Japan Releases Video It Says Proves Reconnaissance Aircraft was Locked On By ROK Navy Ship
Here is the latest on the targeting radar spat between South Korea and Japan:
South Korea’s defense ministry expressed “deep concerns and regrets” Friday over Japan’s release of video footage related to an ongoing military radar spat, accusing Tokyo of releasing “misleading” facts.
Yonhap
Japan released a 13-minute-long video clip showing the operation of its Maritime Self-Defense Force’s P-1 patrol aircraft to back up its claim that a South Korean naval destroyer targeted the warplane with fire-control radar on Thursday last week.
Seoul has rejected the claim, saying that its 3,200-ton Gwanggaeto the Great destroyer did not target the plane of the partner country and that it was on a humanitarian operation to trace a North Korean ship drifting into international waters of the East Sea.
Here is the video that was released by Japan:
Here is what the ROK is claiming happened:
The footage showed an operator of the aircraft communicating a message to the South Korean Navy about its alleged discovery of the destroyer’s radar directed at his plane in a relatively calm voice that observers say did not reflect a sense of urgency.
Yonhap
“This is the Japanese Navy … We observed that your FC (fire control) antenna is directed at us,” an operator said in a message sent to the Korean navy.
“What is the purpose of your act, over?” he added without demanding that the Korean Navy stop what Tokyo has characterized as a “dangerous act.”
A South Korean military official noted that the plane was flying only about 150 meters above the destroyer and around 500 meters away from its side — a flight that could be seen as posing a threat to a foreign Navy.
“The reason why we did not lodge an immediate protest against a low-flying plane was that we were focusing on the rescue operation with the thought of it being a friendly aircraft,” the official said on condition of anonymity.
“The plane capable of carrying missiles and torpedoes can pose a threat even when it operates from a distance. But it was approaching the Navy ship,” he added.
Seoul officials also pointed out that Japan failed to offer a “smoking gun,” namely its analysis of the radar frequency which can verify whether the radar Tokyo claims was used against it was a targeting system.
While Japan’s aircraft was approaching the destroyer, the antenna of its fire-control radar, STIR 180, appears to have turned toward the plane, as the Navy tried to identify the plane with an electro-optical targeting system attached to the radar. But the radar did not send out any beam to the plane, Seoul officials have said.
The reconnaissance aircraft was clearly marked as being Japanese and had no missiles on it. The weather was very clear so claiming the aircraft was a threat is far fetched in my opinion. Does anyone have any opinions on who to believe in regards to this spat?
“Does anyone have any opinions on who to believe in regards to this spat?”
Do you really believe that South Korea was aiming at the low flying Japanese plane that was approaching the South Korean ship, to fire at it? Then why didn’t they?
The real question that I want to ask is why Japan is making a such a big deal over this?
locking up an aircraft with tagt tracking radar is a hostile act, Japan would have been justified to shoot the Korean ship. commie moob admin is lying and trying to paint Japan as bad in order to try to get South Koreans to want to unify under the nK flag to fight Japan.
Here is the English ver
http://www.mod.go.jp/e/press/release/2018/12/28z.html
“Modern radar systems do not have a lock-on system in the traditional sense; tracking is provided by storing radar signals in computer memory and comparing them from scan to scan using algorithms to determine which signals correspond to single targets. These systems do not change their signals while tracking targets, and thus do not reveal they are locked-on.”
“locking up an aircraft with tagt tracking radar is a hostile act, Japan would have been justified to shoot the Korean ship. ”
And why was the Japanese plane approaching the South Korean ship with such low altitude? The Japanese were not engaged in the rescue attempt of the North Korean vessel.
Meanwhile, it took 50 days for Japan to admit to news stories that its coast guards were kidnapped by illegal Chinese fishing boats.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/12/28/national/japan-admits-chinese-trawler-fled-eez-inspectors-board-november/#.XCaJeBNKgUE
Japan is barking furiously at South Korea over this radar incident, but they have nothing to say about China’s behavior. It looks like it’s not just Moon sucking on China’s a-hole.
TORU@KOREASPARKLING, that is the Japanese version of what happened.
Here’s the unbiased third party source report:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/weapons-radar-row-flares-up-between-south-korea-and-japan/articleshow/67286533.cms
South Korea was in the wrong here. And I don’t appreciate being forced to say nice things about the Japanese. And just because some naval weapons systems use TWS radar systems like those formerly used by the Soviets doesn’t mean there is no difference detectable… just sayin’…
And the knavish “…low-altitude flight in a threatening manner..” comment from the official statement makes the whole world see the South Koreans as pansies, not players… That Japanese aircraft was obviously no threat.
