A Public Policy Polling (PPP) national survey conducted between February 20th and February 22nd of Republican voters, found that an astonishing 57 percent of Republicans want to dismantle the Constitution, and establish Christianity as the official national religion. Only 30 percent oppose making Christianity the national religion.
While a number of red states have passed statutes forbidding the implementation of Islam-based sharia law in their states, Republicans apparently have no misgivings about turning the United States into a Christian theocracy. The poll’s crosstabs reveal that support for making Christianity the official religion is strongest among Mike Huckabee (94 percent), Rick Perry (83 percent), and Ben Carson (78 percent) supporters.
Ben Carson is the preferred presidential candidate of those who want to impose Christianity on the nation with 24 percent support. Mike Huckabee and Scott Walker are tied for 2nd place at 16 percent. Scott Walker (35 percent) and Jeb Bush (22 percent) are the leading candidates among GOP voters who do not want to establish a national religion.
What Leon didn’t mention is that PPP is a Democratic polling organization and this “survey” had a sample size of only 316 Republican primary voters from an undisclosed location.
There should be more consideration on how this poll was conducted before it is given the instant credibility the media has raced to give it.
Denny
9 years ago
Mob of teens attack bystander who tries to break up brawl inside Brooklyn McDonald’s
2. Regardless of your personal opinion, it shows a dangerous trend which should alarm all of us, including religious folks. Just because it is a democratic poll, it doesn’t automatically invalidate it. This is also the normal sampling for such a poll though on the low end.
You cannot deny you have detected these people’s existence. You can usually find them hanging out with the Tea Party. Any number above 1 from any size group favoring this position is alarming. This is not “made up.” To deny this mindset exists is folly. It isn’t the caliphate we have to worry about.
tbonetylr
9 years ago
GOP Attacks Pope and believe he should not get involved in politics(you know…like GOP’ers separate church and state SOOOOOOOOOOOOO remarkably! And they’re angry because…the Pope called the Palestinian leader an ‘‘Angel Of Peace.’ AND… because Vatican Recognizes Palestinian State (May 13, 2015)…AND Pope Condemns War Profiteers: ‘Industry Of Death’ (May 12, 2015) http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/israel-hawks-to-pop-francis-stay-out-of-politics-117929.html#ixzz3aFuW0E00
“After Pope Francis moved to recognize a Palestinian state, some gung-ho defenders of Israel suggested the pontiff should stick to preaching and stay out of politics.
“It’s interesting how the Vatican has gotten so political when ultimately the Vatican ought to be working to lead people to Jesus Christ and salvation, and that’s what the Church is supposed to do,” said Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-S.C.), a hawkish defender of Israel…
“I’m surprised that the pope would recognize Palestine when they’re still haters who want to eliminate Israel off the map and don’t recognize Israel,” said Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), a member of the Israel Allies Caucus. “The Pope is the head of his religion, and he makes those calls for himself, but I represent 700,000 people from East Texas and a vast majority agree with me.”
Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.), who co-chairs the caucus, was even bolder, calling the pontiff’s position into question on Biblical grounds.
“He’s a religious figure and he has every right to have his political viewpoint, but someone of that profile should have strong scriptural foundation for whatever positions he takes that are extensively representing the head of the Catholic Church,” Franks said. “I think this is probably one he should not have expressed.”
Allen West Throws Tantrum At Pope (May 14, 2015)
tbonetylr
9 years ago
“What Leon didn’t mention is that PPP is a Democratic polling organization”
Got it, I’ll start believing Fox News surveys. 凸＇へ＇凸
tbonetylr
9 years ago
Jindal Says Obama Won’t Kill ISIS Leaders On Same Day Top Leader Is Killed
May 16, 2015
After suggesting that Muslim clerics are refusing to condemn ISIS, another dubious claim, Jindal challenged Obama to “do his job” and “hunt down and kill these terrorists.”
Wow, Jindal is SOOOOOOOOOOO smart. How come President Obama couldn’t think of that?
GOP State Lawmaker Defends Bike Tax: Says Biking Not Good For Environment http://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2013/03/02/state-lawmaker-says-bicycling-is-not-good-for-the-environment-should-be-taxed/
“Representative Ed Orcutt (R – Kalama) does not think bicycling is environmentally friendly because the activity causes cyclists to have “an increased heart rate and respiration.”
This is according to comments he made in an email to a constituent who questioned the wisdom of a new bike tax the legislature is considering as part of a large transportation package…
“You would be giving off more CO2 if you are riding a bike than driving in a car,” he said. However, he said he had not “done any analysis” of the difference in CO2 from a person on a bike compared to the engine of a car”
ChickenHead
9 years ago
Leon,
I have a hard time getting worked up over hyperbole that “57 percent of Republicans want to dismantle the Constitution” without knowing a little bit more about how that conclusion was arrived at.
It’s like saying 94% of Democrats think it’s correct to kill babies.
But, you are right… there is a percentage of people who would love to force a little more Jesus into the lives of others if given the chance… or, more accurately, force a little more of the aspects of Jesus they pick and choose to promote their own biases and agendas.
Fortunately, the courts have kept these fake do-gooders in check.
10. Several right wing presidential candidates have already indicated they feel justified in ignoring the courts, especially concerning their interpretation of their cherry picked “good book.” Enough folks seem to support these same candidates… So I believe it is at least prudent to be aware of this trend.
I’ve seen too many stories recently of state level right wingers attempting to push all sort of crazy religious based laws. That tells me there is grass roots support. Someone is electing these folks.
It’s also worth noting the courts have failed us numerous times on this issue, hence the johnny come lately god added to our money and our pledge during the 50’s red scare.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
Leon, you make good points.
Ignoring the courts has become somewhat of a bipartisan habit lately… and some of the rightwing candidates certainly would like to ignore the courts to push more Jesus.
And, somebody is electing some of these people to office… though that might not be entirely the way it seems… as the two choices could be someone who promotes family values, law and order, and wants to push more Jesus… or someone who loves welfare, promotes gun control, and thinks career criminals are more admirable than devout Christians .
But, of course, the right wing and the left wing are just two wings of the same shytbird.
Nonetheless, it is encouraging that, apart from trivial issues like God on money, the courts have taken a secular view towards issues that have a real impact in society… from alcohol prohibition to pr0n to homosexual issues.
In the context of history, the Constitution, and the 70-75% of Americans who believe in God, it is not unreasonable that God pops up in political decisions now and then… and volumes have been written on “Civil Religion” and the actual separation of church and state in America… which is pretty good.
I don’t have any fear at the moment of a theocracy banning property, behaviors, or thoughts that are currently American rights…
…but, you are likely correct. It is prudent to be aware of this trend.
tbonetylr
9 years ago
Harriet Tubman New Face on $20 bill. I can’t wait, but I’ll have to start saving/buying $10 bills because after a cash purchase half the whites(especially GOP’ers down south) will be asking for change in tens…”Duh, could I have that in tens?”
Now let’s take a look at the middle of George Bush’s presidency: in 2004, there were 849 American soldiers killed in Iraq. In 2005, 846. In 2006, 823.
Of the 4490 American soldiers killed in Iraq, only 268 came during the Obama presidency; 94 percent are on Bush’s watch. And the reason is clear: because Obama pulled the combat troops out of Iraq. All of them.
Whenever Bush or Cheney or McCain or someone else on the right talks about the chaos that has ensued since we left Iraq, liberals automatically go to, “Well, you caused it!” And they did. Republicans have a bit of a case of selective memory when it comes to Iraq. And when I say “a bit” I mean “clinically diagnosable.”
Read the rest…
ChickenHead
9 years ago
“Harriet Tubman New Face on $20 bill.”
Tbone, I am glad you are happy and hopeful… but…
The Wright Brothers invented the airplane, Bell invented the telephone, and Edison invented the light bulb… but Tubman’s invention of the subway just doesn’t reach that standard.
..not to mention that she was for women’s suffering.
…though her work with the gay community was admirable, as she had an influence on Harper’s fairy.
Nonetheless, I agree with you. It would be nice for the federal government to recognize a back-alley crack whore isn’t the only option when you want to have a black woman for twenty bucks.
Denny
9 years ago
‘White-on-white’ violence erupts as biker gang ‘thugs’ kill 9 in shootout at a Waco, Texas restaurant
“Well, that, and no white leaders are going to go on the talk show circuit to talk about #whitelivesmatter.”
…and average whites aren’t going to take to the street and throw rocks at cops while yelling about how they violated the rights of the gentle giant bikers who were all aspiring nu-metal artists who were just starting to turn their lives around.
Tbone is so funny, Setnaffa. Don’t respond to his trolling. Just make fun of him with more a higher standard of trolling.
And so it begins. Even a biker fight is a reason to bring up Obammy. (From various sources. Posted for entertainment purposes only)
Anonymous
me being the skeptic that I am, I wonder if this was “arranged” by our lovely gov’t, maybe as practice to see what they can “accomplish” (manipulate the gangs to fight somehow) and create another possible reason to declare Martial Law in an area.
Dan
Watching for the false flag cavil unrest to be used to declare a state of emergency to coincide with the deployed troops. I worked security for clubs a good part of my life. Never had a biker problem, always talked to the enforcer at the door and always had assurance nothing would happen in the club. Even with rivals in the bar, never a problem. Remember, things are not always what they seem.
Juan Herrera
It’s a reason for the Marshall law to kick in
Vee Kay
Early shades of Jade Helm…
GOLOC
Both gangs have fed infiltration, now the question is, did the undercover agents instigate this to start a shooting war False Flag ? but here’s the real Problem, when the cops took to getting involved in the shooting war, THEY F ed up, Now the Bandidos and other MC’s, Desperiods, Free Wheeler’s, etc and the Cossacks Will more than Likely, turn there Anger towards the Cops for shooting MC members, the Jails will probably be going wild, but It’s the Cops who Have the Problem now, This is Fixing to get interesting and Bloody.
GOLOC
Maybe that’s what that Big circle on Texas, on the Jade Helm map is for, the False Flag shooting war, that are HARP, with all the constant Rain, but We will see were this goes and how far, if they start shooting cops then will have a pretty good clue, as to WHY ? the Big Circle on Texas.
All_These_Things_That_Ive_Done
Why are people down voting you? Shills? Your post are certainly plausible make perfect sense. I don’t think there is any coincidence on the timing, none at all.
R Lee DeJaynes
You guys are playing right into the POS-POTUS’s plan for martial law!!
Joshua McCracken
You sure a Bandito or a Cossack didn’t receive a little cha-ching from recent ex-DOJ Holder? Odd that he resigned right before this all started, after he ran guns to border groups. Just sayin’.
Laura Key
I smell a government orchestrated false flag…. again. Just like the feds also did in Seattle and other cities in the U.S.. The U.S. government has an agenda… create chaos to push martial law or whatever else they can use to “control” people.
Enough for now. Wow. Just wow.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
Leon, there is a lot of foolishness out there… especially when cherrypicking for foolishness… though on some sites, there is likely nothing but low-hanging fruit.
…but, with my tinfoil hat removed, I also see that there are MANY well-documented and undisputed cases (in both past and immediately history) where government agents embedded in a group (from anti-globalization animal-loving tree-hugging hippies to far-right neo-Nazis survivalists) have encouraged violence and instigated trouble just so there could be some sort of crackdown where one was not really needed or couldn’t be rationalized.
It is a perfectly reasonable suspicion that government elements within these gangs started some level of conflict that intentionally or unintentionally ended at the level of violence that it did.
The reason for this could be anything from a very reasonable theory of doing what the DEA could not (this has been done before)… to a more paranoid idea that there have been too many blacks and cops in the news and it is time to show there are dangerous white criminals as well… so “but white bikers” can be a response to counter “but black thugs”. Or it could just be a case of some level of government/law enforcement encouraging more low-level criminal disorder so they can pass more laws and buy more toys.
I should add that it isn’t exactly martial law… but law enforcement is blaming the business for all this… as if it is their responsibility to make sure there are no criminal biker gangs… or as if they can’t be easily sued for refusing service to someone for no legally defined reason.
Law enforcement’s lazy martial law-like response has been to shut down all the businesses at Central Texas Marketplace… as if bikers are going to bring attention to themselves by having another running gun battle between Old Navy and David’s Bridal.
Yes, Leon, there is a lot of stupid anti-government nonsense out there and it isn’t hard to find if you go looking for it… but that does not mean it is all wrong and the government is actually here to help you.
Instead of promoting this stupid stuff, which is generally promoted to tarnish similar but more reasonable theories, you might consider simply stating what YOU believe happened… and why.
It was too many bikers in too small an area with failed leadership and lax discipline… to mind control rays from black helicopters shipped in from the Denver Airport in support of Jade Helm… or something in between.
long-time lurker
9 years ago
Thank you ROKDROP for maintaining this blog. I have been lurking for a long time and am done with Leon’s nonsense. About 200 of the people whom PPP chose to call answered yes to the question “Would you support or oppose establishing Christianity as the national religion?”
(1) We don’t know how PPP (well known for being liberal partisans) chose to these people. PPP did not provide information on its sampling methods.
(2) Nowhere in the questions does it say anything about dismantling the Constitution. If you actually asked them that question you would have probably gotten different answers. You are uncharitably misrepresenting the opinions they expressed (perhaps that is why PPP asked the question in the first place).
(3) The question is ambiguous. There are many possible interpretations of the question. Again, if you randomly drawn Republicans if they want an official state religion you will probably get much less support. I suspect most of these people did not interpret the question they way liberals are portraying the question. Christianity is the de facto official religion, and most respondents probably just wanted to maintain this status quo.
(4) If most Republican primary voters actually want Christianity as the state religion, it is surprising that no candidate has advocated for establishing a state religion.
Quite frankly, Leon’s reaction to this poll reveals his own bigotry towards traditional America.
Setnaffa, I am leaning towards the black helicopter theory myself…
…being this whole deal is starting to sound increasingly like bullshyt.
Let’s take a look at some facts and how they fit in to the story that is being pushed on the public.
– The story has been evolving… and is still full of obvious untruths. This being marketed as a “recruitment meeting” is the first joke.
– This same meeting, discussing general biker issues among groups, has been going on for 18 years with no issues… and none were expected this time… as usual
– Law enforcement had “intel” there was going to be violence and had officers nearby.
– There is no gain for bikers to engage in this behavior in this situation… and were likely well-instructed on this… as they have been for 18 years.
– The bikers “started shooting at our officers” is improbable… though shooting back is less improbable.
– The more the story comes out, it appears most of the dead bikers were shot by police.
– There is lots of talk of a large number of “weapons” but no talk of guns… very uncharacteristic of the media which loves to talk about guns… especially when they are used by white people… although the bikers had quite a few browns and a few blacks… a fact also not making the news which is promoting the impression that this was a whites-only event
– the “bikers are now targeting law enforcement” alarmist propaganda has begun… pushing the actually-happening “black man ambushes cop” events out of the news.
– law enforcement is stopping cars at checkpoints due to this “targeting”… stroking off the fears and fantasies of the Jade Helm paranoids… who may sound stupid but don’t sound exactly wrong.
This really is starting to sound like a set-up by law enforcement to “get” these bikers… probably because traditional investigation techniques were not working. Bonus points are awarded for creating a war between clubs, promoting an anti-biker agenda, drawing attention away from black thugs, etc.
Once more of this story gets out, especially after the bikers are released and tell their side, this event will likely have a very different explanation… but the earlier version of the story will be the one burned into the public consciousness.
There are a few bikers who lurk around here. It would be interesting to hear their opinion on this.
Setnaffa
9 years ago
Parade to celebrate President Obama’s Iraq policy in Anbar…
Government shooting unpopular groups in Waco? Whoever heard of such a thing? And did anyone notice who sat next to Janet Reno at the hearings about Waco (Mt. Carmel) last time?
