Remembering June 13, 2002
Today is the 5th anniversary of the 2002 Armored Vehicle Accident that killed two 13 year old Korean school girls Shim Mi-son and Shin Hyo-sun. This tragedy would ultimately end up being a singular event that has impacted the US-ROK Alliance forever. For those that know little about this accident I highly recommend you read USinKorea’s round up and analysis of the reporting on the accident by the Korean media and the follow on xenophobic behavior by the Korean public. I also highly recommend you read this account of what happened that day by then SPC Josh Ray who was driving the vehicle just ahead of the armored vehicle that was involved in the accident. Contrary to all the propaganda put out by the Korean media and NGOs the soldiers involved in that accident had a very human response to an undeniable tragedy that I’m sure none of them will ever forget.
With that said I did decide recently to drive out to the scene of the accident and take a few pictures of the area and the memorial that was established the 2nd Infantry Division in remembrance of Shim Mi-son and Shin Hyo-sun:
The memorial is quite nice and sits just on a slope of the hill overlooking the scene of where the accident took place on Highway 56 in rural northern Kyeongi Province. Here is the inscription in the memorial in both English and Korean:
As you can see this is quite a nice memorial rightfully constructed by the 2nd Infantry Division in remembrance of what happened. However, what is sad to see, but what I am quite frankly not surprised about, is that the memorial has been hijacked by the anti-US groups who have put up their own plaques and markers to promote their own anti-US causes at a place that should be a memorial and not a place for politics:
The SOFA related plaque above is one of my favorites and if I was as disgusting and as insensitive as the anti-US groups I would put up my own plaque right next to this one asking why when ROK Army soldiers commit accidents or crimes while on and even off duty they are not tried in civilian courts but in ROK Army courts? Compare this to the fact that US soldiers are tried in Korean courts for crimes or accidents committed while off duty and tried in military courts for crimes and accidents that happened while on duty. I would also ask why when the ROK Army deploys soldiers over seas why they have a SOFA Agreement that gives their soldiers full immunity from any civilian courts of that host nation? A perfect example of this is in Iraq when a ROK soldier accidently shot and killed a Kurdish Peshmerga soldier when fooling around with his weapon. No Kurdish courtroom for him. Then also in Iraq a Korean soldier had a vehicular accident that killed a Kurdish governmental official, once again it was handled by the ROK military according to their SOFA agreement.
Then I would also put on the plaque that despite popular opinion US soldiers have been tried in South Korean courtrooms since the 1960’s. Though US soldiers have been tried in Korean courts for decades after this accident most Koreans thought the SOFA Agreement allowed US soldiers to get away with crimes in Korea and fly back to America which is absolutely not the case. I have argued with Koreans before about the SOFA issue and not one can explain the inconsistencies I have listed above because such facts are completely not reported in the Korean media while rumor and innuendo are.
Here are a few more signs for everyone to look at:
Here is what the view over Highway 56 from the memorial looks like:
As you can see this is a busy road that used regularly by both civilian and ROK Army vehicles. The vehicle in the far left of the picture is a ROK Army vehicle. This road leads to the primary military training area in Kyeongi province known as Twin Bridges. It was this training area that the convoy of vehicles involved in the 2002 accident were heading towards. When looking at the above picture it is important to realize that this is not what the road looked like in 2002. This is what it did look like:
Walked down to ground level from the memorial and took this picture looking towards the west:
Then I took this picture looking towards the east:
As you can see the road has been significantly widened by cutting out the hillside on each of side of the road and then most importantly installing a sidewalk. The simple installation of a sidewalk along that highway in 2002 would have prevented the accident that happened. This is a fact that is completely overlooked and ignored. It is easier to completely blame the two soldiers involved in the accident instead of the Korean government sharing in some of the responsibility of what happened. I have always felt that the 2nd Infantry Division was partly responsible for what happened and has done everything possible to make amends for this tragic accident. To this day to division sends soldiers to help the families with the harvest of their crops or any other needs the families have. What has the anti-US groups or the Korean government done for these people? Nothing, accept in the case of the NGOs where they have hijacked these two girls memorial.
The Korean government has never accepted responsibility for creating an environment that was literally an accident waiting to happen. Back than many of the roads in northern Kyeongi province where military traffic (both ROK & US) travel on to training areas were extremely narrow, filled with traffic and pedestrians, and had no sidewalks. Heck where the accident happened there was hardly even a shoulder on the road. Since then the government has improved many of the roads in the area, but still to this day many of the roads are still inadequate for military traffic. Even on Highway 56 there are still many areas in need of sidewalks that have not been installed yet.
