Could North Korea Launch A Drone Based Provocation Against South Korea?
It is very easy to imagine North Korea using a drone attack against an infrastructure target in South Korea as part of a provocation strategy and then deny they did it. Remember this is the same country that torpedoed a ROK naval ship killing dozens of sailors, then denied they did it and still had people in South Korea making excuses for them:
The devastating drone attack on a Saudi oil field by Yemeni rebels has raised concerns that vital South Korean installations could be similarly vulnerable to attack drones from North Korea.
Some pundits believe North Korea has steadily improved its drone capabilities since leader Kim Jong-un took power, although so far only a few crashed unmanned aerial vehicles used for surveillance were found here.
But at recent military parades, the North has unveiled ostensibly self-destructing UAVs and, once armed, could potentially aim them at Cheong Wa Dae, Army headquarters and other key military installations.
Chosun Ilbo
You can read more at the link, but considering how far they have flown drones before into South Korea the ability to successfully conduct such an attack is there.
Do you remember and omit or just have selective memory that it is widely disputed outside of South Korea as to what sank the ROKS Cheonan? As usual you are being dishonest, you do not care about facts.
But, but , but ,
The Washington Post reported on 19 May 2010, that a team of investigators from Sweden, Australia, Britain, and the United States had concluded that a North Korean torpedo sank the ship. The team found that the torpedo used was identical to a North Korean torpedo previously captured by South Korea.[54] On 25 April 2010, the investigative team announced that the cause of the sinking was a non-contact underwater explosion.
GI, that 7th grade science project on the back of a 1967 truck resembles the glider bombs the Notzees used against the Italian navy after they surrendered to the Allies.
@Kravata, there’s a lot more to this story than the general public knows, including intelligence. You should choose your words wisely instead of blatantly attacking @GIKorea.
Also, as a former member of the U.S. Navy, I know personally that the way the Cheonan was split in half is exactly the way that Soviet-style torpedoes work. They are not contact detonated like World War II-era designs. They are made to explode under a ship and the concussion of the blast radiates outward snapping the keel (the centerline spine) of the ship, just like what happened to the Cheonan.
@Terry
Straight from Wikipedia? How did you miss this section?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking#Other_international_research
@Tagum City Tim
It can also be done with proximity mine and torpedo used as evidence could have been procured from North Korea during the arduous march, corruption, money, or even if South Korean infiltrators/commandos in one of operations in North Korea.
@setnaffa
No. Not even close.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_X
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel_Hs_293
@Kravata
And Wikipedia is SUCH a reliable source of information. Any nutjob (no offense CH) can go in there and post anything they want on those pages with no corroboration whatsoever. As I stated, there is a lot about this case that the public does not know.
@Tagum City Tim
The very reason against Wikipedia you say also apply to any other form of media, including books from likes of Gordon G. Chang… Wikipedia is best out there when it comes to a database, its free, open and information is compiled. You can check what is written, there, if you’re not sure about accuracy you can always do your own research, fact checking…
@Kravata
If you believe that Wikipedia is “the best out there,” then you have a lot to learn about research and peer-reviewed writing. Additionally, I always do my own fact-checking and discount sources such as Wikipedia, as all of the true academic community does, for the unreliable and unverifiable sources of information that could be compiled to make the point of a specific writer. I do not quote Gordon S. Chang for the same reason.
@Tagum City Tim
If? No I don’t, will you double down and lie?
Why don’t you read two, three or more times until you get it what I have wrote?
Or are you ignoring words such as database, free, open, information compiled?
You can’t discount Wikipedia as a source because it is not a source, asserting otherwise is dishonest and act of lying as it is a database whose sources are articles and sometimes other databases. Some of your criticism of Wikipedia can apply for example to Encyclopedia Britannica.
Wikipedia is a database, it contains sources, it is not Wikipedia sources as those are not from Wikipedia, get it? Though you mention peer-review as an argument, either you’re not aware or are you denying that such occurs at Wikipedia?
@Kravata
I do not dispute your assertion that SOME of Wikipedia’s compilations are based upon informational sources are worthy of being called peer-reviewed. I dispute the verifiability of some of the sources and whether they have been held up to academic standards of accuracy. Some of what appears in Wikipedia is what is called “junk science” because it has no accountability to the scientific method.
I love these back and forths that will go nowhere because both of us are too stubborn to accede to the other’s point of view. I have time and can keep this up all day. What’s your next argument?
Wikipedia has fucking rules, section about what source is considered reliable, questionable, unreliable… There are people that fact check, there is rule of concensus, debate in talk section, etc… Its not perfect, its not total anarchy, etc… Its hit or miss… Depending on subject and topic… Some reach academic standards, others don’t.