26. I tend to agree with your assessment that something is fishy here.
MC’s do not want this sort of exposure, especially all the pains they go through to present a kinder gently image in their communities. No one in the MC world wins here.
Some of my observations:
Unlike undisciplined street gang thugs, many bikers have military training and if they did do a majority of shooting. avoided civilian casualties and got their targets. But if that is the case, how is it none of the cops got shot? (The only reported police “casualty” was a heat casualty)
How many of the off duty cops who happened to be in the area were already wearing body armor?
The larger clubs do not have black members but most “white” clubs do allow Hispanics and even East Asian members. The old saying is; “if you have one black in the club, it’s a black club.” There are many “black” MC’s which associate with “white” MC’s but they are different clubs. It’s not necessarily about overt racism (though that certainly exists) but more of a case of how things have always been done and relations between clubs. (Sons of Anarchy, which I despise, kinda got that right)
I will be curious how many dead and wounded have .223 or 5.56 bullets in them. Even more so about the final ballistics report which will indicate who shot whom (and who, if anyone, was shot in the back).
How many of those shot can be proven to have had a firearm in their hand?
I’m betting most of the bikers with firearms had legal weapons with concealed carry permits.
I have often railed against the over militarized and out of control police and “justice” system though even if this turns out to be true, I believe it was not orchestrated at the national level (administration) nor does it lend any credence to the Jade Helm conspiracies. This stands alone.
Then again, it may turn out that the current reports are true and it is what it is. We aren’t talking about choirboys here.
/Finally, I wonder, is anyone going to slam Obammy for the latest news he is taking some of the military hardware away from the over militarized police?
Eighteen officers and four state troopers were just outside the Twin Peaks restaurant before the violence erupted just after noon on Sunday.
“These officers were not undercover,” Swanton explained. “We wanted our presence to be known by the bikers that were here. There was no doubt they knew we were out here.”
This is what stinks to me. These guys in MC’s are not Muslim and are not suicidal. Though I am firmly 2nd amendment, this would also point out a flaw in the conceit that citizens can use their personal weapons to stand against the government. We’re taking Waco PD, not the Marines or Army. It would appear the cops easily slaughtered them.
…additionally, I expect DoD fallout which will reach worldwide. I can just about bet you with a great degree of certainty that there were soldiers, civilians and contractors present on the scene wearing colors….
tbonetylr
9 years ago
“who may sound stupid but don’t sound exactly wrong.”
Yep, you ARE a BACKWARDS EGGHEAD!!!
“but the earlier version of the story will be the one burned into the public consciousness.”
The “earlier” version ain’t that important to Fox News you EGGHEAD i.e. WAR on IRAQ.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
“this would also point out a flaw in the conceit that citizens can use their personal weapons to stand against the government”
…unless, in reality, none of the bikers actually used their firearms… perhaps not against each other… and likely not against the police.
As it seems HIGHLY unlikely that bikers decided to rumble at a publicized meeting openly surrounded by law enforcement, it is probable that the real story is very different from what we are being told.
The news and police hyping “hundreds of weapons” but not mentioning how many “firearms” is an indicator that reality does not reflect the perception they are trying to push. If one were to do an honest count, it might be found that many of these “weapons” were Leathermans and other potentially (but hardly ideal) dual use items that were present but not used.
If I was to propose a theory, it would go something like this…
Undercover law enforcement was present and acted as an agent provocateur to start some trouble… with the intention of giving the waiting law enforcement a reason to get involved. This started as a normal fight for contrived reasons at a function where everyone was well aware to be on their best behavior… and, perhaps, it was not even a fight but an attempt to restrain the undercover officer from trying to start one.
As soon as it got serious, the undercover officer decided as a cop, he could pull out his firearm and be in the right, as he was “in danger”… while still not clearly identifying himself as law enforcement.
Bikers who were there for the peaceful, publicized meeting openly surrounded by law enforcement were now in a situation that required legitimate self defense… protecting themselves against a troublemaker who drew a firearm and posed a threat more immediate than the police outside.
This situation caused the conflict and confusions law enforcement had been trying to create… and, though it is not clear who shot whom, the surrounding law enforcement with scary black rifles and the cover of their vehicles opened fire on a parking lot full of bikers who had no idea who was a friend and who was an enemy.
This is just a possible scenario… but it makes a lot more sense than the official story that a bunch of gun-toting gangsters at a secret recruiting meeting in a business that promoted violence decided to have a gun fight with each other and then with cops but the cops, who were well prepared, were able to use their military hardware and tactics to save countless innocent bystanders.
That just stinks from all sides.
One other thing, Leon. When people claim nonsense like, “flaw in the conceit that citizens can use their personal weapons to stand against the government,” I must ask how uneducated goat herders in a barren desert with DIY guns made out of scrap metal and rebar barrels managed to hold off a military armed with everything from smart bombs to spy satellites to FLIR?
Citizens CAN use their personal weapons to stand against government… just not one at a time.
And as long as the government divides the citizens by race, class, education, region, group affiliation, sex, sexuality, etc., it is hard to get more organized than that.
johnnyboy
9 years ago
From what I have read, the Bandidos were the main group at the event. I also read they are a largely Hispanic group and pretty much run Texas as far as MC’s go.
The story is that the Cossacks have been making a run for the throne and that they showed up to start trouble.
Not inconceivable that these two groups would have some tension that could get out of hand, but I have to agree with you gents. It seems a bit fishy and convenient the way the events unfolded.
The Black Lives Matter crowd is already harping on the “white-on-white” crime and wondering how many of these guys didn’t have fathers in the picture. As if it’s a contest to see who can ignore their own race’s problems by highlighting another’s.
Leon, talk radio is slamming Obama for taking away tools that the police need to quell rioters and maintain order. I haven’t read the exact contents of his mandate or what it prohibits, but most of us here know the dangers of giving the police expensive toys that have to be used frequently to justify their upkeep in the budget. As long as the cops aren’t being neutered, I agree with his actions on this one. I likely don’t agree with his reasons, as he is probably just doing it to placate the BLM movement and their oversensitive reaction when anyone attempts to stop them from burning down their own neighborhoods.
Well, the goat herders have no problem using their population as human shields. I would hope Americans are not so far gone as to do the same.
johnnyboy
9 years ago
If things ever got bad enough that the military was turned loose on the common citizenry, then who ever was in charge probably wouldn’t be as concerned about rules of engagement as we have been in recent conflicts.
Then again, I have always thought that the area surrounding Fayetteville would end up with a huge insurgency because of all the retired SF guys who live around there.
Inferior forces equipped with inferior weaponry have fought superior forces to a draw or a stalemate in the past.
Not saying I think that is likely. Just talking hypothetically.
JoeC,
“The Black Lives Matter crowd is already harping on the “white-on-white” crime…”
“…doing it to placate the BLM movement and their oversensitive reaction…”
http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/jay-z-and-beyonc-reportedly-bail-out-protesters.html
“Jay Z’s support for the #BlackLivesMatter protests isn’t just limited to freestyle shout-outs: According to a string of since-deleted tweets from Source editor turned activist dream hampton, who collaborated with Jay on his 2010 book Decoded, Jay Z and Beyoncé have been quietly donating thousands of dollars in aid to the movement. “When we needed money for bail for Baltimore protesters, I … hit Jay up, as I had for Ferguson,” hampton wrote. He delivered, wiring “tens of thousands” in a matter of minutes. And he didn’t just send bail money: “When BLM needed infrastructure money for the many chapters we’re growing like beautiful dandelions, Carters wrote a huge check.” This squares with other rumors that have come out in recent months, as well as Jay’s own boast on “Nickels and Dimes”: “The purest form of giving is anonymous to anonymous … You don’t know all the shit I do for homies.”
ChickenHead
9 years ago
“When BLM needed infrastructure money for the many chapters we’re growing like beautiful dandelions, Carters wrote a huge check.”
Tbone, what the heck is BLM? Does that stand for Baltimore’s Looting Monkeys?
“we’re growing like beautiful dandelions”
At least that was well said… considering that dandelions are considered an invasive species and a nuisance weed… not unlike BLM.
Leon,
“Well, the goat herders have no problem using their population as human shields.”
Come on, Leon. WTF? That’s not even a reply. If you truly believe the goat herders do so well simply because they use their innocent population as human shields, you are a participant in the failure.
Would you like to give a smarter-sounding explanation why the goat herders do so well but American citizens could not under similar circumstances? Or would you like to concede that maybe, just maybe, if the American government attacked a broad class of American citizens who were reasonably educated, well-armed, trained in diverse skills, knew the terrain, and had local support, it would not matter how many battleships or attack helicopters were thrown at the problem.
Well, if a broken clock is right twice a day, T-BONEHEAD is a clock that loses 2 minutes in 36 hours, meaning he is right about once every 135 days.
Yeah, Ed Orcutt is a politician who has reached a T-Bone level of stupidity. Bicyclists do not appreciably generate more CO2 than a couch potato, but do create far, FAR less pollution than a car.
So if CH really wants to help out those 10,000-year-old halabojis pushing pushcarts full of cardboard down the middle of the road, he should buy them a cargo bike. 😉
ChickenHead
9 years ago
I don’t know, MTB.
Is it more efficient to put gas in a tractor that plows a field and dispenses petroleum-based fertilizer and uses more gas to harvest the crops and then needs a gassed-up truck to ship the food to a store which lights the food and refrigerates the food and supplies it to people who have to come and get it so they can eat it to power their bicycle to ride around telling everyone how energy efficient they are…
…or is it more efficient just to gas up the car and keep the bicycle-powered smugness to oneself?
I am only half joking.
It might be possible that, in a number of situations, the total CO2 footprint of the food required to move a person a given distance is more than the gas required to move a person a given distance.
setnaffa
9 years ago
When the folks who lead the Climate Change louts start acting like it’s a real emergency and stop taking private jets and 20+ vehicle motorcades around to their posh hotels and convention centers–and when they reduce their homes’ carbon footprint to something approaching that of a normal human family–I may start to believe that they believe their own spew.
Oh, and CH? It’s not smugness, it’s just an annoyance at people who are not just dumb, but proudly, arrogantly dumb. Ed Orcutt went well beyond the normal politician’s stupid comment to a T-Bone level of stupid comment. Why do you get to make T-Bone look as foolish as he is, but I can’t call out a politician for being a dumbazz?
Yeah, it takes a certian amount of gasoline to move food from the farm to the table, but you would have to have food sourced from a really long distance away, and ignore the economies of scale to make it cost more in moving the food to create a bigger CO2 footprint than the bicyclists would create. Delivering stuffed kiwi from New Zealand by private jet to a single customer is not the way most food is brought to market. Bringing a few thousand tons of pineapples across from the Philipines, several thousand frozen head of cattle from the U.S, and hundreds of crates of apples from Washington is more realistic.
Come on, CH. You can do better than toss out a vague “It might be possible that, in a number of situations, the total CO2 footprint of the food required to move a person a given distance is more than the gas required to move a person a given distance.” You’re smarter than that. There are virtually no circumstances where that equasion would work out, unless you are being deliberatly wasteful.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
Well, MTB, you made me look it up.
As we aren’t the only ones curious about this, it has already been done with various degrees of complexity… and each level of complexity is unfavorable to bicycling.
Google my quotes if you need a source:
– “for every calorie of food that is produced in the United States, 10 calories of fossil fuel energy are put into the system to grow that food.”
…as I suspected. Modern food production relies HEAVLY on petroleum for fertilizers, pesticides, machinery, irrigation, crop drying, crop storage, etc.
…but then…
– “most of it does not come to our tables in its whole, natural form. Instead, the majority of this food is sent to a plant for processing into what Pollan likes to call “food-like substances” (at an additional energy cost)”
Discount this if you eat only non-processed, unpackaged food, I suppose… but make sure you don’t refrigerate or cook any of your food.
Get it locally-sourced from an unlighted, non-temperature controlled market which has employees that live in the store and has the farm out back.
You get the idea.
To supply a quantity of energy through food requires more than ten times the fossil fuel as simply supplying that quantity of energy through fossil fuel.
So. When supplying a quantity of energy, fossil fuel produces less than 10% of the CO2 as food.
(And don’t eat any meat which takes FIFTY times the fossil fuel to produce the same energy!)
That is the first half of the story. Things are not looking up for human-powered mechanization in the consumption efficiency category.
But the second half is a matter of conversion efficiency.
How efficient is a person at converting food to motion and how efficient is a bicycle at converting this motion to a change in position? How efficient is a car at converting fossil fuel (with 1/10th the overhead to begin with) to a change in position?
Looking at the link you provided, it indicates that a person’s MPG on a bicycle is 984 while a person’s MPG in a car is 35.7. Divide that 984 by (a conservative 10) and you get 98.4 MPG.
These numbers match up to several other sources which arrived at similar calculations of around +/- 100 MPG from various angles.
So, it seems bicycling uses a third of the fossil fuel of cars to go the same distance… though this assumes no calories from meat… and no cooking, no refrigeration, and that the energy percentage for sales and distribution are trivial… which they may not be.
However, Ed Orcutt did not really address the CO2 produced from the fuel used to grow the food to feed the bicyclist. He simply stated that a person riding a bicycle would be breathing harder and producing more CO2 than a person sitting in a car. That is a true statement… and since this CO2 comes from carbon in food that was produced from fossil fuel, it is carbon externally introduced into the carbon cycle and therefore is a “pollutant”, if you believe in global warming.
You are right. He is an idiot… but not exactly for the reasons the media is on his case over.
BUT…
There are a few things to note… using the numbers you linked… which seem to match many other sites:
– a car with 4 passengers uses less fossil fuel per person per distance than a bicycle
– a motorcycle with 2 people uses less fossil fuel than a bicycle with one person
– a plugin hybrid with the national average of 1.58 passengers also uses less fossil fuel than a bicycle… MUCH better with 4 passengers
Conclusion: Due to modern agriculture, human power is not as efficient as some established and emerging technologies that directly convert fossil fuel to motion. With more renewable energy for vehicles and more efficient technologies (from regenerative breaking to better batteries to lighter meta-materials), bicyclists will soon be considered polluters…
…and not just for their toxic spills of smugness.
You may challenge my facts or conclusions.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
P.S… just to rub it in a bit.
“It might be possible that, in a number of situations, the total CO2 footprint of the food required to move a person a given distance is more than the gas required to move a person a given distance.”
– ChickenHead 2015
Right again, ChickenHead.
“There are virtually no circumstances where that equasion would work out, unless you are being deliberatly wasteful.”
I think for the biker gang shootout I think it is better to blame incompetency than conspiracy. I can easily imagine a couple of bikers getting in a fight and the plains clothes police outside trying to break it up by drawing their weapons. The bikers may not have known they were police and drew their weapons in response. From there the police start shooting. Or maybe one of the plains clothes police was trying to break up the fight and ended up getting beaten and the other police start shooting to stop the beating.
It seems that there is plenty of scenarios of incompetency to explain what happened instead of a conspiracy.
I’m not sure where you are going with that, and it seems like you are being a bit disingenous in your transportation equations. The people riding in the car are consuming the same food calories (well, a bit less, to be honest) as the cyclist, so your reduction of the cyclist to only 90 mpg, and that 4 people riding in a car, or two people riding on a motorcycle consuming the same amount of food/fuel per person as a single bicyclist leaves out the food/fuel consumed by the other six motor transported people. Unless they are eating locally sourced, non-refrigerated, farmed out back, and consumed non-cooked.
So, no. Your equation is deliberately wasteful, or you missed the part that whatever you do to one side of the equation, you have to do to the other side. I eat, you eat, they eat. We all eat, or we die.
True, modern food production is very petrochemical intensive, but that is spread out across all food consumers. I don’t have any suggestion on reducing the fuel consumed to create food, and I do know dirt farming and praying for rain won’t feed over 7 billion people.