A perfect example of the current poor infrastructure is on road 364 that leads to a military training area that is not far from where the 2002 accident took place:
This road is extremely dangerous due to its narrow size, traffic, and pedestrians. I pulled off onto a dirt road leading to a rice paddy to take this picture. I had to because there was no shoulder to park on. Here is a picture looking at a turn on the road:
Notice the mirror that is needed to traverse the corner. Now try to picture military traffic trying to traverse this road much less this corner. Than not only do you have a difficult road to drive on but you also have civilians walking and parking their vehicles along the road:
What you see on this road today is similar to what the soldiers in 2002 were driving on with Highway 56 plus those soldiers had been out in the field for two weeks with little sleep combined with a radio problem in the AVLB involved in the accident. There was definitely leadership issues on the US military’s responsibility for this accident which lead to commanders and other leadership being relieved and their careers being ended, but to this day the Korean government has never accepted responsibility for their own part in this accident and to this day has not improved all the roads in the area used by military traffic.
Additionally the Korean government also has responsibility in improving basic safety for civilians in general in Korea as the country continues to be the most deadly OECD nation to drive in. Traffic accidents in Korea are especially deadly for children. Unfortunately no NGO felt like putting up a plaque at the memorial site to advocate for improved road safety in Korea, but instead felt compelled to put up pro-North Korea plaques instead.
With all the politics and demagoguery involved over the 2002 accident many people have lost sight of the fact two girls were tragically killed on the side of this road. I sincerely offer the families of Shim Mi-son and Shin Hyo-sun my condolences and hope that some day that these two girls can rest in peace.
DELETED – INAPPROPRIATE COMMENT
Darwin, That's a bit rough. They were a product of their culture. I seem to remember that kids in the ROK can hold out their hand and expect traffic to stop for them. Granted, I would have been watching ANYTHING that was bigger than me. But they didn't have that experience.
Just another example of a reason to leave Korea to her northern Brothers. I was at Stanley when it happened. It changed my feelings about the country. Their inability to understand what had happened. Why defend a country such as this any longer. I know, I know. To ensure peace between it and China. Tired of it. Let China have them.
Thanks for the writeup GI, and nice pics!
Dan, that's also a bit rough isn't it? The tragic inattentiveness of two schoolgirls shouldn't be all it takes to change one's feelings about a country, should it?
Btw, pedestrians in Japan also hold up their hands when crossing the street. I always thought it was funny how they seem to think it makes them invincible, but that's culture. Doesn't seem to impede their ability to defend themselves (the Japanese) as a nation.
Interesting perspective: Two Dead girls and its a funny little story about two dumb girls.
Seems to me this is more about a funny little story about a dumb poster on ROKDROP
"Shouldn't be all it takes to change ones feelings about a country should it?"
hydralist, your right. It should take more than that. You must have missed the part that stated that I was stationed in 2id at that time. SO, it probably included the looks of hate I received on the subway That I traveled often and alone. "If it had been two of us, it would have been worse".
AT least untill we were ordered NOT to use the subway. WHAT? It is too dangerous for Americans to use the subway. You mean the Koreans don't understand what an accident is. What do you mean, They want to hurt americans Sir?
Lock-down? Lock down! You mean Camp Stanley is now a Prison Camp?
June 2002 till Jan2004 in korea was no picknick.
What kind of a mindless deadhead would I have to be, for it not to affect me, hydralist?
As for Japan or Korea defending themselves. Nither do. That is America's job.
Neither
I was in Korea from 15 June to ~20 August 2002, staying in Shincheon, and did not have one single incident related to that accident or even see any related protests. Why? The World Cup hype was more important (and some of those rallies were a bit on the spooky side of nationalistic). After that was over, everyone had time to get mad about the girls who’d died over two months before. It’s all about the priorities.
Glad you were OK Richardson. All we got at Stanley was doom and gloom. That is what happens when the Battlion and company COs know nothing about where they are.
Don't know why you escaped any protest. Little Camp Stanley had its shair. Nothing like the riots in Seoul, I admitt.
