe and an ad hominem attack a Korean business/commercial interest in the wake of his perceived mistreatment is extremely unfortunate, if not foolhardy.

Under Korean law, such a person could be held criminally and civily liable for making injurious statements against a business, as well as be held financially liable for any loss of business that Hollywood's experiences as a result of such publicly made statements. He could also be charged in attempting to blackmail Hollywood's, as well as being liable for making potentially libelous statements.

In Korea — more so than in the West — business owners' property rights extend to being able to seek both civil and CRIMINAL damages against those who attempt to harm their business by making injurious statements regarding a commercial enterprise's image, reputation or credibility.

In Korea, making public statements that attack such interests, especially in vis-a-vis the media, is so unbelievably foolish namely because it can open up a can of legal whoop ass like you wouldn't believe should the business choose to respond.

The best advice for a disgruntled person in such a situation is to either settle such issues face to face, or file a lawsuit (while keeping one's mouth shut). Going to the media is the stupidest thing he could've done.

To publicly make disparaging remarks or allegations of wrongdoing against a business/commercial interest in Korea is a very dangerous thing to do here, i.e., if you're interested in avoiding criminal liablitiy, which could easily happen should Hollywood take legal action against this very foolish individual.

Tom
Tom
17 years ago

Kim, correct.

Next thing they'll start complaining will be that the Korean cops are stopping these africans and start beating them while the cameras roll. Then we get to watch them on TV while the black community riot. Those damn racist Koreans.

H. Kim
H. Kim
17 years ago

usinkiorea:
If you're so concerned about the civil rights of all these aggrieved African people in Korea, why don't you just call the Rev. Jesse Jackson, join the NAACP, write the ACLU, organize another "Million Man March" down the streets of Itaewon, file a complaint with the EEOC & bitch about it to the Civil Rights Division of the US Dept. of Justice?

And since when did you start giving a crap about the plight of poor Africans ever in your life? Maybe it all started the same day you arrived in Korea and found out that no one would call you on your hypocrisy? Probably before you came to Korea, you never gave a rat's ass about the rights of African Americans or had even the slightest consideration to the discrimination they experience on a daily basis in the U.S.

However, in Korea, you have no problem using such absurd allegations for your own convenience. Your hypocritical bleeding heart platitudes are really full of it if not totally unconvincing.

And btw, if you're going to go on complaining about bars in Korea that "discriminate" against your little Nigerian friends, why not go to Japan where the clubs where the bars and clubs there will accept foreigners with open arms? (Believe me, their more "racist" than Korean ones — with the exception of the foreigner bars in the Roppongi district of Tokyo.) Or how about some of the clubs in Munich, where they won't let anyone who isn't Caucasian enter? (I should know; I tried.)

In the meanwhile, you really ought do a little growing up, or some traveling to some other major cities, b/c you haven't convinced me that anything out of the ordinary is going on here.

And btw, I never said that Koreans file as many defamation lawsuits as Americans do. I just said that in a situation where someone is aggrieved — like this disgruntled bar patron — filing a lawsuit through the Korean court system is always an option.

Complaining to the media, on the other hand, especially by making disparaging public statements against a business using the business' name as well as your own name is just plain stupid. Like I said previosuly, to do so in Korea is to expose yourself to being held criminally and civily liable for such statements.

If this guy was really smart and concerned about protecting his own rights, he would've refrained from naming Hollywood's as the bar in question, as well as using his own name. I tell ya, this guy (the writer of the letter to the editor) is an idiot.

Also, any idiot can tell the difference between a Nigerian and an African American. There is no comparison. If African American GIs in Korea are getting caught in the fray, it's usually b/c they're getting into fights with some snot-nosed English teachers and bigotted Canadians. That, I have no problem with.

GI Korea
GI Korea
17 years ago

I think it was pretty clear that the bar tender didn't want Nigerians in the bar. Also according to the Korea Herald article I linked to, the owner of the bar is an American and he doesn't allow GI's in the bar either. He probably wants to keep an ex-pat friendly atmosphere in the bar which is his right to do. However, people denied service also have the right to tell others about it. I don't see how it is liable when the guy is just repeating what happened.