Even a well tuned engine produces far more CO2 than even the fattest, most out of shape, gasping all the way rider. Even with the new batteries, or meta-materials, or power generation sources. It will be quite some time before cyclists produce the majority of CO2, and have to go from Carbon Credit producers to Carbon Credit consumers.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
MTB… come on. Stop and think.
The guy moving himself and his bicycle requires energy to do this. Unless he can magic himself around the laws of thermodynamics, he will need to consume energy above his normal requirements.
This energy comes from the extra food he eats… which the guy sitting in the car does not.
So, yes, I do “realize that everyone has to eat”… but I also realize they do not eat the same amount. This difference is based on the energy they expend.
The link you provided clearly stated how much energy was required for each mode of transportation per person per distance. This was converted into miles per gallon of gasoline… and further modified based on how many people could use the vehicle. For the bicyclist, and all other categories, this was only the actual energy required to move himself and his bicycle from one place to another with no relationship to his daily metabolic needs. Introducing that into the conversation is a rhetorical diversion but has no bearing on the statistics given in the link you provided.
If people could directly metabolize gasoline, the bicyclist would be a clear winner. But this is not the case. People need food… and food requires a great deal of gasoline to produce. At the very least, food requires 10 times its energy in petroleum use.
You provided the link. The numbers are very clear. I did not make this up. In the future, before providing a link that disproves your point, perhaps it is best to take a closer look at it.
“Even a well tuned engine produces far more CO2 than even the fattest, most out of shape, gasping all the way rider.”
Absolutely… but to feed that fat, out of shape rider… or even a trim one… so they have the extra energy necessary to lollygag down the road inhibiting traffic, it requires a large number of engines… from tractors to trucks… and a great deal of engine-like equipment from gas turbines to reflux distillers.
Once again… even the tree-huggers accept (or, perhaps, promote) that it takes ten times the energy to make food than to simply supply the energy… FIFTY(ish) times for meat.
So… once again… as per YOUR link (and several others I found), not including transportation and storage, simply growing the food to power a couple bicyclist over a given distance requires more petroleum than a couple guys driving a hybrid the same distance.
It is presented so clearly, I fail to see where any argument can be on this.
tbonetylr
9 years ago
Marco Rubio says…”A president cannot make a decision knowing what someone might know in the future.”
Who says…besides Marco Rubio? He sounds like he’s been the president before but he hasn’t so he doesn’t know what the president can and cannot do unless there is a constitutional amendment that says…”A president cannot make a decision knowing what someone might know in the future…”
I can make a decision knowing what someone might know in the future.
My decision is to say, “Ewwwwwww”.
In the future, Tbone will know how much he enjoys huffing solvent while a big harry dude pounds him in the rear.
Can I haz prezidenzy?
tbonetylr
9 years ago
GOP Crazy after President Obama does good…Record highs for Dow and S&P
Hateful GOP’ers bemoan democrats for being wealthy
Rand Paul: If you want another Iraq war, you know who to vote for
Gates: Not seeing a lot of courage by GOP field of wannabe presidents
Harvard Prof Says Rick Santorum Misuses His Book To Say ‘All Black Men Are Sexual Predators’
Anne Graham Lotz: “ I will see the day of the return of Jesus.”
Liz
9 years ago
People with high metabolisms are CO2 polluters!
La vita grassa rulz!
Bikers are just piss drinking sissies.
(wait…that last was poorly timed, wasn’t it?)
😛
Liz
9 years ago
Ugh…that emotion! I forgot.
setnaffa
9 years ago
If the so-called “environmentalists” believed their own spew, they wouldn’t use so much fossil fuel in their clothing, private jets, and non-locally-grown gourmet meals…
I assume my carbon footprint is less than that of the President’s dog.
The media sure is trying hard. I suppose someone is buying it.
“Black thugs” can now be responded to with “but… but… but white bikers” in the minds of some.
Let’s take a tiny peek at just a part of the myth that is trying to be created…
“leaving nine bikers dead, 18 people injured, and 170 suspects in police custody. Over 100 weapons have been confiscated.”
Nine bikers are dead… but it is unclear how many were killed by other bikers and how many were killed by cops. Of the nine, early rumors in the Texas law enforcement community said four were killed by cops. Now, the rumor is that ALL were killed by cops and that there was no two-way gunfight between cops and bikers. These are just rumors… but they make more sense than the official story that bikers opened fire on cops. There are too many witnesses for much of the real story not to come out… if the media cares to report it. So far, they have been simply repeating the evolving tale being spun by law enforcement.
It seems pretty clear that cops, with rifles and behind cover, fired on bikers in the open armed with handguns at best. If, in fact, the bikers were brandishing firearms, the actions of law enforcement were likely correct…
…but it is not so clear that the bikers were a threat to the cops.
“170 suspects in police custody. Over 100 weapons have been confiscated.”
The first thing that should be noted is that if it was only one weapon per customer, only 60% of the bikers had weapons.
And, again, it must be pointed out that law enforcement and media keep screaming “WEAPONS!” but not even whispering “firearms”. They seem to be avoiding an uncomfortable truth that this big White Gangbanger Biker Threat to the Public had an embarrassing lack of banging capability in their gang.
And, again, what law enforcement considers “weapons” might not be what a normal person would consider a weapon. A picture I saw of “weapons” included a 3 inch knife and a wallet with a short chain… not exactly a length of of anchor chain being swung around like the images the media has been conjuring.
Cops LOVE to pile contraband on a table for a media event… but there has been a conspicuous lack of this… no table covered in firearms and baseball bats with nails in them. Somehow, one could suspect the decision was made to talk about “100 WEAPONS!” instead of showing a table covered in pocket knives, multi-tools, and screwdrivers.
As of a few hours ago, there was a claim that 1000 weapons had been recovered. That was lowered to 318. These new weapons were found in a search of the restaurant where they had been dumped. That makes sense… better to lose your weapon than have it found on you when the round-up starts. It will be interesting to see if we get our table covered in weapons… or not. It is very odd policework to wait this long to search the restaurant.
One other thing to note… a large percentage of 170 people were arrested due to their appearance and/or associations rather than because they were seen engaging in any criminal behavior. When blanket arrests involve blacks in matching hoodies or gang attire at the scene of a crime their buddy commits, this is condemned as racism… yet the media is congratulatory in this situation. This double standard is something to be aware of.
Soooo… there is little to do but wait and assemble the little parts of the real story that will slowly trickle out as law enforcement and media gently allow their narrative to converge with reality on their terms.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
Q: What’s the difference between a Hoover and a Harley?
A: Law enforcement doesn’t mass-arrest Hoover owners for unclear connections to unclear crimes and then publicly salivate over how they expect to bring in over one million dollars “to aid in fighting crime” by auctioning off confiscated vacuum cleaners.
It’s not the psychopaths that kill millions. It’s “normal”, seemingly well-adjusted folks who just go along with evil plans, evil actions…
That’s what I have been trying to explain to you all along. I had forgotten the term “banality of evil” and couldn’t remember it. We are making progress!
Speaking of which:
Republicans Call For Christianity As ‘Official Religion’ of US
May 21, 2015 by Michael Stone
Theocracy Alert: Conservative Christian Republicans committed to the false notion that the U.S. is a nation founded by and for Christians are quietly working behind the scenes to establish Christianity as the official religion of the U.S.A.
Right Wing Watch reports the Republican National Committee continues to partner with the American Renewal Project, which is run by Christian Nationalist and anti-gay extremist David Lane and is affiliated with the powerful and influential far-right American Family Association.
In an email alert sent to American Renewal Project supporters earlier this week, Lane reiterated the call to establish Christianity as the official religion of America:
The American church has lost its commission in the public square, its purpose for being. Ultimately, unless we find the chart and compass used by Colonial America to establish Christianity as the official religion of America, America will no longer be.
In the email alert, Lane uses a great deal of false and misleading information to argue that the U.S. is a Christian nation and that Christianity should be adopted as the “official religion of America.”
In the alert, Lane rails against secularism and secularists, apparently unaware or unwilling to admit that the U.S. is a nation founded upon secular values.
However, Lane’s inaccurate and misleading remarks are not surprising, given his sordid history. Lane is notorious for making offensive, misleading, and historically inaccurate statements. For example:
“The separation of church and state is a “lie” and a “fabricated whopper” used to stop “Christian America – the moral majority – from imposing moral government on pagan public schools, pagan higher learning and pagan media.” [6/6/13]
“We were established as a Christian nation, for the advancement of the Christian faith.” [1/30/15]
“Vote to restore the Bible and prayer in public schools or be sent home. Hanging political scalps on the wall is the only love language politicians can hear.” [7/17/13]
“While America was a Christian nation since its founding, now it must choose between being a Christian nation or a pagan nation.” [7/17/13]
The problem is that David Lane is an influential man within the Republican party, a man who enjoys a great deal of support from many GOP officials. Earlier this year, members of the Republican National Committee went on an all-expense paid trip to Israel, a trip that was organized by Lane and financed by the American Family Association.
As Right Wing Watch notes, Republicans who attend Lane’s candidate forums, invite him to conduct training, or join him on all-expenses-paid trips to Israel, can’t really claim ignorance of his agenda, which is crystal clear:
Lane, with the financial and political support of many other conservative Christian Republicans, is quietly working behind the scenes to establish Christianity as the official religion of the U.S.A.
And amid all this evil, there is still g\feel good, good news. Enjoy your weekend!
Karma has come back to a Sikh man who broke religious protocol to help a little boy at an accident scene in Auckland last week.
Harman Singh made international headlines when he took off his turban to cradle the head of Daejon Pahia, 6, who had been hit by a car.
Mr Singh, from India, is in Auckland studying a business course. He said he was overwhelmed with all the praise and didn’t think twice about helping the little boy.
When Seven Sharp went to meet Mr Singh and congratulate him on his heroic deed, many viewers commented on his lack of furniture.
Simone from Tauranga emailed the programme, saying “it upsets us all to see such a lovely kind man living in such an empty home”.
Mr Singh’s flatmate Ravi and Lily from Big Save Furniture came on board to help fill Mr Singh’s house.
When a van pulled up outside Mr Singh’s house, he was speechless.
“We got you some furniture!” His flatmate yelled.
“A lounge suite, a bed and a coffee table, for all the good that you’ve done.”
Mr Singh emotionally accepted the gifts.
“Thank you, thanks a lot. I’m very happy.
“Is this… it’s the biggest surprise of my life.”
Turbans become a part of a Sikh’s body and are usually removed only in the privacy of their own house. Normally it is only in the most intimate of circumstances, when bathing the head, or washing the hair.
A federal law enforcement source told NBC News that “Operation Pilluted” is the “single largest pharmaceutical operation in DEA history.” It is focused on the illegal sale and distribution of pain killers, including oxycodone and hydrocodone.”
tbonetylr
9 years ago
DEA Crackdown on Prescription Drugs in Four Southern States
GOP’er states are HIGH on Prescription DRUGS….just like EGGHEAD!!!
“DEA data show Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana were among the top 11 states for prescribing hydrocodone in 2014.”
That’s a good quote… but I do not think it means what you think it means.
When you bust 4 states and then say they were in the top 11, it means one was number 11… not exactly America’s Most Wanted.
Let’s look at the top 4 states for prescribing hydrocodone in 2014 rather than the top 11.
Number 1… (drum roll)… California… with a bonus that the government paid for so much of it… 60,000,000 tax dollars to supply the poors and illegals with happy pills in 2014. That’s more than three times the rate of all other states (except #2). 100% SOLID DEMOCRAT for every major office
Number 2… Texas.. was Democrat until the mid 90s… expected to return to democrat due to rapidly expanding Hispanic population. But they love their pills right now. 100% SOLID REPUBLICAN
Number 3… Florida… MIXED, SLIGHTLY IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRAT
Number 4… Michigan… MIXED, SLIGHTLY IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRAT
I am not convinced political party affiliation is the cause. Want to make a better case that Republicans are sittng around thinking of ways to push pills?
…well, other than lobbying from Big Pharmacy.
setnaffa
9 years ago
By the way, President Obama was quoted in the Atlantic as saying ISIS is not winning in Iraq, so it’s all OK.
setnaffa
9 years ago
Just like that survey of people most likely to overthrow the Constitution for their religion.
Leon, you’re apparently smoking the same stuff as tbone.
This is easy to resolve Setnaffa. Would you mind sharing with us which congressional district you vote in? I do not want to be presumptuous but I assume you normally vote republican. Who are your favorite presidential candidates right now?
When the Bush presidency empowered the Jesus freaks in Osan leadership to look for ways to push their (fake) morality on low-level GIs just trying to get by, all it did was increase the number of rapes.
70. Speaking of rapes. “TLC” just cancelled the Duggars. As an atheist, and without fear of divine retrubution or reward, I have molested exactly how many underage girls I wanted to, 0. I guess the Buy-Bull isn’t the sole source of morals.
Another blow for “traditional America” – LOL
johnnyboy
9 years ago
Leon,
I’m curious to know more about the circumstances of his transgressions. He was apparently 15 at the time. I wonder how old the girl or girls were. The keyword that stuck out to me was “forcible.”
I am wondering if he was ever formally charged and tried for anything. I’m not defending him at all because I don’t know the circumstances. Wouldn’t doubt he touched kids because nothing surprises me anymore. Just curious to know the full story in an age when the media is ready to bash anything right wing, conservative, Christian, or law enforcement before the facts are out.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
“I have molested exactly how many underage girls I wanted to, 0”
So how many have you molested and why did you address that comment to Tbone, Leon?
The Duggars and the Duck f@ckers are held up as the epitome of Christianhood and I would have to agree that they are exactly that. They are horrible human beings.
So he was probably touching his sisters and a friend who was spending the night at the family home?
I gotta say though, if you have 19 kids the chances that at least one of them is going to be a sicko are probably pretty high.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
Leon, why are you stirring up trouble by repeating media lies about “underage” girls.
In 1917, Canon Law set the age of marriage for girls at 14 (up from 12)… so maybe they were not “underage”… and if they were younger than 14, then maybe he just hadn’t gotten the updated information… a mistake based on ignorance and poor communication within the church rather than some sort of evil intent.
And if they were younger than 12, perhaps it is because Josh has an undiagnosed learning disability and it was a simple math mistake. You are awfully quick to assign blame to a potentially disabled boy without knowing all the facts.
Josh was around 14 when these events happened… and, as Canon Law sets the age of marriage for boys at 16, he was certainly underage. This really makes him a victim more than a perpetrator. As a footsoldier in the War on Men, especially the War on Christian Men, you ignore this possibility.
It is sad to see the media attack an innocent Christian family over a little bit of stereotypical incestuous behavior.
I gotta say though, if you have 19 kids it’s probably too many to dedicate enough individual parenting time to, thereby almost guaranteeing the chances at least one of them is going to be a sicko are probably pretty high.
You see the Duggars are part of the Quiverfull movement. I’ll let you look it up yourself but as you may already guess it is another throwback and insulting to the dignity of the human race.
I fail to understand why people advocate gunmen running around the streets, turning our country into a Somalia like hell when we still have the power to vote. Stop voting against your best interests. Just because people are giving candidates billions of dollars does not mean they are the best candidate to represent the people – probably quite the contrary. Whoever professes to be most pious and religious probably isn’t – probably quite the contrary. We shouldn’t be voting for people based on religion anyway. We should be voting for those who can responsibly govern and put citizens first.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
“We should be voting for those who can responsibly govern and put citizens first.”
That behavior won’t even get your name on the ballot.
Big Business, Big Defense, Big Media, Wall Street, the One Percenters, and even competitive government agencies insure only candidates they can live with even make it to the ballot.