I was there for school and living in a ha-suk-chip near Ehwa and Yonsei. Did a lot of walking and traveled to other cities almost every weekend. After the initial reports I don’t remember seeing much about the two girls, related to anti-Americanism, until later in August. But I wasn’t near any posts or bases, so may have missed them.
June Anniversaries on the Korean Peninsula…
Over at ROK Drop, GI Korea has the must read post on, “the 5th anniversary of the 2002 Armored Vehicle Accident that killed two 13 year old Korean school girls Shim Mi-son and Shin Hyo-sun.†The post has several photos of the memorial setup by the…
Sad history. Hope this does not happen again.
My Observations:
1. The press/politician-inspired anti-Americanism was much more noticed by GIs who received most of their information through a panic-driven chain of command. In "normal" Korea it was a sensitive issue to discuss with "normal" Koreans but it did not affect daily life, safety or interactions with the Korean population.
It remains a misrepresentation that "Korea is anti-American" when the schoolgirl protests were a relatively small number of people (compared to total population) fanned by the media and politicians who's agendas weren't/aren't necessarily based on true, heartfelt anti-Americanism.
2. USFK handled the situation VERY poorly. The most noticeable was pressing charges against the drivers… which indicated to Koreans that they were guilty of something. This decision betrayed the trust of BOTH angry Koreans and hard-working GIs.
I'm guessing the "leader" who instigated these charges did it to defuse the situation long enough for him to get to his next assignment and dodge any responsibility. The new guy who took his place inherited the mess… and, therefore, was able to dodge responsibility.
3. The girls should not have stood in the road. I understand the odd trust that Korean pedestrians have of drivers… but… there was plenty of room to stand next to the road. Regardless of culture, "common" sense would indicate the big, loud metal things tearing up the pavement in both directions could somehow be dangerous.
If you haven't seen the situation, here are some pictures (WARNING: GRAPHIC)
http://www.nodong.com/zero/zboard.php?id=gallery&…
If that doesn't work, Google "usa tank kill korean girls".
J!
Simply put, the two girls were walking 'with the traffic', vice the commonly taught method of 'against the traffic'. This was a significant contibuting factor.
School children are taught to raise their hands when crossing the roads, and not when simply walking along the roads.
CH, I saw many copys of that picture near the exit of UiJung-bu subway before I and Camp Stanley were put on lockdown. Nice feeling to walk past those and have koreans turn and look at you the way they did. I am still sure that the only reason I was not harmed is because I was alone. No glory in beating a lone GI.
I disagree that the anti-american feeling is only a small percent of the population. That is the same line that my CO gave us, while locking down the Camp. So he didn't believe it either. I told the korean girl that worked in the MWR on base, what the CO had said. She smiled and told me the anti-american group was more like 70% of population. She also guickly added that it was not directed at individual persons but at the collective as a whole. Of course that was before two GIs were kidnapped from the subway.
In general, I like your points CH.
I have learned from the korean media that what actually pissed of the koreans was not only the accident itself, but also, and problably the main reason, was the way how the matter was handled by the american government.
First of all I would like to say that I don´t know much about this issue and have no intention to take antecipated part of any side, whether korea or USA, also the only thing i know about it is what I have read in korean papers, which you guys say are biased or influenced by the anti-american feelings.
The papers says that the american soldiers were sent out of korea to avoid trial in korea. Is it true? Can anybody explain me? I just want to heard your side of the history before I make my own judgement.
I know that accidents happen anywhere and as some of you said the anti-american groups may have influenced the people to act so harsh toward the americans, so I assume that the fact may have been different from what the korean media said. If anybody care about my request thanks, but if not, no problem.
Dr.Yu,
You are encouraged to visit:
http://www.usinkorea.org/1st/TRAGEDY/index.html
From what I can determine, this web page provides an accurate time line of the events.
After researching the sources cited there, I believe that a fair conclusion taht can be drawn is that the details surrounding the accident and its aftermath were wantonly misreported by the major Korean media. The Seoul regime, I believe, supported this egregiously biased reporting.
Talk about 'yellow journalism'! (Pun intended.)
I was told by some Korean friends that much of the bad feeling was related to the fact that it was an election year. The current Korean President, (I was told), got elected on the Anti-American ticket. Repeatedly stating that he would get Americans out of Korea.
He hasn't done what he said he would do. Sadly.
Dr. Yu,
Michael's link is a good place to read the various media reports from 2002 on what happened. There is a lot of factors that added up to what happened on that day. Sadly the only focus of the Korean media and the anti-US hate groups was on lynching the two soldiers involved in the accident.