The long-term South Korean Government propaganda directed against Japan is going to get people killed…
What do you expect from Navy guys, they all the same regardless of National Origin.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/sex-navy-couple-recreates-iconic-ww-ii-kiss-faces-backlash-just-showing-love-195005876.html
Setnaffa, the Japanese side did not show any evidence that the South Korean navy fired the STIR signal at their plane. The South Korean navy insists that they only used the MW08 radar. The Japanese side insists that South Korean side fired the STIR radar, then they can easily show their evidence if they wanted to. But they do not. Why is that? Again the point stands, why the Japanese plane flew 150 meters from the Korean naval ship that was engaged in a rescue operation? It’s only natural for any navy to feel they are being tracked by hostile forces when a plane flies so low towards them. Why didn’t the Japanese airforce warn the South Korean navy? Because isn’t it true Japanese were testing out the reactionary system of the South Korean navy? What did Japan expect with such hostile flying?
The fact that the japanese are not publicly releasing classified information does not invalidate their claim.
We already know there are South Koreans who are so racist they hate the US for defending them from Kim Fatty I.
You just have fun with your fantasies. Moon is going to get Koreans I care about killed. And the Japanese, while not a particularly attractive people, are far more of an ally than the worm-eaten folks north of the rapidly disappearing DMZ.
CH, maybe modern radars but South Korea always goes cheap since it knows daddy warbucks is here. South Korea bought a pieced together system to put on its ships, kinda like their patriot system is pieced together from the world arms discount flea market. Google search finds that this class of ship does in fact have seperate determinable radar types: The electronics suite includes one Raytheon AN/SPS-49(V)5 2D long-range radar (LRR), one Thales Nederland MW08 target indication 3D radar (TIR), two Thales Nederland STIR240 fire-control radars with OT-134A Continuous Wave Illumination (CWI) transmitters, an SLQ-200(V)K SONATA electronic warfare system and a KDCOM-II combat management system which is derived from the Royal Navy Type 23 frigate’s SSCS combat management system.
Good grief, Flyingsword…
…the Korean ship is sort of the naval equivalent of a hoarder homeless lady pushing a shopping cart filled with things she picked out of the dumpster behind the thrift shop.
On the other hand, the low-flying Japanese are complaining like frat boys in a sports car who drove by Skid Row to throw urine on the homeless and were upset when one pulled a pistol.
Perhaps there are no heroes or villains in this story… and there are just organizations testing abilities, weaknesses, and limits.
Good job on your research.
CH, if you think that the Kawasaki is a “sports car” (even compared to the surface vessels), we need to get you better glasses… 😆 😆 😆
The Japanese plane was not flying in a threatening manner. It was clearly marked who they were, had no weapons, and despite the claims the altitude they were flying at was not threatening. Tourist helicopters fly around Pearl Harbor at similar altitudes. Should the US Navy begin shooting them down?
Using the fire control radar was unprofessional behavior. It would be the equivalent of a Japanese soldier walking up to a group of ROK soldiers to see what they were working on. Instead of asking the Japanese soldier to leave, the ROK soldiers pull out a gun and point it at him. Even if there wasn’t any rounds in the chamber, it is still not a professional act that members of a professional military should be doing.
Are the Japanese making this an overblown issue for domestic political reasons? Of course they are, just like the ROK makes every little issue with Japan overblown for domestic political reasons.
This is just more tit-for-tat between two countries that should be natural allies to off-set their real geo-political adversaries in the region. The North Koreans and the Chinese enjoy seeing this and will do what they can to make sure it continues.
GIKorea, two questions for you. One, where’s the proof that the Korean destroyer was aiming the guns at the plane (other than this flimsy excuse of an evidence, a video provided by Japan of Japanese plane flying extremely low). Two, why was the Japanese plane flying so low at 150m high towards the South Korean destroyer at a time when the Japanese knew very well that the South Koreans were engaged in a rescuing mission? What was their purpose in this mission? And did the Japanese tried to interfere with this rescue mission? Finally, you may want to review the international law regarding flying planes low against international entities.
The International Civil Aviation Safety Convention (ANNEX2 Chapter 4 Visual fl igt rules) established by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) states that “unless the aircraft is required for take-off or landing or has been authorized by the relevant authorities, It is forbidden to fly within 150m or 500 feet”. In other words, the Japanese plane was breaking the international aviation law, and they proved that they were breaking the law by showing this video of their plane flying so low towards the South Korean destroyer.