Average people don’t want to vote against their best interests. They simply vote for the candidate least against their best interests… or, for the dumbed-down crowd, they vote for whoever will offer the short-term bribe or preach the most emotional triggers.
…yet in the end, they still get nearly the same result.
Gunmen turning America into a Somalia-like hell is not the same as very targeted action against very specific individuals who have the intent to enrich/empower themselves through the slow destruction of America or the (somewhat hyperbolic) enslavement of its citizens.
Everyone should hesitate to advocate this outright… as it could well lead to unintended consequences that are worse than the current situation… as those who rise to power in such a movement would find it hard to let it go once the mission was accomplished… though, perhaps, a very decentralized movement of motivated self-starters, such as Anonymous does with hacking, could solve the problem and then evaporate when the government once again serves the collection of citizens that form a nation.
Consider your feeling about this…
If you had your assets, everything you worked hard for in your entire life, seized over some manufactured nonsense completely unrelated to a crime… and everyone involved knew there was no crime… how would you feel about targeted violence toward those who knowingly, perhaps gleefully, robbed you to increase their own power and prestige?
Would you consider this justice or would you just start over, condemn the violence, and simply write your congressman and threaten to withhold your vote on the next election? Would you consider targeted violence a reasonable option to stop a highly-unjust, highly-unbalanced, self-perpetuating predatory system that seemingly cannot be stopped at the voting booth or through the courts?
How would you feel about this same violence against these same individuals even if the victim was an innocent fellow American stranger.
Again, it is hard to advocate this type of action completely outside the structure of the law… but as the “structure” of the law becomes distorted and predatory, and sometimes selectively ignored by those in power, and selectively enforced against those with power, it seems there is a point where the best option of reasonable citizens is re-level the balance of power through whatever tools they have.
When the ballot box is no longer a tool for change, as it is now, there are few other options.
This is just something to consider as we observe where America goes in the next few decades.
“Would you consider targeted violence a reasonable option to stop a highly-unjust, highly-unbalanced, self-perpetuating predatory system that seemingly cannot be stopped at the voting booth or through the courts?”
Depends on if I felt strongly enough to die for it. Because that would be the end result, no matter how many mags, bullets, and AR-15’s I had in my arsenal.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
“Depends on if I felt strongly enough to die for it. Because that would be the end result, no matter how many mags, bullets, and AR-15’s I had in my arsenal.”
So the only tactic you can come up with for targeted violence is charging in with an AR-15 in each hand.
Okeydokey then.
I’m sure there will be a place for you when the Revolution starts… just not in operations.
Google these names to understand what is possible if there is motivation.
Thomas C. Wales
Officer Jason Ellis
Ray Gricar
This is just a cross section of possible methods from a larger pool of examples.
I again ask…
If you were unjustly victimized by a system designed to victimize you, would you feel comfortable using stealthy violence against those who victimized you? Especially if you could get by with it?
With the tinfoil hat off, one could guess the push for a complete surveillance state is to protect against “terrorists”… just not the ones that are being marketed.
Possibly, Leon. Who knows if it against the individual or the group?
There are tens of fatal police ambushes each year… and more non-fatal ones. It is hard to know how many are targeted, opportunistic, or desperate. It is also hard to know how many are solved and unsolved. And it is hard to know how many were done for what an average person would consider just reasons.
Those events are seemingly concealed… e.g. I know, close second-hand, of a particularly shytty IRS agent who was almost killed but didn’t make the news at the time… and I can find no reference to it on the internet (though I cannot remember his name). Even other IRS workers thought he had it coming. Nobody was ever caught for this.
Ken McElroy is a good example of people taking initiative when the law fails.
I bring all this up because, for too many, the Law has not only failed but has become part of the problem… protecting criminals, from Wall Street to Looters of Color. It is being used as a tool by Big Business, Big Defense, Big Media, Wall Street, the One Percenters to raape the middle class and buy off the bottom class to stay at the bottom.
Observations of government and One Percent behavior indicate that an angry population with diminishing hope and opportunity, forced into a reduced lifestyle from what they expected while the elite flaunt their wealth and power, is increasingly viewed as an existential threat.
Now, Leon, you have avoided the question twice.
If you were unjustly victimized and had no recourse in a system designed to deny justice, would you resort to violence against those responsible if you could get by with it? Start your answer with “yes” or “no”, Leon.
CH, You know it would be unwise to answer that in a public forum and you know why. 😉
ChickenHead
9 years ago
Exactly, Leon…
But the real question was, “Is there a silent majority of normal, productive citizens who generally support the System until the system fails them completely and they start looking for other ways to resolve their issues?”
The System is (probably) a long way off from fully failing people at your level…
…but there is a growing class of willingly productive people who are above the professional dependent who are being imcreasingly failed by the System.
Regardless of who they vote for, their semi-skilled job will be replaced by a foreign worker. The financial system will prey upon them through high interest on loans they fall into and fees for bank interactions the System requires them to have. Any retirement they may hope for will be inflated away through government waste. They will be nickle and dimed to death with little fees, taxes, traffic tickets, and court costs. Any chance of them helping themselves will be blocked with regulations, inspections, licenses, permissions, and the need for excessive capital to start a business.
These people have higher expectations than the chronic poor. If voting for copies of the same candidate or demonstrating in limited Free Speech Zones with politicians trying to hijack the message, police trying to discredit by inciting violence, and the media misreporting the real situation and focusing on the rantings of an extremist minority, can’t change the System and bend it to do its job of taking care of productive citizens and giving them the structure to be productive, then they will start looking for ways to change the System to serve them.
They will become what the government and media are now laying the groundwork to paint as “domestic terrorists” or “right wing extremists”… turning to blame-assigning racism, the empty promises of extreme Christianity, the false hope of survivalism, the downward spiral of crime, the escapism of drugs, etc..
Perhaps a few will turn to communism or socialiism, pushing the government to care for them… and pushing them into the ranks of the chronic dependent poor if they get their wish.
But a percentage of this population may try to determine who is responsible for their misfortune… and attempt to solve the problem…
…targeting cops handing out revenue-inspired tickets to people just trying to get to work on time… the border patrol guy looking for assets to confiscate rather than job-stealing illegals to arrest… the judge who hands out one dollar fines for the misdeeds of Big Business… the politicians who promise jobs and opportunity but support corporate welfare-financed subsistance jobs and more regulation over anybody trying to create their own opportunity… the tax agents who confiscate assets over tax bills it would be illegal for any other organization to inflate at the same rate… the CEOs who keep cutting jobs and benefits while increasing their own pay as they hop from one company to the next and drive them all into the ground… etc. etc. etc.
America is a target-rich environment for some extra-judicial justice… that even average, non-violent Americans might not strongly condemn… and might actually support… and it just takes a few intelligent, thoughtful, and motivated people to formulate a clear message and get the ball rolling for the copycats to follow.
Side note: studying how the jihadists operate and then replacing Islam with anything from patriotism to doomsday Christianity tailored to American sensibilities would be a very workable place to start.
Right now, this isn’t going to happen. While the vast majority of the population has been disenfranchised, the effects have not fully trickled down… and the bottom level has been bought off with welfare and misdirected with propaganda.
But, as the effects trickle down… and a higher and higher level of person is replaced with low-paid foreigners and robots… and they see their elected officials making empty promises to the masses while working for those at the top, there may come a time when the Quiet Revolution gradually starts and elements of the People attempt to push American leadership to make sure the institution of America can benefit the majority of Americans.
Based on training, purchases, and infrastructure, it would seem the government is preparing for this possibility (probability? inevitably?).
It would be prudent to be aware of it and plan accordingly.
tbonetylr
9 years ago
Jail for GOP Woman Who Ran Over Husband For Not Voting Against Obama.
Pastor’s Wife Says Josh Duggar Was Just ‘Playing Doctor’ And Blames Victims.
Josh Duggar Made Incest Joke on TV(video).
Pastor shot outside church for planting Memorial Day flags.
‘America’s Toughest Sheriff’ Wants You to Pay His Legal Fees.
Young Earth Creationist Defends Duggar and Blames Evolutionists.
Arkansas Lawmaker Wants Police Chief Who Released Duggar Police Report Fired.
setnaffa
9 years ago
tbone sure knows a lot about Jerry Springer kinda news…
Interesting how some folks can adapt their deeply held beliefs….
Jim Bob Duggar had a very different view of incest when he ran the the U.S. Senate in 2002. The God that it is claimed has forgiven son Josh was nowhere in sight when he advocated for the death penalty for incest.
Jim Bob’s platform on his campaign website—preserved via web cache—states that he believes “rape and incest represent heinous crimes and as such should be treated as capital crimes.”
tbone, what’s up with all the anger? I suggest you stick to one topic you are sincere about per open thread and actually put some thought and effort into your posts rather than walls of copy-pasta where the only portion you insert are the insults. Perhaps you could engage ChickenHead and Setnaffa with meaningful point-counterpoint discussions. Rather than trying to make a convincing argument, you come across as only trolling. Not that trolling is always a bad thing, it can serve a purpose to make a point, but try to be more creative.
tbonetylr
9 years ago
“I suggest you stick to one topic you are sincere about per open thread…”
I suggest you do that on “Open Threads,” got it? What other rules would you like to make?
“Perhaps you could engage ChickenHead and Setnaffa”
Perhaps you could let them disengage inside you!
ChickenHead
9 years ago
Hey Leon, disengaging inside you sounds like it might be worth trying… as long as Setnaffa goes last.
Up next, I may try to ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long.
Sometimes Tbone says thing that really make a lot of sense upon consideration.
He is really more of a philosopher or profit than a simple commenter.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
Another link for you, Leon…
It seem the crowd didn’t believe a cop should be hassling citizens over drinking in public.
Leon, how can I take such a stupid suggestion seriously? It goes against “OPEN THREAD” you typical GOP’er!
tbonetylr
9 years ago
DPRK Women Making More Money Than Men In Government Through Gray Market
Even in N. Korea men are lazy.
http://www.ibtimes.com/north-korean-women-making-more-money-men-government-through-gray-market-1937939
“According to a study published by South Korea’s government-run Korea Institute for National Unification, women are responsible for more than 70 percent of household income in the insular country. In North Korea’s male-dominated society, women are reportedly able to find jobs as traders at unofficial markets, which have began to grow in recent years.”
setnaffa
9 years ago
I’m just not certain why tbone continues with the cisgender rants?
I wonder if he confused Stokely Carmichael’s experiences with physical violence over Civil Rights protests in Alabama before he was born (which caused him to help found the Black Panthers) and getting teased on the internet?
I wonder if he can ever channel all that anger into something that helps the people he feels are being oppressed (as opposed to merely reacting and spreading ill-will)?
And frankly, I’m not certain which groups he feels are being oppressed, other than himself.
ChickenHead
9 years ago
Setnaffa,
When the Revolution starts, it will start with guys like Tbone.
…guys that feel they deserve more in life because they have an “education” but no job… or opportunity… or hope. Some of these guys, like Tbone, bring it upon themselves to a large extent. Some will be victims of the System.
Some of them will gravitate to liberal activism… channeling their anger and disappointment into serving “just causes”. They will surround themselves with those of like mind and situation… and the meetings and demonstrations and self-reinforcing serious conversations will appease their demons for a time… a long time for most of them. The government, as always, will control the leadership… bribing them with credibility-enhancing attention… which allows them to consolidate power and money within their group. There will be hopeful speeches from all sides, the creation of fancy-sounding programs, and some carefully-calculated benefits to bribe the masses to remain at the anger point where government sociologists studying the group dynamics say they will remain stable and dependent.
A few will resort to leftist violence against the Man… as has happened before throughout American history… shooting a few cops, blowing up a few buildings (or themselves through incompetence), dorking around with other half-baked ideas at turning America into a communist paradise where the capitalists, industrialists, bankers, politicians, jack-booted police, et. al., will be punished and abolished… which doesn’t sound like a bad plan in the beginning, as all of these groups have certainly abused their position, power, and authority… which is probably how all the failed leftist regimes in history have rightfully started… forgetting that you NEED capitalists, industrialists, bankers, politicians, and police, in a functioning society… just not fake ones that have become members of a plutocracy.
While they can cause irritation, hardcore American liberals generally lack the skillsets, mindsets, and ratonal thinking skills necessary for really effective paramilitary operations against the Man. Being hardcore liberal is the first clue that they are lacking something.
Right wingers will turn to right wing causes… racism, nationalism, sentimental patriotism, libertarianism… and with a much higher percentage of gun users and combat-tested veterans, there may be a number that accomplish many of the violent goals the left-wingers wish to do… and for similar reasons.
There could be interesting times ahead. There certainly are a number of global and national political, social, and financial issues that don’t seem to have easy resolutions through traditional means.
Historically, the drums of war start beating in times like these. They are beating softly now.
A Public Policy Polling (PPP) national survey conducted between February 20th and February 22nd of Republican voters, found that an astonishing 57 percent of Republicans want to dismantle the Constitution, and establish Christianity as the official national religion. Only 30 percent oppose making Christianity the national religion.
While a number of red states have passed statutes forbidding the implementation of Islam-based sharia law in their states, Republicans apparently have no misgivings about turning the United States into a Christian theocracy. The poll’s crosstabs reveal that support for making Christianity the official religion is strongest among Mike Huckabee (94 percent), Rick Perry (83 percent), and Ben Carson (78 percent) supporters.
Ben Carson is the preferred presidential candidate of those who want to impose Christianity on the nation with 24 percent support. Mike Huckabee and Scott Walker are tied for 2nd place at 16 percent. Scott Walker (35 percent) and Jeb Bush (22 percent) are the leading candidates among GOP voters who do not want to establish a national religion.
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/02/25/57-republicans-dismantle-constitution-christianity-national-religion.html
What Leon didn’t mention is that PPP is a Democratic polling organization and this “survey” had a sample size of only 316 Republican primary voters from an undisclosed location.
There should be more consideration on how this poll was conducted before it is given the instant credibility the media has raced to give it.
Mob of teens attack bystander who tries to break up brawl inside Brooklyn McDonald’s
http://pix11.com/2015/05/14/watch-brawl-breaks-out-in-brooklyn-mcdonalds-teens-turn-on-bystanders-and-workers/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWeth5OGOxQ
2. Regardless of your personal opinion, it shows a dangerous trend which should alarm all of us, including religious folks. Just because it is a democratic poll, it doesn’t automatically invalidate it. This is also the normal sampling for such a poll though on the low end.
You cannot deny you have detected these people’s existence. You can usually find them hanging out with the Tea Party. Any number above 1 from any size group favoring this position is alarming. This is not “made up.” To deny this mindset exists is folly. It isn’t the caliphate we have to worry about.
GOP Attacks Pope and believe he should not get involved in politics(you know…like GOP’ers separate church and state SOOOOOOOOOOOOO remarkably! And they’re angry because…the Pope called the Palestinian leader an ‘‘Angel Of Peace.’ AND… because Vatican Recognizes Palestinian State (May 13, 2015)…AND Pope Condemns War Profiteers: ‘Industry Of Death’ (May 12, 2015)
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/israel-hawks-to-pop-francis-stay-out-of-politics-117929.html#ixzz3aFuW0E00
“After Pope Francis moved to recognize a Palestinian state, some gung-ho defenders of Israel suggested the pontiff should stick to preaching and stay out of politics.
“It’s interesting how the Vatican has gotten so political when ultimately the Vatican ought to be working to lead people to Jesus Christ and salvation, and that’s what the Church is supposed to do,” said Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-S.C.), a hawkish defender of Israel…
“I’m surprised that the pope would recognize Palestine when they’re still haters who want to eliminate Israel off the map and don’t recognize Israel,” said Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), a member of the Israel Allies Caucus. “The Pope is the head of his religion, and he makes those calls for himself, but I represent 700,000 people from East Texas and a vast majority agree with me.”
Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.), who co-chairs the caucus, was even bolder, calling the pontiff’s position into question on Biblical grounds.
“He’s a religious figure and he has every right to have his political viewpoint, but someone of that profile should have strong scriptural foundation for whatever positions he takes that are extensively representing the head of the Catholic Church,” Franks said. “I think this is probably one he should not have expressed.”
Allen West Throws Tantrum At Pope (May 14, 2015)
“What Leon didn’t mention is that PPP is a Democratic polling organization”
Got it, I’ll start believing Fox News surveys. 凸＇へ＇凸
Jindal Says Obama Won’t Kill ISIS Leaders On Same Day Top Leader Is Killed
May 16, 2015
After suggesting that Muslim clerics are refusing to condemn ISIS, another dubious claim, Jindal challenged Obama to “do his job” and “hunt down and kill these terrorists.”
Wow, Jindal is SOOOOOOOOOOO smart. How come President Obama couldn’t think of that?
Republicans in Iowa this weekend continue to bash President Obama with false information. Or maybe Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal just doesn’t get the news.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/bobby-jindal-thinks-obama-isnt-killing-isis-leaders-same-day-us-killed-isis-top-leader
“However, Louisiana Gov. and likely presidential candidate Bobby Jindal told the Iowa National Security Action Summit that Obama has been weak on ISIS and suggested that he won’t target the group’s leaders.”
GOP State Lawmaker Defends Bike Tax: Says Biking Not Good For Environment
http://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2013/03/02/state-lawmaker-says-bicycling-is-not-good-for-the-environment-should-be-taxed/
“Representative Ed Orcutt (R – Kalama) does not think bicycling is environmentally friendly because the activity causes cyclists to have “an increased heart rate and respiration.”
This is according to comments he made in an email to a constituent who questioned the wisdom of a new bike tax the legislature is considering as part of a large transportation package…
“You would be giving off more CO2 if you are riding a bike than driving in a car,” he said. However, he said he had not “done any analysis” of the difference in CO2 from a person on a bike compared to the engine of a car”
Leon,
I have a hard time getting worked up over hyperbole that “57 percent of Republicans want to dismantle the Constitution” without knowing a little bit more about how that conclusion was arrived at.
It’s like saying 94% of Democrats think it’s correct to kill babies.
But, you are right… there is a percentage of people who would love to force a little more Jesus into the lives of others if given the chance… or, more accurately, force a little more of the aspects of Jesus they pick and choose to promote their own biases and agendas.
Fortunately, the courts have kept these fake do-gooders in check.
10. Several right wing presidential candidates have already indicated they feel justified in ignoring the courts, especially concerning their interpretation of their cherry picked “good book.” Enough folks seem to support these same candidates… So I believe it is at least prudent to be aware of this trend.
I’ve seen too many stories recently of state level right wingers attempting to push all sort of crazy religious based laws. That tells me there is grass roots support. Someone is electing these folks.
It’s also worth noting the courts have failed us numerous times on this issue, hence the johnny come lately god added to our money and our pledge during the 50’s red scare.
Leon, you make good points.
Ignoring the courts has become somewhat of a bipartisan habit lately… and some of the rightwing candidates certainly would like to ignore the courts to push more Jesus.
And, somebody is electing some of these people to office… though that might not be entirely the way it seems… as the two choices could be someone who promotes family values, law and order, and wants to push more Jesus… or someone who loves welfare, promotes gun control, and thinks career criminals are more admirable than devout Christians .
But, of course, the right wing and the left wing are just two wings of the same shytbird.
Nonetheless, it is encouraging that, apart from trivial issues like God on money, the courts have taken a secular view towards issues that have a real impact in society… from alcohol prohibition to pr0n to homosexual issues.
Here is something to soothe your mind a bit…
http://infidels.org/library/modern/church-state/decisions.html
In the context of history, the Constitution, and the 70-75% of Americans who believe in God, it is not unreasonable that God pops up in political decisions now and then… and volumes have been written on “Civil Religion” and the actual separation of church and state in America… which is pretty good.
I don’t have any fear at the moment of a theocracy banning property, behaviors, or thoughts that are currently American rights…
…but, you are likely correct. It is prudent to be aware of this trend.
Harriet Tubman New Face on $20 bill. I can’t wait, but I’ll have to start saving/buying $10 bills because after a cash purchase half the whites(especially GOP’ers down south) will be asking for change in tens…”Duh, could I have that in tens?”
One USA soldier has died in Iraq this year…
http://www.real-time-with-bill-maher-blog.com/index/2015/5/13/operation-selective-memory
“So far in 2015 only one American soldier has died in Iraq. In 2014, there were three. The year before that there was only one.
Now let’s take a look at the middle of George Bush’s presidency: in 2004, there were 849 American soldiers killed in Iraq. In 2005, 846. In 2006, 823.
Of the 4490 American soldiers killed in Iraq, only 268 came during the Obama presidency; 94 percent are on Bush’s watch. And the reason is clear: because Obama pulled the combat troops out of Iraq. All of them.
Whenever Bush or Cheney or McCain or someone else on the right talks about the chaos that has ensued since we left Iraq, liberals automatically go to, “Well, you caused it!” And they did. Republicans have a bit of a case of selective memory when it comes to Iraq. And when I say “a bit” I mean “clinically diagnosable.”
Read the rest…
“Harriet Tubman New Face on $20 bill.”
Tbone, I am glad you are happy and hopeful… but…
The Wright Brothers invented the airplane, Bell invented the telephone, and Edison invented the light bulb… but Tubman’s invention of the subway just doesn’t reach that standard.
..not to mention that she was for women’s suffering.
…though her work with the gay community was admirable, as she had an influence on Harper’s fairy.
Nonetheless, I agree with you. It would be nice for the federal government to recognize a back-alley crack whore isn’t the only option when you want to have a black woman for twenty bucks.
‘White-on-white’ violence erupts as biker gang ‘thugs’ kill 9 in shootout at a Waco, Texas restaurant
http://twitchy.com/2015/05/17/white-on-white-violence-erupts-as-biker-gang-thugs-kill-9-in-shootout-at-a-waco-texas-restaurant/
The difference, as Denny knows, is that the bikers won’t be burning down a pharmacy so they can steal toilet paper.
Well, that, and no white leaders are going to go on the talk show circuit to talk about #whitelivesmatter.
And it’s news because, unlike Baltimore, St Louis, Chicago, or any number of black on black violence venues, it doesn’t happen every day.
Tbone still blaming Bush for Obama’s foreign policy. Wasn’t Joe Biden crowing about the victory in Iraq as though Obama won it?
Hint: Yes https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFGMiQOHltg
Setnaffa,
“Well, that, and no white leaders are going to go on the talk show circuit to talk about #whitelivesmatter.”
…and average whites aren’t going to take to the street and throw rocks at cops while yelling about how they violated the rights of the gentle giant bikers who were all aspiring nu-metal artists who were just starting to turn their lives around.
Tbone is so funny, Setnaffa. Don’t respond to his trolling. Just make fun of him with more a higher standard of trolling.
And so it begins. Even a biker fight is a reason to bring up Obammy. (From various sources. Posted for entertainment purposes only)
Anonymous
me being the skeptic that I am, I wonder if this was “arranged” by our lovely gov’t, maybe as practice to see what they can “accomplish” (manipulate the gangs to fight somehow) and create another possible reason to declare Martial Law in an area.
Dan
Watching for the false flag cavil unrest to be used to declare a state of emergency to coincide with the deployed troops. I worked security for clubs a good part of my life. Never had a biker problem, always talked to the enforcer at the door and always had assurance nothing would happen in the club. Even with rivals in the bar, never a problem. Remember, things are not always what they seem.
Juan Herrera
It’s a reason for the Marshall law to kick in
Vee Kay
Early shades of Jade Helm…
GOLOC
Both gangs have fed infiltration, now the question is, did the undercover agents instigate this to start a shooting war False Flag ? but here’s the real Problem, when the cops took to getting involved in the shooting war, THEY F ed up, Now the Bandidos and other MC’s, Desperiods, Free Wheeler’s, etc and the Cossacks Will more than Likely, turn there Anger towards the Cops for shooting MC members, the Jails will probably be going wild, but It’s the Cops who Have the Problem now, This is Fixing to get interesting and Bloody.
GOLOC
Maybe that’s what that Big circle on Texas, on the Jade Helm map is for, the False Flag shooting war, that are HARP, with all the constant Rain, but We will see were this goes and how far, if they start shooting cops then will have a pretty good clue, as to WHY ? the Big Circle on Texas.
All_These_Things_That_Ive_Done
Why are people down voting you? Shills? Your post are certainly plausible make perfect sense. I don’t think there is any coincidence on the timing, none at all.
R Lee DeJaynes
You guys are playing right into the POS-POTUS’s plan for martial law!!
Joshua McCracken
You sure a Bandito or a Cossack didn’t receive a little cha-ching from recent ex-DOJ Holder? Odd that he resigned right before this all started, after he ran guns to border groups. Just sayin’.
Laura Key
I smell a government orchestrated false flag…. again. Just like the feds also did in Seattle and other cities in the U.S.. The U.S. government has an agenda… create chaos to push martial law or whatever else they can use to “control” people.
Enough for now. Wow. Just wow.
Leon, there is a lot of foolishness out there… especially when cherrypicking for foolishness… though on some sites, there is likely nothing but low-hanging fruit.
…but, with my tinfoil hat removed, I also see that there are MANY well-documented and undisputed cases (in both past and immediately history) where government agents embedded in a group (from anti-globalization animal-loving tree-hugging hippies to far-right neo-Nazis survivalists) have encouraged violence and instigated trouble just so there could be some sort of crackdown where one was not really needed or couldn’t be rationalized.
It is a perfectly reasonable suspicion that government elements within these gangs started some level of conflict that intentionally or unintentionally ended at the level of violence that it did.
The reason for this could be anything from a very reasonable theory of doing what the DEA could not (this has been done before)… to a more paranoid idea that there have been too many blacks and cops in the news and it is time to show there are dangerous white criminals as well… so “but white bikers” can be a response to counter “but black thugs”. Or it could just be a case of some level of government/law enforcement encouraging more low-level criminal disorder so they can pass more laws and buy more toys.
I should add that it isn’t exactly martial law… but law enforcement is blaming the business for all this… as if it is their responsibility to make sure there are no criminal biker gangs… or as if they can’t be easily sued for refusing service to someone for no legally defined reason.
Law enforcement’s lazy martial law-like response has been to shut down all the businesses at Central Texas Marketplace… as if bikers are going to bring attention to themselves by having another running gun battle between Old Navy and David’s Bridal.
http://ucr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Central-Texas-Marketplace-Hero.jpg
Yes, Leon, there is a lot of stupid anti-government nonsense out there and it isn’t hard to find if you go looking for it… but that does not mean it is all wrong and the government is actually here to help you.
Instead of promoting this stupid stuff, which is generally promoted to tarnish similar but more reasonable theories, you might consider simply stating what YOU believe happened… and why.
It was too many bikers in too small an area with failed leadership and lax discipline… to mind control rays from black helicopters shipped in from the Denver Airport in support of Jade Helm… or something in between.
Thank you ROKDROP for maintaining this blog. I have been lurking for a long time and am done with Leon’s nonsense. About 200 of the people whom PPP chose to call answered yes to the question “Would you support or oppose establishing Christianity as the national religion?”
(1) We don’t know how PPP (well known for being liberal partisans) chose to these people. PPP did not provide information on its sampling methods.
(2) Nowhere in the questions does it say anything about dismantling the Constitution. If you actually asked them that question you would have probably gotten different answers. You are uncharitably misrepresenting the opinions they expressed (perhaps that is why PPP asked the question in the first place).
(3) The question is ambiguous. There are many possible interpretations of the question. Again, if you randomly drawn Republicans if they want an official state religion you will probably get much less support. I suspect most of these people did not interpret the question they way liberals are portraying the question. Christianity is the de facto official religion, and most respondents probably just wanted to maintain this status quo.
(4) If most Republican primary voters actually want Christianity as the state religion, it is surprising that no candidate has advocated for establishing a state religion.
Quite frankly, Leon’s reaction to this poll reveals his own bigotry towards traditional America.
“traditional America” lol. Please define.
Thank you, “long-time lurker”.
Leon does have a reflective belt view of Western Culture… 😉
I like the “mind control rays from black helicopters shipped in from the Denver Airport in support of Jade Helm” theory myself… Sounds like something from Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers or some similar low-budgest SciFi serial from the 1940s… with a bit of Shilla intrigue: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Korea-Silla_kingdom-Gold_crown_from_Geumgwanchong-No.191-01D.jpg/220px-Korea-Silla_kingdom-Gold_crown_from_Geumgwanchong-No.191-01D.jpg
Setnaffa, I am leaning towards the black helicopter theory myself…
…being this whole deal is starting to sound increasingly like bullshyt.
Let’s take a look at some facts and how they fit in to the story that is being pushed on the public.
– The story has been evolving… and is still full of obvious untruths. This being marketed as a “recruitment meeting” is the first joke.
– This same meeting, discussing general biker issues among groups, has been going on for 18 years with no issues… and none were expected this time… as usual
– Law enforcement had “intel” there was going to be violence and had officers nearby.
– There is no gain for bikers to engage in this behavior in this situation… and were likely well-instructed on this… as they have been for 18 years.
– The bikers “started shooting at our officers” is improbable… though shooting back is less improbable.
– The more the story comes out, it appears most of the dead bikers were shot by police.
– There is lots of talk of a large number of “weapons” but no talk of guns… very uncharacteristic of the media which loves to talk about guns… especially when they are used by white people… although the bikers had quite a few browns and a few blacks… a fact also not making the news which is promoting the impression that this was a whites-only event
– the “bikers are now targeting law enforcement” alarmist propaganda has begun… pushing the actually-happening “black man ambushes cop” events out of the news.
– law enforcement is stopping cars at checkpoints due to this “targeting”… stroking off the fears and fantasies of the Jade Helm paranoids… who may sound stupid but don’t sound exactly wrong.
This really is starting to sound like a set-up by law enforcement to “get” these bikers… probably because traditional investigation techniques were not working. Bonus points are awarded for creating a war between clubs, promoting an anti-biker agenda, drawing attention away from black thugs, etc.
Once more of this story gets out, especially after the bikers are released and tell their side, this event will likely have a very different explanation… but the earlier version of the story will be the one burned into the public consciousness.
There are a few bikers who lurk around here. It would be interesting to hear their opinion on this.
Parade to celebrate President Obama’s Iraq policy in Anbar…
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/05/isis-holds-massive-military-parade-in-west-anbar-celebrating-victory-in-ramadi-wheres-the-coalition/
Government shooting unpopular groups in Waco? Whoever heard of such a thing? And did anyone notice who sat next to Janet Reno at the hearings about Waco (Mt. Carmel) last time?
26. I tend to agree with your assessment that something is fishy here.
MC’s do not want this sort of exposure, especially all the pains they go through to present a kinder gently image in their communities. No one in the MC world wins here.
Some of my observations:
Unlike undisciplined street gang thugs, many bikers have military training and if they did do a majority of shooting. avoided civilian casualties and got their targets. But if that is the case, how is it none of the cops got shot? (The only reported police “casualty” was a heat casualty)
How many of the off duty cops who happened to be in the area were already wearing body armor?
The larger clubs do not have black members but most “white” clubs do allow Hispanics and even East Asian members. The old saying is; “if you have one black in the club, it’s a black club.” There are many “black” MC’s which associate with “white” MC’s but they are different clubs. It’s not necessarily about overt racism (though that certainly exists) but more of a case of how things have always been done and relations between clubs. (Sons of Anarchy, which I despise, kinda got that right)
I will be curious how many dead and wounded have .223 or 5.56 bullets in them. Even more so about the final ballistics report which will indicate who shot whom (and who, if anyone, was shot in the back).