GI Korea
GI Korea
17 years ago

If these Nigerians are coming in under this loophole, how come the Korean government is doing nothing about it?

usinkorea
usinkorea
17 years ago

H. Kim,

I wasn't sure we were talking about the same Korea when oy went off on your own diatribe against a foreigner writing something bad in a newspaper about 1 particular business. You make Korea sound like the US as if Koreans are running around everywhere sueing each other for everything — including hurt feelings and bad words. Koreans sue each other all the time for liabless statements? Koreans hold back criticizing businesses? Because they can get sued in Korea's tough slander laws?

I'm suprised I never heard caught onto that the years I was there. Koreans didn't seem to me like they held their tounge much and it didn't seem to me like they turned an awful lot to the courts to solve their problems.

Then you say all Nigerians in Korea are drug runners —- 100%.

I guess you would argue that it's alright if they bar other black people from coming in too, like the black Americans serving in USFK. It's all deserved and Korea's perogative and all that.

Koreans have a problem with foreigners. Being white — thus from a western rich nation, isn't so bad. But if your tan skinned………

On the Nigerians being in the heart of Seoul, I'm not so sure it is all that odd. I used to work in Songnam and had an apartment just up the street from a 3-D foreign workers apartment building. I met a good number of north Africans, particularly from Morocco, and some Pakistani, and some black Africans, but I don't remember which country. It wasn't Nigeria. From what I could gather, although they lived in this building in Songnam, they went out each day to different areas for work. And, now that I think about it, not all of them were 3-D workers. I remember meeting two guys who were in the telecommunications industry.

Another thought, there was a couple of stories a few weeks ago when the "GIs behaving badly" string of news items came out.

The two stories about this one incident were written in the Korea Times Korean language edition, but they somehow failed to make it into the English version when they translated stories about the bastard GIs — including a list of the recent events. This one was strangely absent.

In the story, a GI (don't know if white or black) was in Inchon and tried to go into a bar, but the early 20 something bouncer at the door blocked his way and told him it was a place only for Koreans. And then the bouncer and manager and another worker, all in their 20s, got into an altercation with the GI.

Of course the GI was arrested. The first article made it sound like a huge fight broke out, but it also quoted the bouncer which made clear race was an issue in the event. The next day, the story was toned down and it did present the soldier's side saying he was racially discriminated against and that they laid hands on him first. Of course, there were no counter charges applied to the Koreans, because the police said they already had three statements and they didn't believe the GI. And of course, the three statements were from the 3 Koreans involved in the altercation.

In the huge brawl involving 30 something Irish expats in Itaewon where secruity people even used gas guns against them after a owner had them forced out because he wanted to close early on Chusok, the police also took 3 statements. 2 from the security people and 1 from a Korean female on the scene. They told the Irish they either had to make a statement on the spot or forget about it, then didn't take any of their statements.

Now, I guess I know why the main Korean press didn't print a single story about it. The way Kim makes Korea's liable laws sound, I guess they were afraid to get sued by the Korean business……

H. Kim
H. Kim
17 years ago

It's a known fact that that Nigerians in Korea are frauds who are able to get visas b/c of a loophole in the Foreign Investment Act (they transfer the requisite amount of foreign funds to Korea, get a business Visa, then liquidate the account upon arrival and melt into the Nigerian drug underworld enclaves of Itaewon).

Without exception, Nigerians in Korea are involved in the international drug trade. They come to Korea to seek out 'mules' — specifically college-aged Korean girls — who who get duped into transporting narcotics to and from SE Asia/S. American and Europe/N. America. Many of these girls have already been arrested in countries like Brazil, the Netherlands, Indonesia, etc., and are serving out long prison sentences. Who do they have to thank? Their friendly neighborhood Nigerian contacts that they met in the seedy bars of Itaewon.

I perfectly happy with any policy that penalizes or excludes these scumbags.

Tom
Tom
17 years ago

I have no problems banning Nigerians.

Maybe the Nigerians should reflect on why they're the only nationalities being banned? Why Nigerians only? Why not Egyptians or Indians?

