Korean Court Acquits KATUSA of Raping US Soldier
This is just another example of why these sexual assault cases are so hard to litigate and not as cut and dry as the activists and politicians want people to believe:
The Seoul High Court upheld Tuesday a lower court ruling that acquitted a former Korean soldier of raping a female American soldier, saying sexual relations between the two did not involve a physical attack or threats.
The Korean soldier, 22, whose name was withheld, was serving as a sergeant in the Korean Augmentation Troops to the United States Army (KATUSA) in Dongducheon, Gyeonggi Province, when he allegedly raped the U.S. soldier, 19, in December.
He was in charge of educating American soldiers new to Korea, and he and his accuser began seeing each other frequently and engaged in sexual relations from last October. However, on one occasion, while kissing at his barracks, the man told her he wanted to have sex and she refused. He then said he would not let her leave the room, and forcibly had sex with her anyway.
During sex, he asked her if it was rape, and as she said yes, he then stopped, and knelt down to apologize. She accepted his apology but later reported it as rape to the military police.
Even though the assailant partially admitted it was rape during the investigation, the lower and high courts did not recognize it as such.
“Although sexual intercourse occurred against the woman’s will, she said there was no physical attack, swearing or anything threatening,” the high court said. “She did not call for help or resist, but rather she undressed on her own volition,” it added. [Korea Times]
Should this be considered rape even though there was no physical attack and she did not resist in any way? The Korean courts don’t think so, I wonder what a US court would have ruled on this? I also wonder why the ROK Army did not try this case and instead gave it to a ROK civilian court?
The ratio of horny male GIs to female troops in 2ID must be something like 10 to 1. In spite of that, a KATUSA managed to horn in on the action? My oh my … things sure have changed since my days as a young troop in 2ID.
“Should this be considered rape”
Welll…..
1. “he wanted to have sex and she refused”
2. “He then said he would not let her leave the room”
3. “forcibly had sex with her anyway”
4. “asked her if it was rape, and as she said yes”
5. “admitted it was rape during the investigation”
6. “intercourse occurred against the woman’s will”
GI should be raped for even asking that. Unless this is Bizarro Day, is it Bizarro Day? If it is then no it’s not rape at all. The RoK should be demoted to a 3rd world nation for having a system like this.
“he and his accuser began seeing each other frequently and engaged in sexual relations from last October.”
So there wasn’t any ice to break here. They had been doin’ it, they hadn’t broken it off, and they were still seeing each other as fukkbuddies.
“However, on one occasion, while kissing at his barracks, the man told her he wanted to have sex and she refused.”
So on this “one occasion”, she was fine to get all kissy and fire him up… but for whatever catty-azz reason wasn’t in the mood when it came time to seal the deal.
That is her right… but how many times have girls said no, no, no… while they are practically undressing themselves… especially Asian girls trying to maintain an image of purity.
“She did not call for help or resist, but rather she undressed on her own volition,”
And that is why it was not clearly rape.
A simple checklist of out-of-context “facts” does not make this a clear case.
You are OOYFM. ❓
Smokes… have you actually ever been with a live woman?
Since high school I have heard NO…
…but salesmanship starts when the customer says no.
I have been in exactly that position… where I made it socially/mentally (not physically) uncomfortable for the girl to get up and leave while I continued to make my pitch… making both mental (complements on whatever non-physical traits she is most insecure about) and physical (caress and massage with attempted sly clothing removal) trial closes… finally selling her on the idea… or, at least, wearing her down to the point she is willing to give in to a quick fuuck just to go home without seeming like a biitch…
…and this is with girls I never did anything with. It is unthinkable to not get further action from a girl who I had been with many times who is currently kissing on a bed.
Not too many (hot and sober) girls have thrown themselves at me… so, to turn those first nos into yeses, I had to work mentally hard to get with the quality of girl I like. I suspect most guys have.
If guys took that first no as the final answer without a little mental/conversational work (which most girls consider part of foreplay), the world would depopulate.
Of course this is all before it was fashionable to self-excuse every bad decision or arbitrary change of mind with attention-getting cries of raaaaaaape.
In the end… if she really, truly, honestly felt she was being raaped (by a guy who she had an on-going sexual relationship with and was currently kissing on a bed with), perhaps the correct course of action was to walk out… or fight and scream… instead of taking off her clothes and grumpily fuucking him.
In this case, “raape” was actually “not really in the mood but I allowed myself to be pressured (entirety mentally) into it and claiming raape was the only way to get it to stop because he is a nice guy… which would be the end… but I told my friends what happened and they clutched their pearls and bragged about all the times they were “raaped” and then pressured me into going to the cops”.