How many of those shot can be proven to have had a firearm in their hand?
I’m betting most of the bikers with firearms had legal weapons with concealed carry permits.
I’m also troubled about the police saying the venue was somehow responsible. Do they have a pre-cog at their disposal? Where’s the printout of the minority report? As you stated, these meetings are well publicized. http://www.localendar.com/elsie?JSP=PublishedCalendar&mode=PUBLISH_PUBLIC&search_type=M0&start_date=05/01/15&calendar_id=519330
I have often railed against the over militarized and out of control police and “justice” system though even if this turns out to be true, I believe it was not orchestrated at the national level (administration) nor does it lend any credence to the Jade Helm conspiracies. This stands alone.
Then again, it may turn out that the current reports are true and it is what it is. We aren’t talking about choirboys here.
/Finally, I wonder, is anyone going to slam Obammy for the latest news he is taking some of the military hardware away from the over militarized police?
#whitelivesmatter #bikerlivesmatter #reflectivebeltsrule
This is what stinks to me. These guys in MC’s are not Muslim and are not suicidal. Though I am firmly 2nd amendment, this would also point out a flaw in the conceit that citizens can use their personal weapons to stand against the government. We’re taking Waco PD, not the Marines or Army. It would appear the cops easily slaughtered them.
…additionally, I expect DoD fallout which will reach worldwide. I can just about bet you with a great degree of certainty that there were soldiers, civilians and contractors present on the scene wearing colors….
“who may sound stupid but don’t sound exactly wrong.”
Yep, you ARE a BACKWARDS EGGHEAD!!!
“but the earlier version of the story will be the one burned into the public consciousness.”
The “earlier” version ain’t that important to Fox News you EGGHEAD i.e. WAR on IRAQ.
“this would also point out a flaw in the conceit that citizens can use their personal weapons to stand against the government”
…unless, in reality, none of the bikers actually used their firearms… perhaps not against each other… and likely not against the police.
As it seems HIGHLY unlikely that bikers decided to rumble at a publicized meeting openly surrounded by law enforcement, it is probable that the real story is very different from what we are being told.
The news and police hyping “hundreds of weapons” but not mentioning how many “firearms” is an indicator that reality does not reflect the perception they are trying to push. If one were to do an honest count, it might be found that many of these “weapons” were Leathermans and other potentially (but hardly ideal) dual use items that were present but not used.
If I was to propose a theory, it would go something like this…
Undercover law enforcement was present and acted as an agent provocateur to start some trouble… with the intention of giving the waiting law enforcement a reason to get involved. This started as a normal fight for contrived reasons at a function where everyone was well aware to be on their best behavior… and, perhaps, it was not even a fight but an attempt to restrain the undercover officer from trying to start one.
As soon as it got serious, the undercover officer decided as a cop, he could pull out his firearm and be in the right, as he was “in danger”… while still not clearly identifying himself as law enforcement.
Bikers who were there for the peaceful, publicized meeting openly surrounded by law enforcement were now in a situation that required legitimate self defense… protecting themselves against a troublemaker who drew a firearm and posed a threat more immediate than the police outside.
This situation caused the conflict and confusions law enforcement had been trying to create… and, though it is not clear who shot whom, the surrounding law enforcement with scary black rifles and the cover of their vehicles opened fire on a parking lot full of bikers who had no idea who was a friend and who was an enemy.
This is just a possible scenario… but it makes a lot more sense than the official story that a bunch of gun-toting gangsters at a secret recruiting meeting in a business that promoted violence decided to have a gun fight with each other and then with cops but the cops, who were well prepared, were able to use their military hardware and tactics to save countless innocent bystanders.
That just stinks from all sides.
One other thing, Leon. When people claim nonsense like, “flaw in the conceit that citizens can use their personal weapons to stand against the government,” I must ask how uneducated goat herders in a barren desert with DIY guns made out of scrap metal and rebar barrels managed to hold off a military armed with everything from smart bombs to spy satellites to FLIR?
Citizens CAN use their personal weapons to stand against government… just not one at a time.
And as long as the government divides the citizens by race, class, education, region, group affiliation, sex, sexuality, etc., it is hard to get more organized than that.
From what I have read, the Bandidos were the main group at the event. I also read they are a largely Hispanic group and pretty much run Texas as far as MC’s go.
The story is that the Cossacks have been making a run for the throne and that they showed up to start trouble.
Not inconceivable that these two groups would have some tension that could get out of hand, but I have to agree with you gents. It seems a bit fishy and convenient the way the events unfolded.
The Black Lives Matter crowd is already harping on the “white-on-white” crime and wondering how many of these guys didn’t have fathers in the picture. As if it’s a contest to see who can ignore their own race’s problems by highlighting another’s.
Leon, talk radio is slamming Obama for taking away tools that the police need to quell rioters and maintain order. I haven’t read the exact contents of his mandate or what it prohibits, but most of us here know the dangers of giving the police expensive toys that have to be used frequently to justify their upkeep in the budget. As long as the cops aren’t being neutered, I agree with his actions on this one. I likely don’t agree with his reasons, as he is probably just doing it to placate the BLM movement and their oversensitive reaction when anyone attempts to stop them from burning down their own neighborhoods.
Well, the goat herders have no problem using their population as human shields. I would hope Americans are not so far gone as to do the same.
If things ever got bad enough that the military was turned loose on the common citizenry, then who ever was in charge probably wouldn’t be as concerned about rules of engagement as we have been in recent conflicts.
Then again, I have always thought that the area surrounding Fayetteville would end up with a huge insurgency because of all the retired SF guys who live around there.
Inferior forces equipped with inferior weaponry have fought superior forces to a draw or a stalemate in the past.
Not saying I think that is likely. Just talking hypothetically.
You can find a list of the names of the arrestees in the Texas shootout here. Some names are linked to their mugshot photos if available. About 5 of the names appeared to be female, but after clicking on one apparently female name that was linked to a photo, Sandra Erler Lynch, I’m not so are.
Screwed up the link to the list page. Here it is again.
JoeC,
“The Black Lives Matter crowd is already harping on the “white-on-white” crime…”
“…doing it to placate the BLM movement and their oversensitive reaction…”
Hah!
Jay Z and Beyonce now involved in Black Lives Matter
http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/jay-z–beyonc—and-black-lives-matter-447376963976
http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/jay-z-and-beyonc-reportedly-bail-out-protesters.html
“Jay Z’s support for the #BlackLivesMatter protests isn’t just limited to freestyle shout-outs: According to a string of since-deleted tweets from Source editor turned activist dream hampton, who collaborated with Jay on his 2010 book Decoded, Jay Z and Beyoncé have been quietly donating thousands of dollars in aid to the movement. “When we needed money for bail for Baltimore protesters, I … hit Jay up, as I had for Ferguson,” hampton wrote. He delivered, wiring “tens of thousands” in a matter of minutes. And he didn’t just send bail money: “When BLM needed infrastructure money for the many chapters we’re growing like beautiful dandelions, Carters wrote a huge check.” This squares with other rumors that have come out in recent months, as well as Jay’s own boast on “Nickels and Dimes”: “The purest form of giving is anonymous to anonymous … You don’t know all the shit I do for homies.”
“When BLM needed infrastructure money for the many chapters we’re growing like beautiful dandelions, Carters wrote a huge check.”
Tbone, what the heck is BLM? Does that stand for Baltimore’s Looting Monkeys?
“we’re growing like beautiful dandelions”
At least that was well said… considering that dandelions are considered an invasive species and a nuisance weed… not unlike BLM.
Leon,
“Well, the goat herders have no problem using their population as human shields.”
Come on, Leon. WTF? That’s not even a reply. If you truly believe the goat herders do so well simply because they use their innocent population as human shields, you are a participant in the failure.
Would you like to give a smarter-sounding explanation why the goat herders do so well but American citizens could not under similar circumstances? Or would you like to concede that maybe, just maybe, if the American government attacked a broad class of American citizens who were reasonably educated, well-armed, trained in diverse skills, knew the terrain, and had local support, it would not matter how many battleships or attack helicopters were thrown at the problem.
Well, if a broken clock is right twice a day, T-BONEHEAD is a clock that loses 2 minutes in 36 hours, meaning he is right about once every 135 days.
Yeah, Ed Orcutt is a politician who has reached a T-Bone level of stupidity. Bicyclists do not appreciably generate more CO2 than a couch potato, but do create far, FAR less pollution than a car.
The true cost of bicycling makes it the least expensive form of transportation, including walking:
http://truecostblog.com/2010/05/27/fuel-efficiency-modes-of-transportation-ranked-by-mpg/
So if CH really wants to help out those 10,000-year-old halabojis pushing pushcarts full of cardboard down the middle of the road, he should buy them a cargo bike. 😉
I don’t know, MTB.
Is it more efficient to put gas in a tractor that plows a field and dispenses petroleum-based fertilizer and uses more gas to harvest the crops and then needs a gassed-up truck to ship the food to a store which lights the food and refrigerates the food and supplies it to people who have to come and get it so they can eat it to power their bicycle to ride around telling everyone how energy efficient they are…
…or is it more efficient just to gas up the car and keep the bicycle-powered smugness to oneself?
I am only half joking.
It might be possible that, in a number of situations, the total CO2 footprint of the food required to move a person a given distance is more than the gas required to move a person a given distance.
When the folks who lead the Climate Change louts start acting like it’s a real emergency and stop taking private jets and 20+ vehicle motorcades around to their posh hotels and convention centers–and when they reduce their homes’ carbon footprint to something approaching that of a normal human family–I may start to believe that they believe their own spew.
Until then, “Peak Oil” and the rest of their stuffed goat sausage is a myth. http://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/05/18/saudi-oil-output-hits-high-water-mark/
Gloria Steinem will be joining ROKDrops favorite protester/agitator in a Woman’s Walk Across the DMZ.
Steinem is trying to present this as a variation of Ronald Reagan’s famous “Tear Down This Wall” speech, but somehow I don’t see that happening.
http://national.suntimes.com/world-news/7/72/1143377/gloria-steinem-north-korea-women-peace
Oh, and CH? It’s not smugness, it’s just an annoyance at people who are not just dumb, but proudly, arrogantly dumb. Ed Orcutt went well beyond the normal politician’s stupid comment to a T-Bone level of stupid comment. Why do you get to make T-Bone look as foolish as he is, but I can’t call out a politician for being a dumbazz?
Yeah, it takes a certian amount of gasoline to move food from the farm to the table, but you would have to have food sourced from a really long distance away, and ignore the economies of scale to make it cost more in moving the food to create a bigger CO2 footprint than the bicyclists would create. Delivering stuffed kiwi from New Zealand by private jet to a single customer is not the way most food is brought to market. Bringing a few thousand tons of pineapples across from the Philipines, several thousand frozen head of cattle from the U.S, and hundreds of crates of apples from Washington is more realistic.
Come on, CH. You can do better than toss out a vague “It might be possible that, in a number of situations, the total CO2 footprint of the food required to move a person a given distance is more than the gas required to move a person a given distance.” You’re smarter than that. There are virtually no circumstances where that equasion would work out, unless you are being deliberatly wasteful.
Well, MTB, you made me look it up.
As we aren’t the only ones curious about this, it has already been done with various degrees of complexity… and each level of complexity is unfavorable to bicycling.
Google my quotes if you need a source:
– “for every calorie of food that is produced in the United States, 10 calories of fossil fuel energy are put into the system to grow that food.”
…as I suspected. Modern food production relies HEAVLY on petroleum for fertilizers, pesticides, machinery, irrigation, crop drying, crop storage, etc.
…but then…
– “most of it does not come to our tables in its whole, natural form. Instead, the majority of this food is sent to a plant for processing into what Pollan likes to call “food-like substances” (at an additional energy cost)”
Discount this if you eat only non-processed, unpackaged food, I suppose… but make sure you don’t refrigerate or cook any of your food.
Get it locally-sourced from an unlighted, non-temperature controlled market which has employees that live in the store and has the farm out back.
You get the idea.
To supply a quantity of energy through food requires more than ten times the fossil fuel as simply supplying that quantity of energy through fossil fuel.
So. When supplying a quantity of energy, fossil fuel produces less than 10% of the CO2 as food.
(And don’t eat any meat which takes FIFTY times the fossil fuel to produce the same energy!)
That is the first half of the story. Things are not looking up for human-powered mechanization in the consumption efficiency category.
But the second half is a matter of conversion efficiency.
How efficient is a person at converting food to motion and how efficient is a bicycle at converting this motion to a change in position? How efficient is a car at converting fossil fuel (with 1/10th the overhead to begin with) to a change in position?
Looking at the link you provided, it indicates that a person’s MPG on a bicycle is 984 while a person’s MPG in a car is 35.7. Divide that 984 by (a conservative 10) and you get 98.4 MPG.
These numbers match up to several other sources which arrived at similar calculations of around +/- 100 MPG from various angles.
So, it seems bicycling uses a third of the fossil fuel of cars to go the same distance… though this assumes no calories from meat… and no cooking, no refrigeration, and that the energy percentage for sales and distribution are trivial… which they may not be.
However, Ed Orcutt did not really address the CO2 produced from the fuel used to grow the food to feed the bicyclist. He simply stated that a person riding a bicycle would be breathing harder and producing more CO2 than a person sitting in a car. That is a true statement… and since this CO2 comes from carbon in food that was produced from fossil fuel, it is carbon externally introduced into the carbon cycle and therefore is a “pollutant”, if you believe in global warming.
You are right. He is an idiot… but not exactly for the reasons the media is on his case over.
BUT…
There are a few things to note… using the numbers you linked… which seem to match many other sites:
– a car with 4 passengers uses less fossil fuel per person per distance than a bicycle
– a motorcycle with 2 people uses less fossil fuel than a bicycle with one person
– a plugin hybrid with the national average of 1.58 passengers also uses less fossil fuel than a bicycle… MUCH better with 4 passengers
Conclusion: Due to modern agriculture, human power is not as efficient as some established and emerging technologies that directly convert fossil fuel to motion. With more renewable energy for vehicles and more efficient technologies (from regenerative breaking to better batteries to lighter meta-materials), bicyclists will soon be considered polluters…
…and not just for their toxic spills of smugness.
You may challenge my facts or conclusions.
P.S… just to rub it in a bit.
“It might be possible that, in a number of situations, the total CO2 footprint of the food required to move a person a given distance is more than the gas required to move a person a given distance.”
– ChickenHead 2015
Right again, ChickenHead.
“There are virtually no circumstances where that equasion would work out, unless you are being deliberatly wasteful.”
– MTB Rider 2015
So sorry, try again.
I think for the biker gang shootout I think it is better to blame incompetency than conspiracy. I can easily imagine a couple of bikers getting in a fight and the plains clothes police outside trying to break it up by drawing their weapons. The bikers may not have known they were police and drew their weapons in response. From there the police start shooting. Or maybe one of the plains clothes police was trying to break up the fight and ended up getting beaten and the other police start shooting to stop the beating.
It seems that there is plenty of scenarios of incompetency to explain what happened instead of a conspiracy.
You do realize everyone has to eat, right CH?
I’m not sure where you are going with that, and it seems like you are being a bit disingenous in your transportation equations. The people riding in the car are consuming the same food calories (well, a bit less, to be honest) as the cyclist, so your reduction of the cyclist to only 90 mpg, and that 4 people riding in a car, or two people riding on a motorcycle consuming the same amount of food/fuel per person as a single bicyclist leaves out the food/fuel consumed by the other six motor transported people. Unless they are eating locally sourced, non-refrigerated, farmed out back, and consumed non-cooked.
