Here is some more Korean media criticism about the US-ROK cost sharing talks from Oh Young-jin in the Korea Times:
U.S. Forces Korea (USFK) is under attack not by enemy but by its own commander-in-chief, President Donald Trump.
Trump is prioritizing the size of the bill host Korea pays toward upkeep and is indulging himself in an unwarranted bromance with the head of the enemy.
The risk is bringing confusion to the mission and raison d’etre of the peacekeepers and freedom fighters who have stood ready for decades to throw down their lives to help protect Koreans from North Korean invasions and assert a U.S.-led balance of power in the region where interests of big powers often clash. So a blow to the USFK credibility is feared.
Already, Trump’s first defense secretary, James Mattis, the soldier of the soldiers, called it quits over Trump’s acts of belittling the allies, calling them freeloaders being piggybacked by the U.S., and his boss’s readiness to sleep with enemies like the North’s young dictator Kim Jong-un and Russia’s Vladimir Putin.
One commentator wondered aloud whether if Korea pays what the U.S. reportedly demands, it would make GIs mercenaries that work for money with no regard to common cause and purpose.
First of all hardly any soldier in USFK even knows or cares about the on going US-ROK cost sharing talks. Secondly if and when a new deal is struck it is not like USFK soldiers are getting a cut from whatever the Korean side pays.
Regardless of how much Korea pays it makes absolutely no difference to the average USFK soldier and thus it is total hyperbole to claim that USFK soldiers would begin feeling like mercenaries because the ROK pays more for the upkeep of the alliance.
This leaflet is being put up all over in Seoul, and being distributed to citizens indiscriminately by "Baekdu Guards," a pro-North Korean leftist group. The targets are freedom fighters including Taegukgi rally participants. pic.twitter.com/KXhI9a7Whn
US diplomat Tom Malinowski has a good read in Politico that is long but worth reading which includes a number of ideas I have advocated for over the years:
Tom Malinowski
At my Senate confirmation hearing a few years ago, I made a promise to the panel deciding my fate: never to use the phrase “there are no good options.” After all, if there were obvious solutions to the hardest—and most interesting—problems we face in the world, they would already have been found. Our job in the U.S. government—I served in the State Department as an assistant secretary focused on human rights—was not to make excuses in such situations, but to use whatever inherently limited tools we had to try to make things better, and to avoid making them worse.
North Korea tests this proposition like nothing else. Since its latest provocative missile test, thoughtful observers have pointed out that neither sanctions nor diplomacy are likely to dissuade Kim Jong Un from deploying nuclear weapons that can reach the United States, that we cannot depend on China to stop him for us, but that the alternative of a military strike on North Korea could cause a war that would lay waste to our ally South Korea. When it comes to North Korea, the phrase “there are no good options” has become a mantra. [Politico]
Here is the part I have been advocating for, for many years, to aggressively fight the information war within North Korea:
Flood the zone with information: In the last year of the Obama administration, we increased our funding for getting information to North Koreans. But the State Department still allocates less then $3 million for this effort, and the Trump administration’s first budget request did not mention it. Congress should work with the administration to create a well-funded, dedicated program. The State Department should also continue efforts we began under Obama to enlist like-minded allies in Europe and Asia to back these efforts, and tech companies to find creative ways for North Koreans to share information safely. More funding should also go to scholarships for North Korean defectors, so that they will be ready to help their people if the North opens up.
Many North Korean defectors have said that they decision to defect was influenced by defector radio stations. Kang Chol-hwan who wrote the book Aquariums of Pyongyang is probably the most famous defector who said defector radio influenced his decision to leave North Korea.
The proliferation of USB and other media devices to bring in South Korean entertainment programming is another way the information war is being fought within North Korea.
Also as we have seen over the years nothing seems to infuriate the Kim regime more than the balloon launches from North Korean defectors. This fury is a sign that the anti-regime information smuggled into North Korea via these balloon launches is having an effect. The Kim regime even tried to assassinate the man behind the balloon launches to get them to stop.