Tom
Tom
17 years ago

SO what's so racist about this banning of Nigerians?
They're not banning Africans. They're not banning 3-D workers nor are they banning black people. The last time I checked Nigerians weren't a race. The establishment in question banned them for a good reason – because Nigerians were more of a trouble than they were worth. It's the establishments'decision to what is best for them.

Few years back I remember some drinking establishments in Thailand banning Korean customers. The Korean press headlined "ugly Koreans". Expats in Korea agreed and Koreans deserved to be banned because Koreans are inherently rude and they deserve to be treated like shit. But I didn't see anyone twisting themselves in knots over 'racism'.

H. Kim
H. Kim
17 years ago

Who said anything about usinkorea being "white"? That's your presumption — not mine.

On being obtuse, speak for yourself. I could barely make out your assorted incoherent ramblings. You sound like you have a 3rd grade education.

H. Kim
H. Kim
17 years ago

You're talking about suing for defamation, which includes libel and slander, which are common types of lawsuits in the U.S.

What I'm talking about is totally different.

What I'm talking about is being held criminally liable for making damaging statements against a business according to Korean law, whether those statements constitute libel or not.

Publicly disparaging a business or commercial interest in Korea can subject the person to being prosecuted for violating criminal law as well as being held responsible for any financial loss the business incurs as a result. We're not talking about getting sued here — we're talking about being indicted on criminal charges.

Why would making disparaging statements publicly against a business be considered a crime? In Korea, businesses are more than just a livelihood — it is the essence of someone's reputation and identity. And to cause a business owner to lose face publicly by broadcasting alleged wrongdoings publicly is to cause that person/business to lose face. To lose face in Korea incurs tremendous damages, both tangible and intangible. When that happens, claims for damages are usually forthcoming, and in the pro-business environment of Korea's legal system, person's who create such problems are usually held liable.

That's why the media in Korea is very careful about how they report negative things about companies or commercial enterprises. When they do, they usually say, "X company did such and such according to Mr. Y." This kind of caution is not uwarranted. It is done b/c producers and editors know that individuals — including media outlets –can be held criminally liable for spreading damaging information about a company, regardless of whether that information is considered libelous or not, which btw, is for the courts to decide, not Joe Public.

The fact that the complainant is not back home makes ALL the difference. Do the laws, regulations, customs and social norms of the U.S. apply in Korea? Absolutely not. (Korea is a sovereign country the last time I checked.)

Also, contrary to your statements, the Korean constitution says nothing about protecting people from racism and the freedom of speech and the press. You totally made that up!

Btw, how could the constitution contain such clauses when Korea has no tradition of racism? Unlike the U.S. and other western countries, the concept only became known about ten years ago. Before that, the average Korean had no opportunity to even talk about it, b/c there were so few foreigners living in Korea.

So while you keep on condemning Koreans for being "racist", look at yourself and the U.S. Ask yourself how long it took the U.S. to even address that racism existed. How long did it take? About 300 years of denial?

And have Americans, even now — in the 30 years since Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed — totally eliminated racism from their midst? No. It's an ongoing battle.

In the same token, it's unreasonable and hypocritical for you as a non-Korean to demand that Korea absorb 300 years of America's lessons and experience dealing with racism in less than a decade. So why don't you just take a chill pill and relax? Your bitching is unseemly and makes you seem like an ungrateful whiner!

dg611
dg611
17 years ago

H.Kim…I'm curious here. Have you been hanging around these nigerian people and buying (and using) the drugs you speak of? I agree with your comment about the Korean government on many issues (though I am curious how you can say such a thing and not worry about the can of 'legal whoopass' you mentioned before) but as anal as the Korean government is about immigration and issuing visas, I have to agree with GI that I think if there were something to your highly racist and inflamatory comment about Nigerian expats, immigration would be all over it. If they go to the trouble of running a sting on an English teacher teaching private lessons, I am sure they would figure this one out.