The reporting of the accident was totally biased and fanned by Korean politicians hoping to demagogue the issue for political advantage in that years presidential election. Additionally Korea was in its post World Cup euphoria which sent nationalism to an all time high. All of these factors led to xenophobic hate like I have never seen before.
What is really interesting is that the hate didn't begin until after the World Cup and the final push for the presidential elections. In the immediate aftermath of the accident nobody cared, only months later did the hate begin. What is even more interesting is that on June 29th, 2002 one day before the closing ceremony of the World Cup the North Koreans carried out a highly planned ambush of a ROK naval vessel murdering 6 sailors and wounding 18:
http://rokdrop.com/2006/06/29/korean-government-a…
The North Koreans conducted this operation in order to draw attention away from Korea's success at the World Cup. Very few people cared about this deliberate murder of South Korean sailors and yet worked their way into a xenophobic fury over a tragic traffic accident which the US military and even the American president apologized over, payed compensation to the families according to Korean law for, and implemented many new safety policies.
First, thanks to GI Korea and DPRK Studies for the plugs.
Next, with the recent shift in the US back to the status quo pre-2001, nothing will change. They are back in Chickenhead territory. We just had Victor Cha tell us that regime change in NK was never an option because the military option was never an option – and we all know those are exactly the same.
And in South Korea, the majority of South Koreans don't want USFK to leave, and the vast majority of South Koreans don't participate in street demonstrations….see…..no problems here. All is well. Go back into your homes…..
Donald Rumsfeld's corpse isn't even cold yet….
South Korean society below the age of 70 uses anti-US/USFK feeling as a foundation for Korean nationalism. They view the US relationship as a "necessary evil" and they feel better about Korea by accentuating the "evil" part. They view the US as a "cancer" on Korean society – a cancer they can't cut out – yet —– yada yada yada….
I need to put this on audio and just provide links to the broken record.
It makes absolutely no difference if I am 102% right or not. Korean society only raises the anti-US fury up to the level that it will not come back to hurt them, and the US movers-n-shakers couldn't care less….Nor the American media or society.
One day, North Korea will begin to collapse and it will be a coin toss whether it goes down swinging or not. So, year after year, the US will not only be willing to "endure" South Korea's version of nationalism, we'll be waiting for a bloodletting too….
Fine….Why piss into the wind?
Koreans aren't pulling soldiers off the streets each year and chopping off their heads……things must be fine…
For 2002-early 2003, however, you can check GI Korea's work here on how it was as far as everything but he head chopping stuff.
I was in Korea then from Summer to early 2003. I took trains and subways A LOT everyday. Normally, travelling around often alone in Korea from 1996 to 2000 would result in 1 maybe 2 "incidents" which I always walked away from.
In those 6-9 months in 2002-2003, I had about 6 to 10 incidents and maybe some minor ones. DPRK Studies probably remembers my long tirade about one of them on my old blog when I had a very drunk Korean (who I could have slaughtered if chosen) follow me the length of a train pushing and pulling on me when he caught me at the doors until I found a conductor. I do happily report 1 Korean man tried to stop the guy as it started.
I had a caretaker at a traditional Korean school (near Paju) I was visiting for research beg me to fight him by screaming at me twice for several minutes with red face and clinched fists…
The rest were were roughly similar. Then there were the less-than-full deck subway riders who generally cause you a little concern but when the whole society is whipping itself into a frenzy……
Eventually, I started taking the express buses and taxis, which cut down on the reading time I wanted to enjoy via the trains….
And people will say, "Ah. That is why he thinks Korean society is anti-US. Because of those isolated incidents."
No. I've said since day-1 post-2002 (and during it) that 2002 was abnormal. South Korea let itself get carried away.
What I learned teaching Korean adults from 1996-2000 was – they know extremely well how to play the anti-US game. It is for internal consumption only. It should never harm Korean society – like forcing USFK to think about leaving or making it into the foreign press…
And as long as they aren't lynching GIs or Americans in the street – the press and American government are happy to play along (actively).
Korean side is whoring the US out. It is that simple. And our government feels it is justified.
As long as SK fears the North, which they will as long as it survives, they will enjoy the US protection and the fun of bending Uncle Sam over periodically….
And Uncle Sam is determined to say "Thank you, may I have another….we need to be here….."