So, no. Your equation is deliberately wasteful, or you missed the part that whatever you do to one side of the equation, you have to do to the other side. I eat, you eat, they eat. We all eat, or we die.
True, modern food production is very petrochemical intensive, but that is spread out across all food consumers. I don’t have any suggestion on reducing the fuel consumed to create food, and I do know dirt farming and praying for rain won’t feed over 7 billion people.
Even a well tuned engine produces far more CO2 than even the fattest, most out of shape, gasping all the way rider. Even with the new batteries, or meta-materials, or power generation sources. It will be quite some time before cyclists produce the majority of CO2, and have to go from Carbon Credit producers to Carbon Credit consumers.
MTB… come on. Stop and think.
The guy moving himself and his bicycle requires energy to do this. Unless he can magic himself around the laws of thermodynamics, he will need to consume energy above his normal requirements.
This energy comes from the extra food he eats… which the guy sitting in the car does not.
So, yes, I do “realize that everyone has to eat”… but I also realize they do not eat the same amount. This difference is based on the energy they expend.
The link you provided clearly stated how much energy was required for each mode of transportation per person per distance. This was converted into miles per gallon of gasoline… and further modified based on how many people could use the vehicle. For the bicyclist, and all other categories, this was only the actual energy required to move himself and his bicycle from one place to another with no relationship to his daily metabolic needs. Introducing that into the conversation is a rhetorical diversion but has no bearing on the statistics given in the link you provided.
If people could directly metabolize gasoline, the bicyclist would be a clear winner. But this is not the case. People need food… and food requires a great deal of gasoline to produce. At the very least, food requires 10 times its energy in petroleum use.
You provided the link. The numbers are very clear. I did not make this up. In the future, before providing a link that disproves your point, perhaps it is best to take a closer look at it.
“Even a well tuned engine produces far more CO2 than even the fattest, most out of shape, gasping all the way rider.”
Absolutely… but to feed that fat, out of shape rider… or even a trim one… so they have the extra energy necessary to lollygag down the road inhibiting traffic, it requires a large number of engines… from tractors to trucks… and a great deal of engine-like equipment from gas turbines to reflux distillers.
Once again… even the tree-huggers accept (or, perhaps, promote) that it takes ten times the energy to make food than to simply supply the energy… FIFTY(ish) times for meat.
So… once again… as per YOUR link (and several others I found), not including transportation and storage, simply growing the food to power a couple bicyclist over a given distance requires more petroleum than a couple guys driving a hybrid the same distance.
It is presented so clearly, I fail to see where any argument can be on this.
Marco Rubio says…”A president cannot make a decision knowing what someone might know in the future.”
Who says…besides Marco Rubio? He sounds like he’s been the president before but he hasn’t so he doesn’t know what the president can and cannot do unless there is a constitutional amendment that says…”A president cannot make a decision knowing what someone might know in the future…”
…which there isn’t so this Marco dummkopf Rubio is simply spewing garbage in the wind sounding much like GOP’ers and EGGHEAD…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04
I can make a decision knowing what someone might know in the future.
My decision is to say, “Ewwwwwww”.
In the future, Tbone will know how much he enjoys huffing solvent while a big harry dude pounds him in the rear.
Can I haz prezidenzy?
GOP Crazy after President Obama does good…Record highs for Dow and S&P
Hateful GOP’ers bemoan democrats for being wealthy
Rand Paul: If you want another Iraq war, you know who to vote for
Gates: Not seeing a lot of courage by GOP field of wannabe presidents
Harvard Prof Says Rick Santorum Misuses His Book To Say ‘All Black Men Are Sexual Predators’
Anne Graham Lotz: “ I will see the day of the return of Jesus.”
People with high metabolisms are CO2 polluters!
La vita grassa rulz!
Bikers are just piss drinking sissies.
(wait…that last was poorly timed, wasn’t it?)
😛
Ugh…that emotion! I forgot.
If the so-called “environmentalists” believed their own spew, they wouldn’t use so much fossil fuel in their clothing, private jets, and non-locally-grown gourmet meals…
I assume my carbon footprint is less than that of the President’s dog.
BTW, if you need something to keep you from peaceful sleep, this might do: http://www.amazon.com/Banality-Evil-Hannah-Arendt-Solution/dp/0847692108/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1432144274&sr=8-2&keywords=the+banality+of+evil
It’s not the psychopaths that kill millions. It’s “normal”, seemingly well-adjusted folks who just go along with evil plans, evil actions…
When The Gang-bangers Are White Guys
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/05/19/when-the-gang-bangers-are-white-guys
49 people shot in Chicago over weekend
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-violence-20150517-story.html
“When The Gang-bangers Are White Guys”
The media sure is trying hard. I suppose someone is buying it.
“Black thugs” can now be responded to with “but… but… but white bikers” in the minds of some.
Let’s take a tiny peek at just a part of the myth that is trying to be created…
“leaving nine bikers dead, 18 people injured, and 170 suspects in police custody. Over 100 weapons have been confiscated.”
Nine bikers are dead… but it is unclear how many were killed by other bikers and how many were killed by cops. Of the nine, early rumors in the Texas law enforcement community said four were killed by cops. Now, the rumor is that ALL were killed by cops and that there was no two-way gunfight between cops and bikers. These are just rumors… but they make more sense than the official story that bikers opened fire on cops. There are too many witnesses for much of the real story not to come out… if the media cares to report it. So far, they have been simply repeating the evolving tale being spun by law enforcement.
It seems pretty clear that cops, with rifles and behind cover, fired on bikers in the open armed with handguns at best. If, in fact, the bikers were brandishing firearms, the actions of law enforcement were likely correct…
…but it is not so clear that the bikers were a threat to the cops.
“170 suspects in police custody. Over 100 weapons have been confiscated.”
The first thing that should be noted is that if it was only one weapon per customer, only 60% of the bikers had weapons.
And, again, it must be pointed out that law enforcement and media keep screaming “WEAPONS!” but not even whispering “firearms”. They seem to be avoiding an uncomfortable truth that this big White Gangbanger Biker Threat to the Public had an embarrassing lack of banging capability in their gang.
And, again, what law enforcement considers “weapons” might not be what a normal person would consider a weapon. A picture I saw of “weapons” included a 3 inch knife and a wallet with a short chain… not exactly a length of of anchor chain being swung around like the images the media has been conjuring.
Cops LOVE to pile contraband on a table for a media event… but there has been a conspicuous lack of this… no table covered in firearms and baseball bats with nails in them. Somehow, one could suspect the decision was made to talk about “100 WEAPONS!” instead of showing a table covered in pocket knives, multi-tools, and screwdrivers.
As of a few hours ago, there was a claim that 1000 weapons had been recovered. That was lowered to 318. These new weapons were found in a search of the restaurant where they had been dumped. That makes sense… better to lose your weapon than have it found on you when the round-up starts. It will be interesting to see if we get our table covered in weapons… or not. It is very odd policework to wait this long to search the restaurant.
One other thing to note… a large percentage of 170 people were arrested due to their appearance and/or associations rather than because they were seen engaging in any criminal behavior. When blanket arrests involve blacks in matching hoodies or gang attire at the scene of a crime their buddy commits, this is condemned as racism… yet the media is congratulatory in this situation. This double standard is something to be aware of.
Soooo… there is little to do but wait and assemble the little parts of the real story that will slowly trickle out as law enforcement and media gently allow their narrative to converge with reality on their terms.
Q: What’s the difference between a Hoover and a Harley?
A: Law enforcement doesn’t mass-arrest Hoover owners for unclear connections to unclear crimes and then publicly salivate over how they expect to bring in over one million dollars “to aid in fighting crime” by auctioning off confiscated vacuum cleaners.
That’s what I have been trying to explain to you all along. I had forgotten the term “banality of evil” and couldn’t remember it. We are making progress!
Speaking of which:
Republicans Call For Christianity As ‘Official Religion’ of US
May 21, 2015 by Michael Stone
Theocracy Alert: Conservative Christian Republicans committed to the false notion that the U.S. is a nation founded by and for Christians are quietly working behind the scenes to establish Christianity as the official religion of the U.S.A.
Right Wing Watch reports the Republican National Committee continues to partner with the American Renewal Project, which is run by Christian Nationalist and anti-gay extremist David Lane and is affiliated with the powerful and influential far-right American Family Association.
In an email alert sent to American Renewal Project supporters earlier this week, Lane reiterated the call to establish Christianity as the official religion of America:
The American church has lost its commission in the public square, its purpose for being. Ultimately, unless we find the chart and compass used by Colonial America to establish Christianity as the official religion of America, America will no longer be.
In the email alert, Lane uses a great deal of false and misleading information to argue that the U.S. is a Christian nation and that Christianity should be adopted as the “official religion of America.”
In the alert, Lane rails against secularism and secularists, apparently unaware or unwilling to admit that the U.S. is a nation founded upon secular values.
However, Lane’s inaccurate and misleading remarks are not surprising, given his sordid history. Lane is notorious for making offensive, misleading, and historically inaccurate statements. For example:
“The separation of church and state is a “lie” and a “fabricated whopper” used to stop “Christian America – the moral majority – from imposing moral government on pagan public schools, pagan higher learning and pagan media.” [6/6/13]
“We were established as a Christian nation, for the advancement of the Christian faith.” [1/30/15]
“Vote to restore the Bible and prayer in public schools or be sent home. Hanging political scalps on the wall is the only love language politicians can hear.” [7/17/13]
“While America was a Christian nation since its founding, now it must choose between being a Christian nation or a pagan nation.” [7/17/13]
The problem is that David Lane is an influential man within the Republican party, a man who enjoys a great deal of support from many GOP officials. Earlier this year, members of the Republican National Committee went on an all-expense paid trip to Israel, a trip that was organized by Lane and financed by the American Family Association.
As Right Wing Watch notes, Republicans who attend Lane’s candidate forums, invite him to conduct training, or join him on all-expenses-paid trips to Israel, can’t really claim ignorance of his agenda, which is crystal clear:
Lane, with the financial and political support of many other conservative Christian Republicans, is quietly working behind the scenes to establish Christianity as the official religion of the U.S.A.
And amid all this evil, there is still g\feel good, good news. Enjoy your weekend!
Karma has come back to a Sikh man who broke religious protocol to help a little boy at an accident scene in Auckland last week.
Harman Singh made international headlines when he took off his turban to cradle the head of Daejon Pahia, 6, who had been hit by a car.
Mr Singh, from India, is in Auckland studying a business course. He said he was overwhelmed with all the praise and didn’t think twice about helping the little boy.
When Seven Sharp went to meet Mr Singh and congratulate him on his heroic deed, many viewers commented on his lack of furniture.
Simone from Tauranga emailed the programme, saying “it upsets us all to see such a lovely kind man living in such an empty home”.
Mr Singh’s flatmate Ravi and Lily from Big Save Furniture came on board to help fill Mr Singh’s house.
When a van pulled up outside Mr Singh’s house, he was speechless.
“We got you some furniture!” His flatmate yelled.
“A lounge suite, a bed and a coffee table, for all the good that you’ve done.”
Mr Singh emotionally accepted the gifts.
“Thank you, thanks a lot. I’m very happy.
“Is this… it’s the biggest surprise of my life.”
Turbans become a part of a Sikh’s body and are usually removed only in the privacy of their own house. Normally it is only in the most intimate of circumstances, when bathing the head, or washing the hair.
EGGHEAD GOP states busted for pills/pilluted…
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/drug-enforcement-administration-raids-pill-mills-four-southern-states-n361956
“The morning busts in Arkansas, Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi are part of a 15-month operation by the DEA drug diversion unit. The sources said 1,000 agents and officers conducted the raids.
A federal law enforcement source told NBC News that “Operation Pilluted” is the “single largest pharmaceutical operation in DEA history.” It is focused on the illegal sale and distribution of pain killers, including oxycodone and hydrocodone.”
DEA Crackdown on Prescription Drugs in Four Southern States
GOP’er states are HIGH on Prescription DRUGS….just like EGGHEAD!!!
http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/05/20/dea-wrapping-up-4-state-prescription-southern-drug-crackdown
“DEA data show Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana were among the top 11 states for prescribing hydrocodone in 2014.”
“DEA data show Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana were among the top 11 states for prescribing hydrocodone in 2014.”
That’s a good quote… but I do not think it means what you think it means.
When you bust 4 states and then say they were in the top 11, it means one was number 11… not exactly America’s Most Wanted.
Let’s look at the top 4 states for prescribing hydrocodone in 2014 rather than the top 11.
Number 1… (drum roll)… California… with a bonus that the government paid for so much of it… 60,000,000 tax dollars to supply the poors and illegals with happy pills in 2014. That’s more than three times the rate of all other states (except #2). 100% SOLID DEMOCRAT for every major office
Number 2… Texas.. was Democrat until the mid 90s… expected to return to democrat due to rapidly expanding Hispanic population. But they love their pills right now. 100% SOLID REPUBLICAN
Number 3… Florida… MIXED, SLIGHTLY IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRAT
Number 4… Michigan… MIXED, SLIGHTLY IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRAT
I am not convinced political party affiliation is the cause. Want to make a better case that Republicans are sittng around thinking of ways to push pills?
…well, other than lobbying from Big Pharmacy.
By the way, President Obama was quoted in the Atlantic as saying ISIS is not winning in Iraq, so it’s all OK.
Just like that survey of people most likely to overthrow the Constitution for their religion.
Leon, you’re apparently smoking the same stuff as tbone.
This is easy to resolve Setnaffa. Would you mind sharing with us which congressional district you vote in? I do not want to be presumptuous but I assume you normally vote republican. Who are your favorite presidential candidates right now?
Ret. Col. Lawrence Wilkerson (Chief of Staff to former Sec. of State Colin Powell) says, “Military officers who wear their religion on their sleeve are a danger to our country …”
When the Bush presidency empowered the Jesus freaks in Osan leadership to look for ways to push their (fake) morality on low-level GIs just trying to get by, all it did was increase the number of rapes.
Way to go, Jesus.
70. Speaking of rapes. “TLC” just cancelled the Duggars. As an atheist, and without fear of divine retrubution or reward, I have molested exactly how many underage girls I wanted to, 0. I guess the Buy-Bull isn’t the sole source of morals.
Another blow for “traditional America” – LOL
Leon,
I’m curious to know more about the circumstances of his transgressions. He was apparently 15 at the time. I wonder how old the girl or girls were. The keyword that stuck out to me was “forcible.”
I am wondering if he was ever formally charged and tried for anything. I’m not defending him at all because I don’t know the circumstances. Wouldn’t doubt he touched kids because nothing surprises me anymore. Just curious to know the full story in an age when the media is ready to bash anything right wing, conservative, Christian, or law enforcement before the facts are out.
“I have molested exactly how many underage girls I wanted to, 0”
So how many have you molested and why did you address that comment to Tbone, Leon?
The Duggars and the Duck f@ckers are held up as the epitome of Christianhood and I would have to agree that they are exactly that. They are horrible human beings.
Johnnyboy: Here’s the actual police report so you need not worry about any media filtering or bias.
http://imgur.com/a/zqPMi#11
Wow.
So he was probably touching his sisters and a friend who was spending the night at the family home?
I gotta say though, if you have 19 kids the chances that at least one of them is going to be a sicko are probably pretty high.
Leon, why are you stirring up trouble by repeating media lies about “underage” girls.
In 1917, Canon Law set the age of marriage for girls at 14 (up from 12)… so maybe they were not “underage”… and if they were younger than 14, then maybe he just hadn’t gotten the updated information… a mistake based on ignorance and poor communication within the church rather than some sort of evil intent.
And if they were younger than 12, perhaps it is because Josh has an undiagnosed learning disability and it was a simple math mistake. You are awfully quick to assign blame to a potentially disabled boy without knowing all the facts.