dg611
dg611
17 years ago

H.Kim…you have GOT to be kidding….legal reprocussions against what…an accusation of racism? It is true that you can sue someone who defames your business but you cant sue someone for telling the truth about your business or about an event….If the restaurant has bugs all over the walls and you tell someone that by the media…do you think that someone can sue for that? That would assume that the Korean constitution does not protect free speech or freedom of the press….since there were numerous witnesses to the event…the writer described the event in such a way that we can assume that he has enough to back up his claim of 'racism.'
The fact that the writer is not "back home" makes absolutely no difference…the Korean constitution and Korean laws also protect people from racism and protect the freedom of speech and the press…the problem is the antiquated legal system that makes it near impossible for the average joe to file a law suit unless he already has a bunch of money to begin with…laws exist…they just are not enforced.
The only way they could sue is if the person wrote something that could be proven as untrue.

usinkorea
usinkorea
17 years ago

And since when did you start giving a crap about the plight of poor Africans ever in your life?

Do you know me?

Or, since I'm not black, do you naturally assume I would instinctively have similar opinions about blacks as you?

"Maybe it all started the same day you arrived in Korea and found out that no one would call you on your hypocrisy? "

How about you pointing out my hypocrisy? Try it. I'd like to see it.

Give me something besides "you're white".

"Probably before you came to Korea, you never gave a rat's ass about the rights of African Americans or had even the slightest consideration to the discrimination they experience on a daily basis in the U.S."

Sounds to me like you are doing a common, human thing — assuming your view point is "natural" and thus what the common person would believe.

So, you jump to this outrage of some non-black sticking up for blacks, because obviously any right minded non-black would understand why judging a black by the color of his skins is only natural.

"However, in Korea, you have no problem using such absurd allegations for your own convenience. Your hypocritical bleeding heart platitudes are really full of it if not totally unconvincing."

Bleeding heart. That's funny. That's the first time anybody has ever accused me of being a bleeding heart.

And what absurd allegations are you specifically referring to?

"And btw, if you're going to go on complaining about bars in Korea that "discriminate" against your little Nigerian friends, why not go to Japan where the clubs where the bars and clubs there will accept foreigners with open arms? (Believe me, their more "racist" than Korean ones — with the exception of the foreigner bars in the Roppongi district of Tokyo.) Or how about some of the clubs in Munich, where they won't let anyone who isn't Caucasian enter? (I should know; I tried.)"

And your point is?

So, there are racists in Japan and Germany. And?
So, racist owners of bars in those places ban people based on skin color?

Your point again is what?

Racist business owners in Korea are thus excused?

"In the meanwhile, you really ought do a little growing up, or some traveling to some other major cities, b/c you haven't convinced me that anything out of the ordinary is going on here."

I'm grown up enough, thanks. And I've been around some. I've been around in Korea long enough and far enough to hear enough from Koreans about "black people" to know that anything I said in the orignial comment is not "absurd."

In dealing with prospective ESL instructors, I used to tell the white ones they might have one negative run in a year with a Korean with a chip on his shoulder if they took the time to go around and see the sites, but they would get far more positive speical treatment in shops and other places because they were a foreigner.

But, I told black instructors they should probably think about going somewhere else.

And now, it is your turn to prove that my idea Koreans have a problem with dark skinned foreigners is full of shit? That blacks and Southeast Asian and Middle Eastern foreigners in Korea don't face a hostile attitude based on skin color in Korean society.

Or, are you really going to stick with the idea that in Korea racisim is OK because racism is a problem in many places around the world?

"Complaining to the media, on the other hand, especially by making disparaging public statements against a business using the business' name as well as your own name is just plain stupid. Like I said previosuly, to do so in Korea is to expose yourself to being held criminally and civily liable for such statements."

When I start seeing news items where individuals and groups in Korea are routinely losing a lot of money in law suits for speaking out negatively in the press in Korea, I'll consider your point.

"There is no comparison. If African American GIs in Korea are getting caught in the fray, it's usually b/c they're getting into fights with some snot-nosed English teachers and bigotted Canadians. That, I have no problem with."

Don't have a problem with which part?

Don't have a problem with the Canadians being bigots?

So, you found a way to blame the black GIs for Koreans racism against them too. Big suprise.

Why didn't you bring up Rodney King and the LA Riots?

That is a hallmark justifiction for Korean racism.

I'm from Georgia. And I wonder how many times I heard from Korean businessmen or other Koreans who have travelled through Atlanta's airport say some derogatory about not likeing to have to meet so many blacks in the airport — about having to go through security where blacks would check them through?