No man should have his life ruined by this nonsense. And women should take responsibility for their actions. No matter how you slice it, responsible management of attempted “raape” is not silently taking off your clothes and fuucking when faced with nonviolence and a situation where the door is open and plenty of people can hear your cries for help.
And the Korean court agrees.
If you disagree and still think I am OOMFM, I would certainly entertain a point-by-point takedown of my ideas.
“A simple checklist of out-of-context “facts””
Or as I like to call it, a chronological timeline (redundant? meh…) of what happened as per both parties reported by the news.
” I would certainly entertain a point-by-point takedown of my ideas”
Or I’ll just cut to the chase and point out your personal anecdote is irrelevant and generalizes social interaction from what appears to be a rapist POV. TF dude? I really hope this is some shtick because otherwise you would appear to have some issues.
By the way, you’re using a Korean court ruling to back your point? Seriously? I’d post the links to instances of how retarded that is from this site alone if I didn’t know this post would instantly be spam-binned for the 50 links.
Smokes, I used to cry during sex and that really bugged me for a long time.
Turns out, it was the same knife I used to cut onions.
Moving on to this case…
If you want to generalize and divert, that is fine, I guess.
…but kindly answer this…
If she felt she was about to be raaped… a horrible soul-crushing event… why was her response not to walk out… which she appeared to have the option to do? Why did she not fight even a tiny bit? Or scream and alert all the white knights who would have tripped over themselves opening the unlocked door to rush to her aid?
With all those easy options, wjy was her response to take off her own clothes and engage in sex?
This really does not fit any reasonable definition of raape beyond feminist wishful thinking.
It is more like she was grudgingly talked into it, gave the signals that she resigned herself to do it even though she didn’t want to, changed her mind for sure while doing it, and he stopped when she clearly communicated this to him.
Make whatever judgement of that you want. But don’t call it raape.
Kindly explain away the facts without attacking me or pretending the outcome of a Korean court decision has any influence on my opinion.
How does the alternative work?
I’m honestly curious. Maybe I’ve been married too long.
Dating and kissing on bed.
Dude: “may I kiss you?”
(kissing without consent is assault too)
“may I touch your breast?”
“may I squeeze your bottom?”
“may I….”
This doesn’t seem awkward to you?
Fwiw, as a married woman I could still go to the JAG tomorrow and claim my husband raped me last night because I was too drunk to remember it. Even if we romped again the next morning. There are several cases here that are similar (not marriage, but dating after the ostensible even occurred and then the breakup, and then the claims that on their first date…).
Mens rea is the key factor to criminality in a rape conviction. This is a well established principle. It means “guilty mind”. Because human sexual relations are so dynamic and there are so many novel situations and context needed (maybe she had been “into” aggressive sex…we don’t know), there is no way to come to any real conclusions from the facts described.
However, we know he asked, “is this rape?” and stopped when she said, “yes”. Mens rea would indicate he is not guilty of rape, because he stopped as soon as he realized the sex was not wanted.
It’s rare, but not unheard of. A KATUSA and one of the girls in my unit started dating when I was stationed in Korea and last I heard they are engaged.
A: Do you want to have sex?
B: No.
A: Too bad I do, so….
B: Can I leave please?
A: No, we’re having sex because I want to.
-afterwards-
A: Hey was that rape?
B: Yes.
Well however awkward asking step-by-step would seem I’m betting it’s not as awkward as the above.
Liz what you’re describing is from The Book of Bull5hitting, chapter 4 entitled Logical Extremisms and You.
It’s like me saying I don’t like it when women shave their nether regions and personally would prefer if they didn’t. So CH in an opposing view exclaims “Smokes wants all women to look like Suzanna Hamilton in 1984! He’s a b4st4rd!”
Just like I don’t want all women to have beastly crotch-fros, no one is advocating that A needs to get explicit permission to perform every little sub-task from B. Just like CH might of used the 1984 reference of the bushiest bush to ever bush to turn people off to bush and support his view you’re using that example to illicit a “oh that’s stupid, we’re going too far, this is ridiculous!” response. Who said that was going to be the alternative? Besides the people who are using it as a ridiculous example of what we need to do to get some a-holes to understand that if someone says they don’t want to have sex the next step isn’t to employ rape-tactics that is.
Shame on you, not for being a woman and holding this POV but for thinking you were going to slide that crap past me. Moving along, I see CH below has written something about onions…
You know I’m going to have to Google that name.
And then probably regret it…
👿
“the man told her he wanted to have sex and she refused. He then said he would not let her leave the room, and forcibly had sex with her anyway.”
He said. Not she claimed, or we guess…. he said.