Which I guess is fine….
But, one day, the North will collapse.
Then there is a coin-toss on whether it will strike out or not. Probably it will strike out. Then, I guess it will also be fine, because the American people are so ignorant of the situation in SK, they will simply see all the GI bodybags and not the whoring that went on before…..
There are a lot of factors involved in 2002 and in 2000 and in 1998 and in 1995 and in 1993 and in 1989 and so on back to pre-1945. The Korean War started by the North won over the loyalty of a sizable chunk of South Korean society, but there was an active, influencial base against the US (imperialism) even back then, and since NK's economy collapsed, and the NK threat has dropped, and the Korean War generation has eased out the door, that good will has dropped and the relationship has become one dominated by cynical usage at best.
Whatever the complexity of the situation, it can still be made crystal clear and reduced to a nutshell…
As GI Korea and Richardson pointed out —-
The World Cup, and especially how powerful SK felt when its team did so well, greatly explains when the society decided to explode and why it grew to such a fury.
The WC item was more important than the election – though the election was a factor too…
Dr. Yu, google the Stars and Stripes. They have extensive coverage from 2002-2003, and the S&S is a military paper, and favorable to GIs and the military, but it also has some of that same "press" idea we have in American society. I exchanged some emails with one or more of the reporters for S&S who covered the court martial of the 2 soldiers and other events back then, and they were certainly not acting like mouth-pieces of the US military in Korea.
As for the soldiers being rushed out of Korea – they were court martialled – which I agree with Chickenhead was a HUGE mistake. It was sure to solve nothing and only make things worse —
—- if there was enough evidence of a crime against them, then certainly, put them on trial per SOFA no matter what. But, since the USFK prosecutors have a high conviction rate (as far as I could tell – which I think is also the norm in the US in general – you should bring a case to trial unless you are sure the person is guilty and you can prove it)….they should have refused to prosecute if they didn't think there was clearly enough evidence to win a conviction.
On when the soldiers left, as I remember it, and it is vague, one of the GIs was slated to rotate out near the end of the court martial or soon after anyway.
The other, I think, wasn't slated to rotate out for some time, though not too many months after, I think, but he was transferred out.
South Korean society can use that as an excuse for rage. They use everything else. But it is bullshit. The rage went on before and after the man was transferred.
We don't even have to get into consideration of facts like:
The USFK press spokesman that was seen on TV a lot and whose name was quoted a lot due to his job —– was sliced with a knife in an attempted stabbing as he walked through an underground tunnel on the way to Yongsan around this time period.
That was just 1 of several reported attacks.
(This is MONTHS after 3 US soldiers were attacked on the subway in Seoul and 1 forced to attend a large anti-US rally – during the peak of the 1st of the 2 waves of hatred).
We might also note that fliers were uploaded on the popular anti-US sites and then the even more popular average Korean web-locations where people mix about…..
The same fliers were passed out around the bases and at the protests and were blown up into demonstration posters —
They showed the pictures of the two soldiers with the world "Wanted" printed on them – like in the cowboy days in the US – complete with a "Reward" for capture dead or alive….
So, perhaps getting the soldier out of Korea made some common sense.
There is some room for optimism, however.
There is at least a real, but small chance that the utter fear Donald Rumsfeld and the World media put into Korean society in 2003 has lasted long enough to sprout some roots.
The GNP will probably be elected to the Blue House this year. Whatever the case, if SK elects another president who uses anti-Americanism as a key campaign plank in his platform, I'll die of a heart attack.
(This shouldn't actually be looked at as optimistic, however. Even under Park Chung Hee, there was a pattern of Korean society being confident the Blue House would "do what was in Korea's best geopolitical/security interests) while members of the National Assembly and society could thus feel free to break America's balls).
The most hopeful sign to me has been what appears to be a small growth in conservative student groups at Korean universities.
As the Korean War generation dies off, if a replacement group is starting to rise, that is good news….
But, overall all ——
I predict it will not take reaching 2010 before we see another spike in general anti-US venting in which the majority of the society participates in some form.
It will NOT look like 2002. It won't look like 2000. But, just look back to the 1990s or something like the Ohno Olympic frenzy to get an idea of what it will look like.
But, don't worry, it will only last 2 to 8 weeks. Plenty of time to re-mind the society as a whole how big a burden the US is on Korean society –
– but not enough to convince the US to do anything.