Some journals that are known academic standards of accuracy have had in some cases failed to adhere or simply had too much trust in author.
@Klavata
You make my point with four simple words, “It’s hit or miss.” That is why Wikipedia is not a trusted source for any type of serious research. Regardless of whether they have “fucking rules,” makes no difference.
As for the Cheonan incident, which started this whole back and forth, the only people who really know what happened are now either dead (ROK sailors) or are in North Korea where propaganda rules. Remember, Kim Jong Un learned to drive a car when he was three-years-old.
For the rest of the ROK Drop regulars,
I hope you are enjoying this back and forth as much as I.
I didn’t make your point, why are you lying? As I said Wikipedia not a source yet you insist it is, why do you keep asserting such claim?
Remember, a lot of bullshit about North Korea comes from South Korea and Japan.
@Kravata
Okay, here is what I got from you… Wikipedia is a free, open-source of information…it is a compilation of other sources… all those facts I agree with.
However, as a whole, Wikipedia cannot be trusted because some of its so-called “sources” are nothing but “junk science” or opinion, not scientifically verifiable facts.
Also, if you would like to see the type of propaganda that North Korea puts out, just visit the website where they offer books on the Kim family that have been translated meticulously into English by some of the most authoritative, non-English speaking North Korean scholars available. Here’s a good website for this https://www.north-korea-books.com
Tim, please don’t feed the trolls.
@setnaffa
But it’s so much fun!!
@Tagum City Tim
For the rest of the ROK Drop regulars,
I hope you are enjoying this back and forth as much as I.
Willing to bet a dollar to cheon won that most eyeballs have read your comments … and skipped over the other guy’s comments.
@Stephen
Thanks for the vote of confidence. As with the lunatic left in the US, all you have to do is keep hitting them with facts and they quickly tire and want to run away to their safe spaces, usually spouting some expletives and calling you racist, xenophobic, homophobic, and any other epithets their small minds can come up with.
@Tagum City Tim, you must be a teacher, or have a teachers heart, your patient explanation of why Wikipedia is useful but not reliable is worthy for any teacher to use for their students. And sadly Kravada is the latest in a string of “special” students…
@2IDDoc
I was never a formal teacher, but I did teach a lot of numbskulls in the Navy. I guess that’s where I get my patience from. About @Kravata not understanding my point, that’s the way it is with people today. Everything that is on the Internet HAS to be true!! 😉 😉
@Tagum City Tim
Now you get it, had to repeat to you several times.
I agree that Wikipedia can not be trusted in full, but I have never stated such in the first place, though I am not surprised you repeatedly act as if I did. Do you remember and omit/ignore what I have wrote or do you have selective memory? As I said if you think that X Y Z is not correct you can do the fact checking yourself.
I am as interested as spending money on North Korean propaganda as I am on American propaganda. Its Zero, Nada, Zilch, Nula, etc… Dollars, Pounds, Euros, Kunas… They say they won the Korean War… The Americans say that World War 2 was won thanks to them… Both bullshit.
@setnaffa
…says the person that does the trolling.
@Tagum City Tim
“Its so much fun to dishonest and lie!”
@Stephen
“Most people don’t care about facts, only one side of the story.”
@Tagum City City
So you were talking about scientific facts and what not about that yet you make this garbage of a comment where you generalize “left”(if we can even call that left by global standards) on actions by a tiny minority.
What facts do right wingers say to those “left” wingers exactly that makes them run to “safe spaces”? Anyway this narrative that right wing folks and media name “left” wing as snowflakes is ironic when the right wing in its history was the one doing the snowflaking, from red scare, anti-unionism, against non-whites having equal rights, against LGBT, spreading bullshit that only gays can have AIDS/HIV(so scientific) and generalizing non-whites.
@2IDDoc
I am special? I had to repeat my point several times, each time in different way while also further explaining it to him, so I am special and not he who couldn’t get it until 3rd or 4th time.
@Tagum City Tim
No, you did not understand my point. Are you going to lie and pretend it didn’t took you 3 or 4 times to understand what I have wrote initially? So much for being factual.
Where’s Rocky, Rocky, Rocky?
Trolls always start off with poorly researched flamebait and then slide sideways to pretend they were arguing the exact opposite. Like from Wikipedia being a great source with f’in’ rules to Wikipedia’s not a source as above.
You really have to feel sorry for people who (if they are unconnected to Korea, being Croatian and all) still feel compelled to show up here and park sideways across all the handicapped spots in a beat-up 67 Fiat…
@setnaffa
I feel sorry for you, being a troll yet a coward, you’re refer to me in your comment yet you have no guts to say it directly because that would make you accountable for lies and bullshit about me.