Could you imagine what the regime’s reaction would be if cheap drones were developed that could beam down the Internet and television programming into North Korea? Imagine the resources the Kim regime would have to dedicate to combat this threat? That is why I think flooding the country with as much subversive information as possible will keep the regime on its heels and have to use many of its limited resources to combat it.
However the big question is if fighting the information war is enough to collapse the Kim regime? There is no silver bullet to ending the Kim family’s rule of North Korea which is why I think fighting the information war is not something that can singularly collapse the regime. It has to be part of a more comprehensive strategy which it seems no US administration has fully developed yet.
A group of activists are floating a large balloon containing leaflets from Paju, north of Seoul, on May 28, 2016, to denounce North Korea’s sudden water discharge from Imjin River, located just north of the western demilitarized zone. This photo is provided by Fighters for Free Korea, an activist group composed of North Korean defectors. (Yonhap)
It has been over a decade since Charles Hanley and the other AP writers were proven to have used lies to promote their narrative of 400 Korean civilians massacred under a railway bridge at No Gun Ri during the Korean War. Despite the debunking of their then Pulitzer Prize winning article Hanley continues to try and convince people that despite their article being false it is still true. His latest attempt to push this false narrative is in Japan Focus:
In the early weeks after North Korea’s invasion of the south on June 25, 1950, the fear that North Korean infiltrators lurked among southern refugees was fed by a few plausible reports and a torrent of rumors. Research at the U.S. National Archives by the Associated Press team that confirmed the No Gun Ri Massacre, both before and after their September 29, 1999 investigative report, found at least 16 documents in which high-ranking U.S. officers ordered or authorized the shooting of refugees in the war’s early months.
First of all I recommend for those who haven’t to read my prior posting that debunked the original AP article at the below link:
For those that have read my prior posting you would know that the AP’s document search at the National Archives did not confirm the No Gun Ri massacre at all. They cannot point to one document that confirms a massacre happened at No Gun Ri. Also notice how Hanley tries to make it out that their team uncovered the shooting of refugees during the Korean War when in fact the shooting of refugees was nothing new and could be read about in all the major historical publications from the Korean War. In fact it was published in the major media outlets during the time of the war as well. Here is an example in the New York Times:
“Fear of infiltrators led to the slaughter of hundreds of South Korean civilians, women as well as men, by some U.S. troops….”[xi]
Front Page of The New York Times
September 30, 1950 referring to events in July of 1950
So basically all they did was rehash old news and sensationalize it to an audience that had grown unfamiliar with the Korean War. Even one of the AP writers Choe Sang-hun admitted in the book “Korea Witness” that the goal was to create a “Korean My Lai”. Choe is the person who initially began the AP reporting into No Gun Ri and admitted that before he even interviewed one witness or even went to the scene he wrote a 150-word story pitch to submit to his AP editor. In the story pitch he used the advice of one of his colleagues to “hype” the story by likening No Gun Ri to a “Korean My Lai”. The AP writers knew that just reporting a story of civilians killed during the Korean War is not something that would grab anyone’s attention. They had to make No Gun Ri bigger than what is was, they had to make it like My Lai because that is what Pulitzer Prizes are made of.
Next in the Japan Focus article Hanley goes on to push another narrative that commanders gave orders to indiscriminately shoot the civilians under the bridge at No Gun Ri:
Such communications, showing a command readiness to kill civilians indiscriminately, pointed to a high likelihood that the No Gun Ri killings, carried out by the 7th Cavalry Regiment, were ordered or authorized by a chain of command. A half-century later, lest that case be made, Army investigators excluded 14 of those documents from their report and misrepresented two others.
Yet they cannot prove that commanders gave an order to indiscriminately shoot civilians at No Gun Ri. In fact here is what the officer who was at the scene that day in July of 1950 at No Gun Ri had to say about what happened:
However, retired Colonel Robert Carroll, who was a lieutenant on the scene at No Gun Ri tell CNN he is convinced no slaughter of civilians took place. He called the allegation, “selective and imaginative memory on the part of a lot of people.”
