XK2, Potential Export to Turkey
I posed the question earlier if the XK2 tank was next generation defense or a potential money maker? Well the answer to this question is emerging:
Turkey is considering purchasing South Korea’s new amphibious main battle tank unveiled last week for its next-generation tank procurement project, a military source said yesterday.
However, the Korean Main Battle Tank called XK2 is not the only option on the market. The French Army’s Leclerc is also a consideration, the source said on condition of anonymity.
“Chances are very high that South Korea could win the bid because Turkey’s Army and military officials trust our defense technologies more than those of France, the source was quoted as saying by the Yonhap News Agency in Seoul.
An official at the state-run Agency for the Defense Development (ADD), the main developer of the XK2, confirmed Seoul’s full-fledged efforts to export the tank to Turkey and other countries.
I would be surprised if the XK2 is not exported to Turkey because Turkey has already fielded the Korean K9 SPS system and France has been pushing to keep Turkey out of the European Union so why would they buy tanks from France?
HT: Commenter
Why would Turkey spend that much money though for a tank that doesn't sound like it warrants that much extra of an investment? Can Turkey not buy US tanks?
This is all speculation on my part so take it for what it is worth, but the US probably would sell M1's to Turkey however the US probably would not give them the update C4I technology that the US has only shares with really close allies like Britian and Australia. The XK2 has equivalent C4I technology that the Turks probably wanted to go along with a state of the art tank.
Also keep in mind the military is very powerful in Turkish politics. The military can constitutionally overthrow the government if it wants to. So by buying the state of the art equipment for the military the Turkis president can buy the loyalty of the military. Additionally the Turks probably don't want to be dependent on US arms and would prefer to get their equipment from a nation that they would not have any future disputes with. The Kurdish question in Iraq is still unsettled and Turkey has threatened to invade Iraqi Kurdistan if they declare independence. Having a state of the art military give them a stronger hand in playing power politics.
This can also work good advantage to Korea to test out the new battle tanks in battle conditions.
Also, you forgot the little fact that Turkish people feel high kinship with the Koreans – which also works to Korea's favor over France.
I can see how political and social currents in Turkey over the last 10 years or so would make the US reluctant to give them technology that still needs to be kept somewhat under wraps. That is probably a good idea.
I would think the bottom line would have to speak loudest though….these are nations we're talking about, and the price tag on the South Korean tank is so much higher (at least to the US tank).
I would think SK's newness in the market would be a factor too. I know it would for me….
But, if Turkey is happy with the artillery system they bought, they might not be wrong in putting more faith in Korea's industrial ability to build topline equipment.
Hi from Turkey
Well, First of all, the chance of French tank or any french product is near to zero..
Second, Our army denied american tanks many time before.. They are not suitable for our climate and geography…..
third, there is a hidden tension between Turkey and USA nowadays because of kurdish issue and US is not willing transfer technology in the sales, so military is seeking alternatives for USA weapons..
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As for K-9, Turkish artilerry is not the same with K-9 , body,subsystems and softwares and some electronics are indigenous, only some critical parts are coming from korea and if I am not wrong , it is not the licenced production but know-how purchase..
And as soon as I know, Turkey is seeking the same method for Battle Tank.. Turkey is currently capable to design indigenously almost all systems of a tank except some critical parts but a proven design phase would take very long time while we have 5000 tanks and about 4000 of them are trash (M-48, M-60)..
So , Turkey can also buy second hand K1 tanks which will be replaced by XK-2 by ROK army…
BTW, our navy also interest in KDX-3 since we have an indigenous AAW frigate project which is stopped , maybe we can also purchase know-how and critical systems on this area too…
Tom "Turkish people feel high kinship with the Koreans" this is completely true
GI KOREA – Your perception about Turkish military – Government relations is not exact. Since Practically (Not officially) Military itself decides the purchases , governments only approves or approves.. So military wouldn't consider it as a gift.. But you are right about power politics..
AloneWolf,
Appreciate the insights from Turkey. I figured the C4I technology transfer was probably the issue that prevents Turkey from buying US tanks.
Do you know if Turkey is going to buy second hand K1's as well?
Tom,
I seriously doubt the US would ever go to war with Turkey over the Kurdish issue. That is why the US is working so hard to keep Iraq together. So more than likely the XK2 won't be used anytime soon.
Hi Again,
I just have more information about tank procurement now…
Two turkish private defence / automotive company were missioned and funded for designing an indigenous MBT by undersecretary of defence.. And according to procurement they could choose sub-contractors for design, technical and critical part support.. As soon as I understand one of this companies agreed or negotiating with ADD and other one with French company.. All electronic systems will be designed and produced by Aselsan and gun will be produced by MKE (it is not clear if gun will be licenced production or not) which are state owned companies…
So, the above article is not exact or they knew something we don't know..
S.Korean defence minister will be in Ankara next week, we will see the latest developments..
As for K1, I think it could be possible depends on to pricing, since it is definitly a better tank than crappy M-48s and M-60s..Our Aselsan has state of art Fire Control Kits which can be applied to any tank… Turkey has the second big military in Nato in numbers and wanna maintain numerous superiority while increasing quality..
There is also a rumor that you can find interesting :
"The Turkish General Staff requested to the South Korean government to get ready to withdraw its 3,500 troops from northern Iraq because the Turkish military was preparing for an operation in the region. South Korean Defence Minister Jang-Soo Kim is about to visit Ankara immediatly"
As for war with USA, no it won't happen, Turkey and USA has a large shared interests from Afghanistan to Sudan, from central Asia to Balkan and Caucasaus peninsula, Turkey is the key country for many US interests …. So I don't think there would be a military clash, hence USA don't have military in the north of Iraq, and we have now 250.000 heavily armed troops in the border awaiting order.. but there could be a higher political tension over kurdish issue..