(the reason I feel bold enough to make a prediction is — South Korean society must be internallizing all the changes that have taken place in the US since the last US election. They must be growing confident all the chances USFK was leaving have been wiped out with the death of Rumsfeld and the flipflop of the Bush administration on Korean police – both North and South.
In short, I am sure South Korean society feels it can breathe easier under the US security blanket.
It will only be a matter of timing and mixing together the right formula of events for another anti-US spike of significant proportions to come.
I am not convinced a "spike" hasn't already occured (possibly FTA related or back in the spring and summer of 2005), but I am too far away, and no longer teaching Korean adults, to tell.
The spike I predict will come before 2010 at the latest, however, will be of the variety that you can notice from afar…..
(but since I predicted NK would collapse before 2009 – my 2010 SK prediction could collapse as well…..)
usinkorea.
I am impressed! I am Not impressed often.
Thank you GI, Michael Sheehan and USINKOREA. I will read your comments.
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I was in Korea at Camp Castle 2002-2003, 2nd Engineers, when this happened. It is an unfortunate incident and can vouch for the accuracy of the facts presented. This article presented some things I hadn’t heard, like the girls’ names and their plans for that day (I always wondered what they were doing in the middle of nowhere). Not that names weren’t important, it’s possible names could have gotten lost in the details of how it happened (so it can be prevented).
The battalion master driver at the time teaching us all how to drive HEMTT was part of the investigation and described the scene…too gruesome to mention here…my company was coming back from the field–we were already loaded up and were coming up on duty assignment. In other words we would have gone anyway to help Camp LaGuardia (across from Division HQ) and CRC. I’ll never forget the sound of the sirens, the company formation, the briefing, and the signing out of weapons again in prep to liberate our brothers and sisters. Nothing ever came of it
Life for American soldiers got even more interesting after this incident.
“Life for American soldiers got even more interesting after this incident.”
Life for any Western-looking foreigner got interesting…One of my favorite photos from the period was some European-looking guy with a t-shirt with “I’m not an American” written in Korean on it.
OP:
I rarely read this important aspect of the incident. At the time, it seemed to me it was not merely an accident, but an accident waiting to happen.
Back then, I read this in the USFK media, but when I went searching for information on who got what happening to them, I couldn’t find specifics. Such information, if true, would have gone a long way toward alleviating some of the anger felt by the general public (i.e., not the chinboistas who were hell bent on milking this issue for all it was worth), as the general public largely felt that no one got punished for this accident that was wholly preventable and seemed to have occurred due to a considerable amount of reckless neglect.
The US (and SK) military will have to use civilian roads in the event of war. It makes perfect sense to me to have the soldiers who are going to do that fighting have some experience on them (in case it does happen). I know I have seen Korean tanks on civilian roads during a period of military exercises.
I do believe the people in the armored vehicle should have pulled out of formation to fix the communication system or gotten carried in.
I also think the 2 girls should have crossed to the other side of the road or walked up the embankment until the column had passed since it was the third or fourth vehicle in it that hit them.
The road was not some highly trafficed, high pedestrian city street.
Given the level of fury Korean society unleashed for so long, it is easy to overreat and throw around terms like “reckless neglect” and even for USFK to start throwing away people’s careers.
It was a tragic accident.
It was ONE tragic accident.
It was a tragic accident in a country with roads and conditions and drivers that produce the highest amount of pedestrian deaths among OECD nations.
Doing something like outlawing all training on civilian roads for armored vehicles would be the kind of stupid mistakes we have come to expect from politicians.
It would make FAR, FAR more people live in danger than were effected by this one accident.
I’d feel safer knowing the soldiers here to defend the country (American, South Korean, and whoever), have at least some minimal experience on roads they would have to use if the North decided to commit suicide by cop…
@36 – It is not an unrare occurrence to have a commo problem in a large metal vehicle bouncing around on a road. They had an intermittent problem that they thought was fixed that ended up happening again during the convoy. The lack of sleep was a leader issue but during military training it was not uncommon to have little sleep. However, when doing this type of training in the US units are on remote military land where in Korea you are often surrounded by Koreans. At the time many leaders failed to adjust the way they did things based off of their state side mentality and MG Honore was one of them.