Carroll said the orders he received, while ordering troops to fire on anyone trying to cross the front lines, also urged discretion in the case of women and children.
“Use discretion was part of that order,” he said. “We used discretion. We did not fire automatic weapons. There was a few riflemen fired at them when they came around the bend. I stopped that. I personally stopped all the firing.”
“If there was any firing at those (people), it had to be later in the day, after I left. And somebody would have countermanded that order,” he said.
“We were not using our machine guns except when we were under attack because we were short on ammunition,” Carroll said. “We had not been resupplied; we had been moving, retreating, falling back for about a week. So that guy is dreaming.”
Interestingly enough in the original AP article Hanley made sure that Carroll’s eyewitness testimony of what happened that day was not fully included. Instead Hanley relied on witness testimony of people who were not even there that day or misquoted or flat out lied about what others had said. Here is a breakdown of the 12 GI witnesses the AP had in their original article and the status of their testimony once it was scrutinized:
1. Patterson: misquoted
2. Kerns: misquoted
3. Tinkler: suspect testimony
4. Hesselman: not there
5. Carroll: says no massacre occurred
6. Daily: not there
7. Flint: not there
8. Louis: not there
9. Steward: misquote
10. Lippincott: says no massacre occurred
11. Huff: heard civilians killed during the war not at No Gun Ri
12. George Preece: misquoted
Here comes Hanley’s next major talking point, there is a big government conspiracy to hide massacres that occurred during the Korean War:
In addition, the unit document that would have contained orders dealing with the No Gun Ri refugees, the 7th Cavalry journal for July 1950, is missing without explanation from the National Archives. The Army inquiry’s 2001 report concealed this fact, while claiming its investigators had reviewed all relevant documents and that no orders to shoot were issued at No Gun Ri.
Here is how the Army report of 2001 dealt with three important pieces of evidence, among many documents suppressed or distorted.
The document that Hanley is referring to is the Rogers Memo:
One of the key elements of the AP’s version of events is that an air strike was called in on the refugee column just prior to reaching the railway bridge at No Gun Ri. During the Pentagon investigation into the events of No Gun Ri a memorandum written by Colonel Turner Rogers who was a United States Air Force operations officer at the time of the Korean War was disclosed. In the memorandum Colonel Rogers expresses his concern to his superior officer about the Army requesting to the Air Force to strafe civilians dressed in white who the front line soldiers believed were disguised as North Korean soldiers. Colonel Rogers notes that the US Air Force has so far complied with Army requests to strafe specified refugee columns that were believe to be North Korean infiltrators. However, Colonel Rogers felt that strafing these suspected North Korean infiltrators was not something the Air Force should be doing and suggested that the Army should just shoot suspected North Korean infiltrators themselves. Interestingly enough the now retired Major General Turner Rogers does not remember this memorandum and could not provide any additional details about it to the Pentagon Review team that investigated the No Gun Ri tragedy. Also of note is that the document is not signed by Colonel Rogers, it just has his signature block. It may have drafted by a subordinate officer and for whatever reason was never signed by the Colonel thus why he does not remember it.