Cheers
There you go.
Like I said, it's as good as a "done deal".
And GI, I don't know why you're so concerned about Korea's exporting of high tech weapons to other countries. It's not just yesterday that Korea has been selling weaponry, so look at the past record. Military sales to countries like Malaysia, Phillipines, Turkey, Taiwan, etc. Do you see any dangerous pattern here?
Tom,
Like I said before Korea is making a big move to become an international arms supplier, so far they aren't selling system to any country that would be controversial. However, when the market dries up will they turn to nations like Iran to try and sell weaponry to? We won't know this for years but it will be interesting to see what happens.
AloneWolf,
Thanks again for the great information. The Korean unit in Irbil is supposed to withdraw by 2008. So they will be gone soon enough. Let's hope nothing stupid happens over Kurdistan.
“Chances are very high that South Korea could win the bid because Turkey’s Army and military officials trust our defense technologies more than those of France,’’
Bullshit. The reason the Turks would pick the Koreans over the French has to do with politics, clear and simple. The relations between France and Turkey have been seriously strained since the French parliament declared that denying the Armenian genocide was a crime.
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Most sources state that the Korean XK-2 know-how transfer to Turkey covers armor technology as well. Will that include the explosive reactive tiles with VIRSS or only the basic composite armor? And, if the Turkish firm is going to be working on the FCS and other electronics, then what's the use for the Korean IVIS C4I? The very concept of a C4I is pretty nation-specific anyway, and Turkey is definitely capable of integrating its own miliatary information systems. Technological capability is there. In the past, they even sold Korea full flight simulators.
Also, is XAV being proposed as part of the package?
“The Turkish General Staff requested to the South Korean government to get ready to withdraw its 3,500 troops from northern Iraq because the Turkish military was preparing for an operation in the region. South Korean Defence Minister Jang-Soo Kim is about to visit Ankara immediatly”
I definitly belive that the Koreans would sell out the Kurds. But Koreans are very interested in stealing any resources too. I think Korea will go with whatever side can offer her more gold.
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The Reasons for the Korean Tank Deal:
1) Technology Transfer
Turkey developed a small defense industry in the past 20 years but some essential defense technology items are to time & money consuming to invented by yourself – so you try to "buy" or "license" the technology to save time/money.
The USA does not support 100% technology transfer to turkey – happened with the Bell AH-1Z chopper deal…where the USA didnt want to transfer radar, firing & mission computer and even forbidden the later modification of the choppers with "turkish technology developments". Italy offered 100% technology transfer with the Augusta Mangusta A129 attack chopper but lately the producer of the chopper engines (us company) forbidden italy to transfer the engine technology. The other point is that the leclerc tank was never an option for turkey………the german leopard 2A6ex was the only real deal for turkey.
The price of the korean XK2 seems high compared 8,5 Mio Dollar to the 6 Mio Dollar of the Leo 2 or the 5 Mio of the M1 Abraham A1 but keep in mind……the price is for FULL technology transfer. You are buying/licensing the software code, patents and so on.
But the Korean XK2 deal is not just a transfer…..korea and turkey will work together to implement turkish defense technology into the XK2 to create the turkish version "Altay MBT".
It seems that standard communication, IR sensors, Engine, mission computer and other parts will be turkish developments. C4, ABC protection, armour, firing computer and other parts will be korean or modified versions.
The cannon is still based on the german rheinmetall 120mm L55 technology which is also used in the M1A2, Leo 2, Merkava 4, XK2 and so on. The best cannon outthere.
Other Reasons:
2) France did illegally aclaimed turkey of the so-called armenian genocide even international law states that such acclaims can not be stated without a international court or tribunal. Even the UK did such a tribunal in the year 1918 and dropped the charges against the former imperial state of the ottomans. France uses every 4 years the so-called armenian card in the elections and lately to keep turkey out of the EU.
Because of the same reason France was canceled out of the 2 times of bidding for the turkish surveillance spy-sat projekt "gökturk" and the fregate project.
3) Germany
Even many politicans and the german defense industry want to sell the turks the Leo 2 with full technology transfer (even just the version 2A5) – the other politicians and the media uses the "kurdish problem" as a "no-go" even a MBT is usually not used against guerillas & terrorists………light APC or AV are the better choice. So, the germans dropped out …..BUT it seems that turkey gets the MTU Engine for the XK2 as full technology transfer from germany.
4) Connection Turkey and Korea
Since the korean war the ties between turkey and korea are very good. Almost 15 000 turkish soldiers served in korea with the UN forces and the turkish brigade (7000men) fought in the korean war. Therefore turks have a very good reputation in korea. Teakwondo is also almost a national sport in turkey…..brought back with turkish soldiers from korea. Samsung and LG are very succesfull brands in turkey and the quality of korean products is highly regarded in turkey.
The korean language and the turkish language are settled in the same language tree of the Altaic-mongol languages. They are different branches in this tree but somehow related….like hungarian and finnish language which are also far related with the turkish language.
So, enough chitty chat. Hope my informations helped!
cheers
Alan
Alan, great comment. Korea has been working hard to develop their defense industry and full technology transfer may be the thing they are currently using to make themselves stand out from their competitors. Since you know a lot about Turkey and Korea you might find this posting I did on Tahsin Yazici of interest:
http://rokdrop.com/2008/03/10/heroes-of-the-korea…