But, you don't even try to make a case that Korean society doesn't have a very significant racism against black people.

You vaguely imply they don't by saying the Nigerians bring it on themselves because they are all —- all, 100% —- drug dealers.

And you say GI blacks bring it on themselves by getting into bar fights.

How did the blacks in Atlanta bring it on themselves?

Oh, I forgot. Rodney King and the LA rights. Stupid me. Both cities where in the US, so that must have earned the Korean biotry for all Americna blacks.

What I am saying is not absurd.

If you are black, and I don't care if you are African black or American black, Korea is not a great place to be in.

The Korean bigotry against blacks is not universal. "All Koreans" are not racists or prejudiced.

But Korean society as a whole surely is prejudiced against blacks and even dark skinned fellow Asians from poor South East Asian nations.

And so are people in other nations.

And you travel around a lot and are all grown up.

I wonder if you shake the hands of those Germans who won't let you into their bars? Shake their hands and smile and say, "I know how you feel. I can't stand black people myself. We're a lot alike in that way……."

H. Kim
H. Kim
17 years ago

Why aren't they doing anything about it? It's because the Korean gov't is expert at passing ill-conceived laws — especially to attract FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) — with little or no oversight. In other words, the Korean gov't has its head up its ass.

nobody
nobody
17 years ago

FYI

The American owner of the Hollywood bar (who was a veteran of the armed services himself) did ban/discourage military personnel from Hollywood. However, he was involved in a fatal motorcycle accident while on vacation. I don't know who the current owner is.

usinkorea
usinkorea
17 years ago

The guy who wrote the letter could be lieing. I have no way of knowing for sure. But he did state that the owner said they don't generally serve blacks.

Ths idea that if black GIs were also excluded, the crap would hit the fan isn't convincing for me.

Since it is Itaewon, a foreigner and soldier mecca, I can picture it that way.

But, from what little I've heard, it isn't terribly uncommon for soldiers to be turned out whether black or white — like in the Inchon case last month.

Tom
Tom
17 years ago

I happen to know that American owner. And their policy is definitely not "we don't serve black people". That's a blatant lie. If that's true, black USFK soldiers wouldn't have been served either and we would be in a broo ha ha hot pickle by now. Just think about it, why just Nigerians all of a sudden? Because 90% of the time, they just sit around, order no drinks, harass every women sexually, engage in fraudulant activity,and most importantly, drive away business. People are scared to go in have a safe drink. Good on the bar, enough of this political correctness.

usinkorea
usinkorea
17 years ago

I think the definition of race and racism can be stretched to fit this situation.

I would also include using statements like "Nigerians were more of a trouble than they were worth."

Or, "Koreans are inherently rude and deserve to be treated like shit."

That is racist in my book.

And in the original letter to the editor, the man says the manager told him they do not serve "black people in general."

usinkorea
usinkorea
17 years ago

Maybe I should have said white or hispanic. Kim assumed I wasn't Korean based on my remarks, and it would make no sense whatsoever if he thought I was black and wrote what he did. That narrows the choices down, and I'd place my money on him assuming I was white.

I would also give 10-1 odds he's a Korean-American or other non-native Korean-Korean.

If not, I tip my hat to you Kim, your English is excellent to the point of getting the common expressions like "bleeding heart" out without being awkward, and that level of fluency isn't reached by most people.

I might "understand" the historical and geographic reasons for Korean racism, and I know it happens everywhere — to varying degrees — but it doesn't make an excuse for it.

And jumping back and forth from justification based on it being everywhere, foreigners being relatively new in Korea, along with saying the minorities brought it on themselves clutters your argument too much.

And one thing I would point out. The manager or owner of the bar is American. I'm not cutting him any slack either. I wish he were running a place in the US so he would get sued and lose his ass.

H. Kim
H. Kim
17 years ago

And I'm pretty sure, based on your reading comprehension ability — or the lack thereof — that you have a third grade education. I will have to say this though, you certainly have a knack for making a lot of assumptions and falsely attributing them to others. Keep up the good work!