Appeasing, they were not within 500 feet. They were probably not within 1000 feet of the Korean vessels. Modern cameras have this newfangled thing they call a zoom feature. If you watch the video, you can see this in action.
And unless you can prove you’re not just another racist troll, I’m going to assume you are. You’ve less reason to be angry with the Japanese than I do, so stop trying to prove Dokdo is Korean for Liancourt Rocks, okay?
Oh, and locking the fire control radar on an aircraft is “pointing the guns” when the primary air defense “guns” are a Mk 48 Mod 2 VLS with Sea Sparrow missiles like this one:
“Appeasing, they were not within 500 feet. They were probably not within 1000 feet of the Korean vessels.”
Setnaffa, here’s your proof, from Japan’s own video of what happened. As you can see the Japanese plane well within 150 feet of the South Korean destroyer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SscDx5BG5F8
Remember, this shot is what Japan has published to the world. You can hear the Japanese pilot, describing the South Korean destroyer attempting a rescue of North Koreans who were clinging to a raft, then the Japanese pilot is heard screaming in unintelligible very poor English with a very heavy accent which South Korean navy probably had no way of understanding.
>”And unless you can prove you’re not just another racist troll, I’m going to assume you are. You’ve less reason to be angry with the Japanese than I do, so stop trying to prove Dokdo is Korean for Liancourt Rocks, okay?”
It’s funny I did not mention anything about Dokdo is Korean, okay? You are the one being a racist here, just assuming that anyone with a Korean descent automatically agrees with Moon and North Korea. That’s called stereotyping and racism. And I feel sorry for your wife that she probably has to take this kind of abuse from you daily.
>Oh, and locking the fire control radar on an aircraft is “pointing the guns” when the primary air defense “guns” are a Mk 48 Mod 2 VLS with Sea Sparrow missiles like this one:
Boy, you have no clue what you’re talking about. Please stop spreading lies OK? Are you trolling? Isn’t it true that you’re just saying that it’s Korea’s fault because you don’t like South Korea’s foreign policy, so therefore you’re going to take any side that opposes South Korea? That’s your entire argument here.
I know you’re not interested in any facts here, but I’m going educate on the facts anyway.
The South Korean destroyer Gwanggaeto is armed with 4 radar systems. They are MW-08, SPS-95K, SPS-49(V)5, and the STIR 180. And out of that, only STIR 180 is a lock and fire system. The South Korean navy denies that they shot the STIR radar, while Japan says otherwise. So who is right? It’s burden of the accuser (Japan) who has to provide evidence. But Japan refuses to release this, saying that they have this evidence but they are not releasing it because it’s confidential. If Japan can’t release the information, then their argument is over.
@AppeasingNorthKorea, the reason the Japanese plane was out there was routine intelligence collection. The US does this all the time as well. You may remember nearly 20 years ago when a US intelligence aircraft was brought down by unprofessional conduct by a Chinese aircraft near Hainan Island. Fortunately this spat is no where near what happened with that incident.
The Japanese are not going to release how they collect radar emissions data. This is sensitive technology the ROK and other nation’s would find useful if they knew how well the Japanese can collect on them.
As far distance from the ship there is nothing in the video that states what altitude the plane was flying. So claiming it was flying within 150 meters is nothing but a guess unless more information is released to show otherwise. Regardless the plane was not a “threat” as the ROK is claiming.
I have done military training before in Korea and had ROK Army helicopters fly right over us to see what we were doing. Should have one of the Avenger teams supporting the training lock on to the helicopters because they were a “threat” flying within 150 meters? No because it was completely unnecessary, instead people waved at the helicopter.
GI Korea, you still didn’t answer my question, where is the evidence that the South Korean ship projected their lock and fire STIR Radar? Where is the evidence? The Japanese politicians are the only ones claiming this. Even the Japanese defense ministry is shying away from this claim. Look at the video, even the Japanese pilot did not act as if his plane was locked into a missile.
Have a look at this analysis of this event:
https://southkoreanmilitary.blogspot.com/2018/12/fighter-pilots-view-on-japan-korea.html
I am ready to admit that I’m wrong, if shown the conclusive evidence (other than what the Japanese politicians are claiming). But so far, I have not seen anything to support the Japanese side who is clearly exaggerating and playing up this incident to worsen the relations between the two countries.
http://www.testniquesinc.com/t4pit.jpg
The photo above shows an unclassified trainer for Electronic Warfare Officers on B-52s from 30 years ago. There were devices back then that could determine what was looking at the aircraft and what level of threat it represented (Search, Tracking, or “Track While Scan”). As you might imagine, electronics have gotten far more sophisticated since then. In fact, many of the devices pictured relied on vacuum tubes.