Josh was around 14 when these events happened… and, as Canon Law sets the age of marriage for boys at 16, he was certainly underage. This really makes him a victim more than a perpetrator. As a footsoldier in the War on Men, especially the War on Christian Men, you ignore this possibility.
It is sad to see the media attack an innocent Christian family over a little bit of stereotypical incestuous behavior.
I gotta say though, if you have 19 kids it’s probably too many to dedicate enough individual parenting time to, thereby almost guaranteeing the chances at least one of them is going to be a sicko are probably pretty high.
You see the Duggars are part of the Quiverfull movement. I’ll let you look it up yourself but as you may already guess it is another throwback and insulting to the dignity of the human race.
Kentucky’s two senators go to battle over NSA bulk collection and the future of the Patriot Act. The libertarian senator is on top so far.
/Defense of the 4th Amendment deserves as much public concern as the 1st and 2nd Amendments.
The problem is the First Amendment is not protecting the Fourth Amendment.
Perhaps a properly applied Second Amendment would do a better job.
I fail to understand why people advocate gunmen running around the streets, turning our country into a Somalia like hell when we still have the power to vote. Stop voting against your best interests. Just because people are giving candidates billions of dollars does not mean they are the best candidate to represent the people – probably quite the contrary. Whoever professes to be most pious and religious probably isn’t – probably quite the contrary. We shouldn’t be voting for people based on religion anyway. We should be voting for those who can responsibly govern and put citizens first.
“We should be voting for those who can responsibly govern and put citizens first.”
That behavior won’t even get your name on the ballot.
Big Business, Big Defense, Big Media, Wall Street, the One Percenters, and even competitive government agencies insure only candidates they can live with even make it to the ballot.
Average people don’t want to vote against their best interests. They simply vote for the candidate least against their best interests… or, for the dumbed-down crowd, they vote for whoever will offer the short-term bribe or preach the most emotional triggers.
…yet in the end, they still get nearly the same result.
Gunmen turning America into a Somalia-like hell is not the same as very targeted action against very specific individuals who have the intent to enrich/empower themselves through the slow destruction of America or the (somewhat hyperbolic) enslavement of its citizens.
Everyone should hesitate to advocate this outright… as it could well lead to unintended consequences that are worse than the current situation… as those who rise to power in such a movement would find it hard to let it go once the mission was accomplished… though, perhaps, a very decentralized movement of motivated self-starters, such as Anonymous does with hacking, could solve the problem and then evaporate when the government once again serves the collection of citizens that form a nation.
Consider your feeling about this…
If you had your assets, everything you worked hard for in your entire life, seized over some manufactured nonsense completely unrelated to a crime… and everyone involved knew there was no crime… how would you feel about targeted violence toward those who knowingly, perhaps gleefully, robbed you to increase their own power and prestige?
Would you consider this justice or would you just start over, condemn the violence, and simply write your congressman and threaten to withhold your vote on the next election? Would you consider targeted violence a reasonable option to stop a highly-unjust, highly-unbalanced, self-perpetuating predatory system that seemingly cannot be stopped at the voting booth or through the courts?
How would you feel about this same violence against these same individuals even if the victim was an innocent fellow American stranger.
Again, it is hard to advocate this type of action completely outside the structure of the law… but as the “structure” of the law becomes distorted and predatory, and sometimes selectively ignored by those in power, and selectively enforced against those with power, it seems there is a point where the best option of reasonable citizens is re-level the balance of power through whatever tools they have.
When the ballot box is no longer a tool for change, as it is now, there are few other options.
This is just something to consider as we observe where America goes in the next few decades.
“Would you consider targeted violence a reasonable option to stop a highly-unjust, highly-unbalanced, self-perpetuating predatory system that seemingly cannot be stopped at the voting booth or through the courts?”
Depends on if I felt strongly enough to die for it. Because that would be the end result, no matter how many mags, bullets, and AR-15’s I had in my arsenal.
“Depends on if I felt strongly enough to die for it. Because that would be the end result, no matter how many mags, bullets, and AR-15’s I had in my arsenal.”
So the only tactic you can come up with for targeted violence is charging in with an AR-15 in each hand.
Okeydokey then.
I’m sure there will be a place for you when the Revolution starts… just not in operations.
Google these names to understand what is possible if there is motivation.
Thomas C. Wales
Officer Jason Ellis
Ray Gricar
This is just a cross section of possible methods from a larger pool of examples.
I again ask…
If you were unjustly victimized by a system designed to victimize you, would you feel comfortable using stealthy violence against those who victimized you? Especially if you could get by with it?
With the tinfoil hat off, one could guess the push for a complete surveillance state is to protect against “terrorists”… just not the ones that are being marketed.
Maybe this is some of that stealthy violence against those who victimize others?
New Orleans Cop Shot Dead in Cruiser – http://abcnews.go.com/US/orleans-cop-shot-dead-cruiser/story?id=31276815
Possibly, Leon. Who knows if it against the individual or the group?
There are tens of fatal police ambushes each year… and more non-fatal ones. It is hard to know how many are targeted, opportunistic, or desperate. It is also hard to know how many are solved and unsolved. And it is hard to know how many were done for what an average person would consider just reasons.
Those events are seemingly concealed… e.g. I know, close second-hand, of a particularly shytty IRS agent who was almost killed but didn’t make the news at the time… and I can find no reference to it on the internet (though I cannot remember his name). Even other IRS workers thought he had it coming. Nobody was ever caught for this.
Ken McElroy is a good example of people taking initiative when the law fails.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_McElroy
I bring all this up because, for too many, the Law has not only failed but has become part of the problem… protecting criminals, from Wall Street to Looters of Color. It is being used as a tool by Big Business, Big Defense, Big Media, Wall Street, the One Percenters to raape the middle class and buy off the bottom class to stay at the bottom.
Observations of government and One Percent behavior indicate that an angry population with diminishing hope and opportunity, forced into a reduced lifestyle from what they expected while the elite flaunt their wealth and power, is increasingly viewed as an existential threat.
Now, Leon, you have avoided the question twice.
If you were unjustly victimized and had no recourse in a system designed to deny justice, would you resort to violence against those responsible if you could get by with it? Start your answer with “yes” or “no”, Leon.
A first-hand account on the fall of Ramadi from a senior Kurdish commander who was there.
Keep in mind that we spent many billions of dollars training and equipping those “soldiers” over the past 10 years.
CH, You know it would be unwise to answer that in a public forum and you know why. 😉
Exactly, Leon…
But the real question was, “Is there a silent majority of normal, productive citizens who generally support the System until the system fails them completely and they start looking for other ways to resolve their issues?”
The System is (probably) a long way off from fully failing people at your level…
…but there is a growing class of willingly productive people who are above the professional dependent who are being imcreasingly failed by the System.
Regardless of who they vote for, their semi-skilled job will be replaced by a foreign worker. The financial system will prey upon them through high interest on loans they fall into and fees for bank interactions the System requires them to have. Any retirement they may hope for will be inflated away through government waste. They will be nickle and dimed to death with little fees, taxes, traffic tickets, and court costs. Any chance of them helping themselves will be blocked with regulations, inspections, licenses, permissions, and the need for excessive capital to start a business.
These people have higher expectations than the chronic poor. If voting for copies of the same candidate or demonstrating in limited Free Speech Zones with politicians trying to hijack the message, police trying to discredit by inciting violence, and the media misreporting the real situation and focusing on the rantings of an extremist minority, can’t change the System and bend it to do its job of taking care of productive citizens and giving them the structure to be productive, then they will start looking for ways to change the System to serve them.
They will become what the government and media are now laying the groundwork to paint as “domestic terrorists” or “right wing extremists”… turning to blame-assigning racism, the empty promises of extreme Christianity, the false hope of survivalism, the downward spiral of crime, the escapism of drugs, etc..
Perhaps a few will turn to communism or socialiism, pushing the government to care for them… and pushing them into the ranks of the chronic dependent poor if they get their wish.
But a percentage of this population may try to determine who is responsible for their misfortune… and attempt to solve the problem…
…targeting cops handing out revenue-inspired tickets to people just trying to get to work on time… the border patrol guy looking for assets to confiscate rather than job-stealing illegals to arrest… the judge who hands out one dollar fines for the misdeeds of Big Business… the politicians who promise jobs and opportunity but support corporate welfare-financed subsistance jobs and more regulation over anybody trying to create their own opportunity… the tax agents who confiscate assets over tax bills it would be illegal for any other organization to inflate at the same rate… the CEOs who keep cutting jobs and benefits while increasing their own pay as they hop from one company to the next and drive them all into the ground… etc. etc. etc.
America is a target-rich environment for some extra-judicial justice… that even average, non-violent Americans might not strongly condemn… and might actually support… and it just takes a few intelligent, thoughtful, and motivated people to formulate a clear message and get the ball rolling for the copycats to follow.
Side note: studying how the jihadists operate and then replacing Islam with anything from patriotism to doomsday Christianity tailored to American sensibilities would be a very workable place to start.
Right now, this isn’t going to happen. While the vast majority of the population has been disenfranchised, the effects have not fully trickled down… and the bottom level has been bought off with welfare and misdirected with propaganda.
But, as the effects trickle down… and a higher and higher level of person is replaced with low-paid foreigners and robots… and they see their elected officials making empty promises to the masses while working for those at the top, there may come a time when the Quiet Revolution gradually starts and elements of the People attempt to push American leadership to make sure the institution of America can benefit the majority of Americans.
Based on training, purchases, and infrastructure, it would seem the government is preparing for this possibility (probability? inevitably?).
It would be prudent to be aware of it and plan accordingly.
Jail for GOP Woman Who Ran Over Husband For Not Voting Against Obama.
Pastor’s Wife Says Josh Duggar Was Just ‘Playing Doctor’ And Blames Victims.
Josh Duggar Made Incest Joke on TV(video).
Pastor shot outside church for planting Memorial Day flags.
‘America’s Toughest Sheriff’ Wants You to Pay His Legal Fees.
Young Earth Creationist Defends Duggar and Blames Evolutionists.
Arkansas Lawmaker Wants Police Chief Who Released Duggar Police Report Fired.
tbone sure knows a lot about Jerry Springer kinda news…
I blame bush.
Interesting how some folks can adapt their deeply held beliefs….
Jim Bob Duggar had a very different view of incest when he ran the the U.S. Senate in 2002. The God that it is claimed has forgiven son Josh was nowhere in sight when he advocated for the death penalty for incest.
Jim Bob’s platform on his campaign website—preserved via web cache—states that he believes “rape and incest represent heinous crimes and as such should be treated as capital crimes.”
http://web.archive.org/web/20030210014933/http://www.jimbob.info/position.html
” Jerry Springer kinda news”
This is news that originates from your Religulous kind you dummy and it’s covered around the world(O_O).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3095565/Outrage-pastor-s-wife-mother-11-suggests-child-molester-Josh-Duggar-simply-PLAYING-DOCTOR-teenager-left-live-good-life.html
And look here…GI Korea’s favorite WAPO covered this “Jerry Springer news”…
‘Arkansas Lawmaker Wants Police Chief Who Released Duggar Police Report Fired’
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/26/bart-hester-arkansas-lawmaker-wants-police-chief-f/
Shall I go on Jerry Springer on your LOVER mind you big setnaffa dork?
tbone, what’s up with all the anger? I suggest you stick to one topic you are sincere about per open thread and actually put some thought and effort into your posts rather than walls of copy-pasta where the only portion you insert are the insults. Perhaps you could engage ChickenHead and Setnaffa with meaningful point-counterpoint discussions. Rather than trying to make a convincing argument, you come across as only trolling. Not that trolling is always a bad thing, it can serve a purpose to make a point, but try to be more creative.
“I suggest you stick to one topic you are sincere about per open thread…”
I suggest you do that on “Open Threads,” got it? What other rules would you like to make?
“Perhaps you could engage ChickenHead and Setnaffa”
Perhaps you could let them disengage inside you!
Hey Leon, disengaging inside you sounds like it might be worth trying… as long as Setnaffa goes last.
Up next, I may try to ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long.
Sometimes Tbone says thing that really make a lot of sense upon consideration.
He is really more of a philosopher or profit than a simple commenter.
Another link for you, Leon…
It seem the crowd didn’t believe a cop should be hassling citizens over drinking in public.
http://m.wesh.com/news/police-crowd-attacked-officer-during-arrest/33206602
No AR-15s were used in this act of social disobedience.
tbone doesn’t know the difference between making a rule and offering a suggestion. How can I take him seriously?
Loretta Lynch you go girl
‘Top International Soccer Officials Arrested in Switzerland at United States’ Behest’
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/27/fifa_arrests_extradition_loretta_lynch_ran_brooklyn_based_department_of.html
“suggestion”
Leon, how can I take such a stupid suggestion seriously? It goes against “OPEN THREAD” you typical GOP’er!
DPRK Women Making More Money Than Men In Government Through Gray Market
Even in N. Korea men are lazy.
http://www.ibtimes.com/north-korean-women-making-more-money-men-government-through-gray-market-1937939
“According to a study published by South Korea’s government-run Korea Institute for National Unification, women are responsible for more than 70 percent of household income in the insular country. In North Korea’s male-dominated society, women are reportedly able to find jobs as traders at unofficial markets, which have began to grow in recent years.”
I’m just not certain why tbone continues with the cisgender rants?
I wonder if he confused Stokely Carmichael’s experiences with physical violence over Civil Rights protests in Alabama before he was born (which caused him to help found the Black Panthers) and getting teased on the internet?
I wonder if he can ever channel all that anger into something that helps the people he feels are being oppressed (as opposed to merely reacting and spreading ill-will)?
And frankly, I’m not certain which groups he feels are being oppressed, other than himself.
Setnaffa,
When the Revolution starts, it will start with guys like Tbone.
…guys that feel they deserve more in life because they have an “education” but no job… or opportunity… or hope. Some of these guys, like Tbone, bring it upon themselves to a large extent. Some will be victims of the System.
Some of them will gravitate to liberal activism… channeling their anger and disappointment into serving “just causes”. They will surround themselves with those of like mind and situation… and the meetings and demonstrations and self-reinforcing serious conversations will appease their demons for a time… a long time for most of them. The government, as always, will control the leadership… bribing them with credibility-enhancing attention… which allows them to consolidate power and money within their group. There will be hopeful speeches from all sides, the creation of fancy-sounding programs, and some carefully-calculated benefits to bribe the masses to remain at the anger point where government sociologists studying the group dynamics say they will remain stable and dependent.
A few will resort to leftist violence against the Man… as has happened before throughout American history… shooting a few cops, blowing up a few buildings (or themselves through incompetence), dorking around with other half-baked ideas at turning America into a communist paradise where the capitalists, industrialists, bankers, politicians, jack-booted police, et. al., will be punished and abolished… which doesn’t sound like a bad plan in the beginning, as all of these groups have certainly abused their position, power, and authority… which is probably how all the failed leftist regimes in history have rightfully started… forgetting that you NEED capitalists, industrialists, bankers, politicians, and police, in a functioning society… just not fake ones that have become members of a plutocracy.
While they can cause irritation, hardcore American liberals generally lack the skillsets, mindsets, and ratonal thinking skills necessary for really effective paramilitary operations against the Man. Being hardcore liberal is the first clue that they are lacking something.
Right wingers will turn to right wing causes… racism, nationalism, sentimental patriotism, libertarianism… and with a much higher percentage of gun users and combat-tested veterans, there may be a number that accomplish many of the violent goals the left-wingers wish to do… and for similar reasons.
There could be interesting times ahead. There certainly are a number of global and national political, social, and financial issues that don’t seem to have easy resolutions through traditional means.
Historically, the drums of war start beating in times like these. They are beating softly now.