“He then said he would not let her leave the room, and forcibly had sex with her anyway”
Forcibly… hmmm…
“she said there was no physical attack, swearing or anything threatening”
I need to learn this skill of forcing people to do things… without any force.
Sounds like he browbeat her into it… as she “undressed on her own volition”.
She may be weak, stupid, confused, unsure, indecisive… but ahe is not a rape victim.
…and you, Smokes, have not made a case otherwise… or even tried.
Smokes… rape is a bad, bad thing… and likely nobody here supports it.
But this is not rape… and giving any traction to this bullshyt dilutes attention to real rape, desensitized society to the true problem, and hurts women who truly need support.
By being blind to reality here, you are hurting the actual victims you claim to support.
Again, explain why this is rape.
That was pretty damned funny response, Smokes.
🙂
Incorrect, I might add…because yesterday’s jokes (as you allude to above) are today’s realities. But funny nonetheless.
OMG Chickenhead, I read those Romance Novels as a kid, and Playboy, Penthouse Letter to the Editor I fabricated the scenarios you describe in my Virgin mind. Really, how dumb do you think we are/ no wait, the real question should be “How Superior do you think you are? SIEG HEIL!!!!
Oh dear. I seem to be in the minority here.
I assumed every guy shared the same experience since playing middle school kissyface…
…having a clear goal of getting some sort of action and developing a personal toolbox to manage the mood, emphasize my strong points, overcome objections, neutralize competition, and many others.
You studs must have had every girl throwing themselves at you but I had to work for it…
…from actually caring (or at least understanding) what SHE is looking for to have a great time… to encouraging heavy drinking/clownish behavior/etc. in the guys who are after the same thing…
…and then once in an intimate setting, incrementally increasing intensity until meeting objections… at which point I overcame those objection using techniques I learned through common sense, the stories of others, and previous failures.
I certainly did not have a 100% success rate and frequently got no farther than first or second base when I was looking to hit a home run… but success was certainly frequent enough to encourage me to continue trying… and I never needed to use force or confinement to get what I was after. My repeat customer statistics were also quite good… partially due to the followup being an important step in selling.
…and when it gets down to it, I am just selling the best product ever made… me.
I don’t really feel I should be thought of as a rapist because I kissed with a girl for 30 minutes, got my hand pushed away when I tried to cop an under-shirt feel, went back to the skipped steps of massage, more touching in other places, better communication, and outside-shirt feel…
…and then repeating this cycle all the way to the end.
I assumed every guy who wasn’t one of those lucky studs that every girl throws themselves at has been through this.
Ok this one’s getting out of hand.
So….
Who did an image search on Suzanna Hamilton 1984 nude? ➡
Come on fess up… who did it? 😈
I had forgotten all about this … I was at 121 Hospital a few years ago getting surgical prep from a very pretty, blond, blue eyed nurse — named 1LT Kang. I couldn’t help myself and just had to ask about her name. She said she had recently married a KATUSA who had also worked at the hospital, but had since ETSed.
I’m not entirely sure what you were getting at … but I would still like to add that I’m really glad the snatch shavin’ craze never caught on in Korea. That’s all. Carry on.
Damn, props to that KATUSA for pulling an officer.
Raises hand slowly…
And in response to guitard, smoothly shaved is optional, but neatly trimmed is better than wild jungle. Personally, I like a girl with a landing strip or a freshly mown putting green over a 10-year-old wanna be… Razor bumps are not sexy. YMMV.
Fortunately – Korea is in a part of the world where jungles don’t exist.
No video? They’re both lying.
Mattress girl…
Still… No video, they’re both lying…
CH, you’re probably right. Women allegedly want to be loved but they accept physical intimacy as a second choice. Sort of self-hypnosis. But it happens on a very regular basis–or so I’ve been told…
Best to remember a lot of KatUSA soldiers are likewise oriented towards exiting the service and/or maligning USFK. Or so I’ve been told.
My exposure to such things in Korea was short and well-chaperoned. Or so I’ve been told.
I’m lucky! My hole in 1, is through a heavy rough! 😛 😛 😎
Enjoy the walk in the past!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C11MzbEcHlw
It’s a well established part of our culture – and is celebrated in song:
Creedence Clearwater Revival – Run Through the Jungle (1970)
Kool & the Gang – Jungle Boogie (1973)
Jethro Tull – Bungle In The Jungle (1974)
Electric Light Orchestra – Jungle (1977)
Bruce Springsteen – Jungleland (1975)
Steve Miller Band – Jungle Love (1977)
Guns N’ Roses – Welcome To The Jungle (1991)
Randy Newman – It’s A Jungle Out There (2002)