To assume the current Japanese equipment on their latest model of patrol craft is less sophisticated than even the ROK Air Force is either the height of arrogance, or rank stupidity. Similarly, no one is stating what they currently can detect at what ranges; but at less than 5 miles, you can bet they know everything but the preferred gender and blood type of the radar operator.
The Japanese have been antsy about Radar tracking them ever since Pearl Harbor and Okinawa.
>To assume the current Japanese equipment on their latest model of patrol craft is less sophisticated than even the ROK Air Force is either the height of arrogance, or rank stupidity.
Setnaffa, who is saying this?? You are not even on the topic other then spewing your prejudice that Japanese politicians have nothing but good intentions, while the Korean navy is just lying. Japanese PM Abe personally ordered this video footage to be released, against the advice of the Japanese Defense Ministry.
Look here: https://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2018122800890.
The Japanese side even admitted that this footage does not achieve in proving their accusation. So what do base your firm belief that the Korean side used their STIR radar, locked and ready to fire on the Japanese plane?
From the Japanese released footage, the Japanese pilots were not panicking, while continuing to fly around the ship for a long time.
The radar lock that the Japanese politicians are howling with anger, was the South Korea’s MW-08 radar which was turned on at the time to locate the North Korean wreck. That radar looks 360 degrees, and the Japanese plane probably stumbled onto the range when it flew over the Korean destroyer. The Japanese pilots probably mistook this as a lock on them, and then attempted to radio the Koreans with their horrible English. The Korean side couldn’t understand what the pilot was saying and assumed the Japanese were requesting Japanese coast guard ships to the area. It was a misunderstanding, but the people who flipped the switch were the Japanese politicians like Abe who saw this as a chance to increase tensions with Korea, because he was sore with South Korea.
And he probably found this convenient to use, so that he can play up the external dangers from Korea, so that he can build up his military and have his military more prominent and free from restrictions that are imposed on them by their national constitution.
This article gives a good rundown
http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/Article.aspx?aid=3057536
@AppeasingNK, I already answered your questions. You are not going to get definitive evidence because the Japanese are not going to release sensitive radar collection data.
And I already told you that the Japanese are making this an overblown issue for domestic political reasons just like the ROK government does with hot button Japanese issues all the time.
The biggest winners of this spat as I stated before are the Chinese and North Koreans.
>You are not going to get definitive evidence because the Japanese are not going to release sensitive radar collection data.
Or there’s the other possibility. Simply they don’t have the data that the radar was a STIR radar that had a lock on the plane. Would you at least consider that as one of the possibilities, instead of just taking their words at face value while choosing to discount what the Korean navy is saying? Is that really fair?
The possibility is that the Japanese politicians who released this footage against the advice of their military leaders, simply didn’t understand the radar signals were coming from South Korean navy’s MW-08 radar which is not a lock and fire system. The Japanese pilots, twice, in the video radioed that they noticed that the South Korean guns were not pointing at them when the radar signals happened. That alone should tell you that the radar signal emanating from the Korean destroyer was not a lock and fire radar.
Even some Japanese ex-politicians and leaders agree that Japan was in the wrong to blow this incident out of proportion. My problem is I don’t like the way how you badmouth my former colleagues in the Korean military who has always been a firm ally of the US, despite the bad South Korean politicians who’ve always tried their best to undermine them, while you give a blank check to the Japanese politicians who by the way, over rid the objections from their military to release this biased footage.
“My problem is I don’t like the way how you badmouth my former colleagues in the Korean military who has always been a firm ally of the US, despite the bad South Korean politicians who’ve always tried their best to undermine them.”
Your colleagues in the ROK military are behaving the way that Moon wants them to behave. Do you think they’d be conducting ‘huminatarian’ missions with NK vessels (who knows what they were really doing) if a conservative president was in office? Would SK even have this sort of spat if a conservative were president? Maybe, but not as overblown.
Also, the issue with flying within 150 meters? As said before, you can’t definitively determine the distance unless you have a laser rangefinder. A SK navy officer said they were 150 meters off the deck, 500 meters laterally. Simple geometry tells you this is more than 500 meters distance from the ship.
“Also, the issue with flying within 150 meters? As said before, you can’t definitively determine the distance unless you have a laser rangefinder.”