H. Kim
H. Kim
17 years ago

From the Korean Constitution:
Article 11 [Equality]

(1) All citizens are equal before the law, and there may be no discrimination in political, economic, social, or cultural life on account of sex, religion, or social status.
(2) No privileged caste is recognized or ever established in any form.
(3) The awarding of decorations or distinctions of honor in any form is effective only for recipients, and no privileges ensue therefrom.

Here you again making up things, which further supports the old adage that a lil' bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Contrary to your allegation, there is no provision against racism. Article 11 specifically states that "All citizens are equal before the law." That applies to Korean citizens. Are you a citizen of the Republic of Korea? No you are not. And even if you were, this statute only applies to being equally treated by the government — not Hollywoods, which is not the government. If Hollywoods, as a place of Public Accomodations wants to discriminate against you or anyone else on any basis whatsoever, that is their prerogative. Your constitutional rights vis-a-vis Hollywoods are not guaranteed, i.e., you have no rights.

dg611
dg611
17 years ago

I know it is an English translation and therefore not the 'real' thing but you can find the Korean constitution at: http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/ks00000_.html

If you read carefully you will find that there are provisions for the prevention of racism. Particularly article 6 which states:
(1) Treaties duly concluded and promulgated under the Constitution and the generally recognized rule of international law have the same effect as the domestic laws of the Republic of Korea.
(2) The status of foreigners is guaranteed as prescribed by international law and treaties.

part two means that Korean law does have provisions against racism because it belongs to international treaties that make it illegal.

Also article 11 states.

(1) All citizens are equal before the law, and there may be no discrimination in political, economic, social, or cultural life on account of sex, religion, or social status.

There may be some question as to the status of foreigners since they are not technically 'citizens' but the point here is that the constitution DOES provide for laws preventing racism since everyone is "equal before the law" which is similar to the same provision in the US constitution that made the civil rights amendment(s) possible.

Silly Sally
Silly Sally
17 years ago

I side with H. Kim and Tom.

USA in Korea is a helpless victim of the multicult… and should be patronized gently.

Korean government – due to ineptness and corruption – lacks the competency to regulate business owners.

Thus, allowing Korean proprietors discretion to rightly protect their business interests from unwanted elements… based on their own street smarts.

One reason why Koreans claim Korea is a land of freedom … and America the land of over-regulated slaves.

A large contingent of the Nigerians in Itaewon are nefarious elements — their presence in bars creates a nervous environment for its customers.

They just happen to be black.

The Korean Immigration allows their stays in Korea, in the same way this suspicious agency allows the Russian mafia and Russian call girls to proliferate in Korea. $$$$$$

George Bush
George Bush
17 years ago

If you guys think to call that a bar your living in another world. Wake up and smell the coffee.It’s run by Mafia and the girls there are sex-slaves get real

Former us/korea lias
15 years ago

The reason for the racism is motivated by historical events. Ive talked to many bar owners that tell you if you let Nigirians in the bar peoples purses turn up missing but before that it was a place you could leave your wallet on the bar or table for hours. Also they order one drink and hit on every women in the bar even your friends all night long. Not the happy place your group is looking for. Ive seen this a dozen times. Many nigirians dont do this but many do so it makes bars openly ban them. Also they hang out in groups and dont speak english well. So if you want a group of people in the bar not speaking english selling drugs from time to time and stealing stuff once and a while hitting on all the shy korean girls you have an open nigirian policy. Or you dont. After talking with bar owners they said after banning nigirians there were no reports of missing anything for years.

Jack
Jack
13 years ago

Alright, I don’t condone racial profiling of any type, and I think that this is something that should be discussed. However, as someone who has worked and lived in Seoul for over two years, I can tell you this. I lived in Apgujeong but spent my nights and weekends in Itaewon and Hongdae (for the most part). During my whole time in Korea, I never witnessed a single fight outside of Itaewon. Every fight I witness was involving USFK personnel. That being said, I can certainly understand why many bar and club owners want to have nothing to do with USFK.

ChickenHead
ChickenHead
13 years ago

racial profiling is somewhat perverse

perhaps there is little that's worse

but on the other hand,

it's easy to understand

'cause it's rare that a Jew steals a purse

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