The accident was an accident waiting to happen but like I wrote about in my GI Myths article it was a combination of many factors not just on the US side. In the 2ID area at the time there was narrow roads and few sidewalks for pedestrians which forced them to walk on the roads. Then you add in the fact that Koreans were often oblivious to military traffic, I can remember numerous times when a Korean talking on the cell phone or just simply not looking stepped in front of my bradley. Fortunately our radio worked and we had time to stop but it still scared the heck out of us because we could of ended up being just like Nino and Walker.
So in this accident you had all these factors come together that killed these two girls. Since these girls were killled sidewalks and roads have been greatly expanded and the military has implemented much better safety procedures. Korean pedestrians though are still mostly oblivious but the improved roads, sidewalks, and safety procedures helps mitigate this problem.
As far as the reprimands here is the Joong Ang Ilbo article that lays out who was reprimanded:
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=1912434
GI,
I’m in TDC, what is the highway number of that road? I wanna go up and see the memorial.
Thanks
Bones
in 2003 and after the election dokdo mania started up again. I was like “thank you japanese right wingers! Now the koreans are off my ass!” So remember, when anti american sentiment picks up, ask about dokdo!
Part of my point in number 37 was meant to be that, if a person believes that there was a considerable amount of reckless neglect on the part of the soldiers in the tank and/or up the chain of command in USFK, then the soldiers should have been found guilty in the court martial or a Korean court of law. Period.
I understand there is the natural tendancy to want o bridge the gap between the incredible fury of the Korean people and the US presence in Korea, but offering sacrificial lambs is not the way to go.
If reckless neglect was involved, then I am sure it fits the statutory definition of one or more serious criminal laws involving deaths.
Of course there were many contributing factors as to why the event took place. There are for any event that takes place. The question is whether or not you believe this or that or a combination of factors reached the level of a breach in law – if we are going to use terms like recless neglect.
@39 – The memorial is located on Highway 56. Just travel south on 3 from TDC and about halfway between Uijongbu and TDC you will see the intersection where you will need to take a right on to 56. You have to drive a ways down the road before you reach the memorial and also keep your eyes open for it because when I went there wasn’t a marker designating it as being there. I drove by it the first time and then turned around and spotted it the second time. Let us know if there has been any significant changes.
@41 – There is a difference between reckless neglect and criminal neglect. The unit leadership however was given reprimands because of violating safety procedures which was deemed reckless but not criminal. That is why they were given general levels of reprimands that effectively ended their careers.
For the civilian folks, if you get those letters then when it comes time for the promotion boards, you’ll usually get passed over for promotion the higher up you hard in the ranks. Get passed over for promotion twice and you’re out as an officer. As Retired GI said, they basically fired them EVEN THOUGH it sounds to a civilian like a slap on the wrist.
I don’t know. It could start to sound like hairsplitting. Procedures are not laws, but if the procedures were ignored, the procedures covered saftey, then it might be the duty of a jury to decide whether it violates laws concerning things like manslaughter…
It reminded me of the bad police department I worked for. They had lots of SOPs – the vast majority of which you had never read nor were trained on. But, if you got sued, which happens to cops from time to time, the city would whip out an SOP to justify firing you thus freeing them from Liability – because Liability was far, far more important than crime to the city. Costs were second. You could get fired for a having a single vehicle accident – and when you are driving around 8 hours a day, 5 days a week policing, chances are you might have an accident at some point.
This also reminds me of the OJ trials. In the American system, you can be found innocent in a criminal court of stabbing a woman to death by your own hands but turn around to be found financially liable for the same stabbing of a woman to death by your own hands in a civil court…
Oh, and you can be tried AGAIN for it under UCMJ.
Constitution Smonstitution Soldier!
@45 – You have to remember that the guys given reprimands were not the ones driving the vehicle. That is what prevents them from being criminally liable. If your wife told you to drive faster than the speed limit to get home quicker because dinner was almost done and you get in accident because of speeding and kill someone is your wife criminally liable?
I’d probably think so… 😳
Seeing the 2ID memorial and the anti-American signs reminds me of the propaganda leaflets we used to find when I was in Korea. The NK leaflet were on poor quality paper with line drawings of the US “imperialists” controlling the SK government. The SK leaflets were on a glossy paper with color photos and the one I kept has quotes from a couple of defectors about the NK government. The 2ID memorial is a well done memorial, showing their respect & concern for the accident, the anti-American signs are on cardboard or wood (except the SOFA sign, it appears to be stone) and show signs of wear & tear.