Again, the ROK navy has officially said the MW-08 Radar was turned on. That radar is not a lock and fire system, as alleged by Japan. Why do you guys keep ignoring this crucial fact? It was turned to rescue a very small North Korean boat in trouble. I don’t think they could have transferred much material wealth onto what is essentially a wooden raft, as you are alleging.
Keep digging.
“The MW 08 (abbreviation of Dutch words: Maritiem Waarschuwing, i.e. maritime surveillance) is an operating in G-Band short to medium range multibeam air and surface surveillance, target acquisition, and tracking radar.”
http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/07.naval/karte073.en.html
Come on, Korea…
If the subject of your target lock can’t provide clear electronic records proving your target lock, face it… it was a half-assed target lock.
…and you look incompetent.
Learn from the professionals on how to deal with low-flying enemy aircraft snooping around and looking for problems.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
This doesn’t solidify any opinion… but is worth a read to clear some of the speculation and misinformation.
http://southkoreanmilitary.blogspot.com/2018/12/fighter-pilots-view-on-japan-korea.html?m=1
Chickenhead, that’s the same link that I posted the other day, I wonder how many people here have even bothered to read it. I’m questioning you, Setnaffa. You ignorant a$$hat. Now get educated and read what Chickenhead just posted above.
And look at here, a Japanese government official even takes South Korea’s side and criticizes his own government saying what South Korea did was nothing wrong, and that Japan was the one making trouble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfMGf3ba85c
According to the Korean news, there are more and more criticisms from Japanese experts and Japanese media, criticizing Japanese government stupid dick Abe’s move which has backfired on them. So now the Japanese government and media are toning down their rhetorics (according to the Korean news report).
@Chickenhead/AppeasingNK, the link pretty much states what I have been saying that the Japanese are not going to release their radar collection data. Likewise the link states that the ROK can release the data from their ship and likely won’t do it either because of the classified nature of the system. That means we are never going to get to the bottom of this, but the author makes a strong case that the ROK Navy ship may have not done anything wrong.
With that said none of this would have ever made the media if it wasn’t for the piss poor relationship between the governmental leaders of the ROK and Japan caused by petty domestic politics.
For the record, I am not taking a side… or even forming an opinion… as I know nothing about this technically nor what actions and reactions are traditionally appropriate.
That said, if it was ChickenHead’s navy, any plane approaching my ship within range of their weapons would get a friendly target lock as a reminder to maintain good manners at all times.
But I guess that’s not the way it is done… and that has helped keep us all out of WWIII.
It all seems like a non-issue… Japan harassed Korea, Korea (maybe) harassed Japan, everybody whined… nobody should care.
…though it is a bit… uncomfortable… when South Korea is getting buddy-buddy with North Korea while looking for ways to stir up conflict with Japan.
One could make some pretty disappointing predictions on possible directions that could go.
All I posted was public domain information that clearly states the radar is a track while scan type. That’s enough of a threat for a HARM missile in certain theaters.
I get that some people want to lie about the situation. And it irritates me to be seen taking the Japanese side. If you knew me better, you’d know why. But the fact is that the Koreans were foolish and someone is going to probably get a Letter of Reprimand for giving the Japanese cause to make the ROK look bad.
I did not resort to name-calling here; but the fact that another did–much like some of our more normal trolls–leads me to believe there was more than just smoke…
For the record, I only operated a radar set. I wasn’t a radar tech. But one doesn’t need to be a genius to know the difference between Search and TWS…
Stuff like this can cause a war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOll3v55Dmo
And Tanker for the win. 😀
>That means we are never going to get to the bottom of this,
GIKorea, after you accused the South Korean navy of hostile action, and blamed them for all this, you’re slightly changing your tune now to a “we may truely never know”. Yeah right. In a case where it’s a tie like this, in a court of law, it’s always up to the accusers/prosecutors to prove their case with evidence. If Japan feels they can’t present their evidence because that may compromise Japan’s security, then that’s their fault. The Japanese foreign ministry should not be uploading Youtube videos like this, pretending that this video is an irrefutable proof that South Korean navy did wrong when it’s not. This is what we call, a liar.
>I did not resort to name-calling here
Setnaffa, another lie. Yes you did call me a name. You called me a “troll”. And you just did it again – all because I don’t agree with you.
>radar is a track while scan type.
No kidding. This is the last time I’m going to tell you this. The MW-08 radar which was the radar active at that time, is for tracking purposes only. It has no capability to fire on target because it’s not connected to any guns or missiles. Look up the damn system online, you clown.