Or you like Tagum City Tim have comprehension issues. So will you again repeat what you wrote and lie yet again? Be predictable as usual.
@setnaffa
I was about to respond to the latest tirade by our friend @Klavata, but I bow to your superior beat down of this most annoying troll. What he does not realize is that all of his sources and all of his opinions are nothing next to the hundreds of years of cumulative ROK experience that we, the regular readers of the ROK Drop, have.
@Klavata
I believe I speak for all of the regular ROK Drop readers when I say, “Be gone disgusting troll!” Crawl back to your safe space in your mommy’s basement and calculate where you will pop up next.
@All the regular readers of ROK Drop
I believe this post holds the record for the number of responses this year. Thanks to our most entertaining troll @Klavata.
@GIKorea
Am I correct in my statement?
@Tagum City Tim
You do not realize that you and others demonstrated repeatedly all that ROK “experience” is worth jack shit when you and people like you including GIKorea have repeatedly lied about ROK and its current administration while also siding with Japan, that is their current leadership/government that is rife with Nippon Kaigi and other Imperial Japan nationalists/fascists organizations. That includes Abe Shinzo, member of Nippon Kaigi and his maternal grandfather known is China as Devil of Showa, Abe on numerous occasions said he is proud of him.
Do you eat shit like this? https://www.rokdrop.net/2019/08/did-the-moon-administration-cancel-the-gsomia-to-draw-attention-away-from-their-corrupt-justice-minister-nominee/
Also how sweet you seeking validation from GIKorea like he is your master and you being a dog.
Once again, the liberal snowflake mentality is on full display. Throw out profanities, degrade, and bully your opponent into submission instead of admitting defeat and retreating to the safe space they love. You’re a misguided extremist troll. I grow tired of feeding your hunger for half-truths and other platitudes. Please don’t respond to me with any “facts” from Wikipedia either. I haven’t read any of the ones you have sent because my stance has not changed on that matter. Liberals accuse others of what they are guilty of so I would suggest you have a good look in the mirror for the one with which you seek to converse.
Once again you have to lie about me, it is not surprising. You accusing me of snowflaking and being liberal, both are false that have no basis in fact and you can read over and over what I have wrote in here, you will find nothing, only options you will have is to do mental gymnastics and lie.
Your response is clear, you are annoyed at my presence in your safe space and want me to go to my “safe space”, lets not forget that you in here mentioned “left”/”leftists” and complained about them. Yet I am apparently snowflaking according to your narrative.
So you admit you haven’t read my responses, ok. So all that narrative about facts and what not is bullshit, your reply is bullshit as you reply without reading what I wrote. Are you going to backtrack and do damage control?
No, I will not backtrack! I will push on and on until your head explodes in a blaze of glory not seen since the original “Kingsmen” movie (see URL below):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD24VY0YWdQ
I am many! I am one! I am invincible!
Then lie until you die.
@Kravata
I must say, when you get on a subject you stick to it like glue. Your insistence that I am lying is so funny to me. I have not said one thing, besides when I was leading you along, that was not factual. How can I lie about facts? Oh, I know, if it doesn’t fit your narrative, then it’s a lie, right?
Let me present you with another fact that you will probably deem a lie. The area where the Cheonan was sunk is south of the ROK-controlled island of Baengyong-do in ROK waters. That area is swept for mines regularly by the ROK Navy (I know this because I was once taken to the island onboard a ROK Navy minesweeper that doing active minesweeping operations as we approached the island). The ROK Navy is well-aware of the dangers of NK SOF or other forces covertly planting mines in the areas around their islands.
Here’s a map of the area. In case you don’t read Korean (as I do), the “X” on the left of the picture indicates where they discovered the stern of the ship and the “X” on the right shows where the forward part was found. The explosion marker is positioned where the Cheonan was torpedoed. Considering where the Cheonan was struck, it lines up as a perfect shot for a NK torpedo coming in from the north-northwest.
Hope I didn’t put in too many “lies” for you to handle. 😛 😛
http://img.yonhapnews.co.kr/etc/graphic/YH/2010/03/29/GYH2010032900120004400_P2.jpg
“Let me present you with another fact that you will probably deem a lie.” – Yet another lie from you, narrative based on lies about me as usual. Will you lie about me once more? All you can do about me is lie about me. You have repeatedly demonstrated such yet you feint ignorance, innocence and outright present lies about me as fact in your narrative.
The evidence is in your comments and you are well aware of what lies you have said, for sake of your own narrative you conduct mental gymnastics like this comment of yours.
@Kravata
You are certain in love with the word “lie.” To tell you the God’s honest truth I’ve been engaging in some of the most outrageous conduct I have ever exhibited on this blog (if you think I’m lying again, just ask the other guys). I rarely have this much fun getting someone to commit to a string of meaningless blather. You’re so easy to get going and it’s such a pleasure to watch you try to justify everything you say. At some point, I will grow tired of this escapade and will drop you like a hot potato. However, for the time being, keep coming at me and I’ll keep coming at you until @GIKorea gets tired of seeing this and shuts us both down.
Live long, and Prosper 😀
@Kravata – you disparage the regular commenters and a far larger number of lurkers here at your own peril. I will set forward my expertise on the issues within the peninsula. I arrived at Oscan Air Base on 15 February 1989. I was assigned to D Co 2nd Med Bn at Camp Edwards West in the Western Corridor the most direct and least difficult way to get to Seoul from the North. I spent almost 1 year in direct support of the UNC mission on the DMZ, to include several daytime and nighttime patrols on the DMZ. On 9 February 1990 I boarded a flight at Kimpo International Airport, a very different man with a love for a country that hosted me for a year. Since leaving the Land of the Morning Calm, I spent many hours searching for and reading about current events in Korea. Once I got online, my searches got much easier, no longer spending off days searching through my local library magazine section. I am long removed from my military service and my uniform, but I as am up to date on what is happening on the Korean Peninsula as anyone with an real interest. I know others on here are much more informed and much closer to events than I am at 8,581km and 7 time zones away. But make no mistake, we as a group have a much closer feeling for events regarding the Korean Peninsula than you or any other troll who comes wandering in here to spout mistruths or outright Chinese or North Korean propaganda. This will be my last comment to you, and as long as I see your name, I will ignore it as I know it is a waste of data.
@2ID Doc
Well said! You did what I plan to do once poking this guy becomes tedious. For now, I’m having too much fun seeing what will come out of his brain next. As I said before in this chain of replies, the regulars here have hundred (perhaps even near 1,000 years) of experience with ROK, DPRK, and East Asian affairs and we know from whence we speak. Since you were nice enough to share your Korea story, I will share mine (You might want to grab a cup of coffee, this isn’t going to be short).
Landed at Osan Air Base for the first time in April 1983. Was assigned to Naval Security Group Activity, Pyongtaek (Camp Humphreys) where I spent two years being a Korean language spook and getting to know the culture. Departed Korea only to return three years later (just before the 88 Seoul Olympics). Stationed at NSGA PT again for two years, was assigned advanced Korean language training at Yonsei University in Seoul for a year, then did a follow-on tour for one year at SUSLAK (Special U.S. Liaison Advisor, Korea, another spook assignment). Left Korea for the second time in 1992 and returned for my final tour, 1995-2000, which I spent once again at SUSLAK. Almost 12 years in-country, spread out over a 20-year career in the Navy. The times I wasn’t in Korea physically, I was still actively involved in Korea. In three years, I will celebrate my 40th anniversary of Korean experience and counting. (Did you finish your coffee yet?)
That’s it. Goodnight from the Philippines.
Tagum City Tim OUT!
Blablablabla… I have my contacts in ROK too. So what.
@Kravata
Aha! So you admit to listening to the ROK propaganda on North Korea as you accused all of the other readers here? It seems you are not very different now, are you? Also, all of that “Blablablabla” you accused @2ID Doc and me of doing, is a way that ROK heads like us gauge each other and make decisions as to who we trust and who we do not. You, my friend, are definitely in the latter category.
Also, having “contacts” in the ROK is NOT the same as having lived there. A big part of being able to figure out Koreans (or any nationality for that matter) is to live among them and learn why they do things the way they do. While living in the ROK, I found more than a few ideas of doing things that at first made no sense to me as a Westerner, but I found myself gradually using just out of practicality.
Now, I am sure that all I have said here is all lies according to your pattern, so I look forward to your next post with the anticipation of a nice, satisfying dump!
@Kravata finally gave up! I WIN!!!! Da da daaaa… da da daaaa (Rocky theme music)
@2ID Doc, @setnaffa, @J6Junkie and others who supported me in banishing this troll, I thank you for the part you played. I knew going in that he did not have the stamina to carry on a continued dialogue, always defaulting to saying that I was lying about him and other things and pushing Wikipedia and his “contacts” in the ROK as proof that he knew what he was talking about. I don’t think I pushed any real lies during my ramblings, but if I did, it was all in the good cause of getting rid of our troll.
Thanks again to all the ROKheads who had my back. Perhaps in the future, I can return the favor.