However, Hanley like he does in the Japan Focus article likes to claim that since the Rogers Memo was not in the Pentagon Report that the Army was covering it up as part of the wider conspiracy to hide the civilian killings during the Korean War. The only problem with this theory is that the Pentagon report included a memorandum written by the Navy that documented a strafing of Korean refuges by naval aircraft dispatched from the aircraft carrier the USS Valley Forge:
Several of fifteen to twenty people dressed in white were sighted. The first group was strafed in accordance with information received from the Army that groups of more than eight to ten people were to be considered troops, and were to be attacked. Since the first pass indicated that the people seemed to be civilians, other groups were investigated by non-firing runs.No Gun Ri Review, (Department of the Army Inspector General, January 2001), Chapter 3 Combat Operations in July 1950, Page 98
Some cover up. Likely the Rogers memo may not have been included because it was simply overlooked in the mountains of documents the reviewers had to pour through or was discarded due to the fact it was not signed. Notice how in the Japan Focus article Hanley made sure the document image was cropped so that readers could not see that the document wasn’t signed. However, all of this is irrelevant because it was widely known that civilians were strafed during the Korean War and the Pentagon included documented evidence that this happened in their report. What is relevant is that there is no evidence of a strafing ever happening at No Gun Ri which is something Hanley does not want to talk about. Claimants claimed that the 7th Cavalry soldiers intentionally called in an airstrike on them. There is only one problem with this, the 7th Cavalry did not have the necessary radios to even call in an air strike. In fact the only air strike in the No Gun Ri area occurred on July 27th, which was one day after the refugees say they were strafed. However, this air strike on the 27th was when the 7th Cavalry headquarters was strafed. This strafing of the 7th Cavalry caused their commander to request an Air Force Tactical Air Control Party (TACP) to the regiment who had the necessary radios to talk to the pilots in order to avoid any further strafings of the 7th Cavalry. The below air mission chart shows how there were no airstrike around No Gun Ri on July 26, 1950 as claimed:
The Korean claimants also claim they were bombed. During an interview with a Korean reporter No Gun Ri witness Chung Gu-shik said the refugee column was bombed by a fighter jet, approximately 100 people and many animals were blown to pieces, and that the railway was bent like “steel chopsticks”. He goes on to say the bombing lasted for a total of 20 minutes. American and Korean imagery analysts that reviewed aerial footage of No Gun Ri taken one week after the incident found no signs of rails bent like “steel chopsticks”, no bomb craters, no left over refugee items, no dead animals, and most importantly no dead bodies.
Can you spot the 400 dead bodies? Korean and American imagery analysts could not either.
Back to the Air Force and Naval memorandums, it is important to realize they were both dated July 25, 1950. The Naval and Air Force officers that coordinated air operations during the early days of the Korean War worked together in the same Joint Operations Center (JOC). Obviously the requests from the Army to strafe civilians that were alleged to be North Korean infiltrators had sparked much debate with the JOC between the Air Force and Navy on July 25th based on the memos. These concerns most likely got back to the 8th Army headquarters where more pressure was mounted to come up with a suitable policy for the massive refugee crisis. Eighth Army responded with the July 26th refugee control order to all its subordinate units that was also importantly approved of by the South Korean government. The Eighth Army policy either directly or indirectly took the advice of Colonel Rogers to have the US Army decide whether to shoot suspected North Korean infiltrators and not the Air Force. However, unlike Hanley’s claims of orders to indiscriminately shoot civilians, the refugee policy created a system where the Korean police would consolidate care for and move the refugees through friendly lines at set times every day and forbid any movement of civilians at night. Leaflets were dropped to spread this information to include the Korean police going in and evacuating villages.
Nowhere in this order was there ever any orders to indiscriminately kill refugees as the AP writers would lead you to believe. The order was to not permit civilians to cross battle lines who were not following the established procedures. Hanley goes on to discuss another document he regular brings up as proof of orders to shoot refugees:
Major General William B. Kean, commander of the 25th Infantry Division, which held the front line to the right of the 1st Cavalry Division, the division responsible for No Gun Ri, issued an order to all his units dated July 27, 1950, saying civilians were to have been evacuated from the war zone and therefore “all civilians seen in this area are to be considered as enemy and action taken accordingly.”
Again, the Army investigators of 2001 had to grapple with this explosive document, since it had been reported in the original AP story on No Gun Ri. And so they simply chose to write of this order, “There is nothing to suggest any summary measures were considered against refugees.”They suggested that when Kean said civilians should be treated as enemy, he meant front-line combat troops should “arrest” this supposed enemy, not shoot him—an implausible scenario in the midst of a shooting war.
Once again it is important to read the whole document and understand the context of when it was published:
By reading the whole the whole document you gain the context of why the order by General Kean was given in the first place. Actions against refugees was only going to be taken after the Korean National Police had cleared the area and reported back to General Kean that the area had been evacuated. Only after that were people found in the area declared hostile. The order does not say shoot refugees, but leaves the action that needs to be taken to stop the infiltration of refugees to the commanders on the ground. General Kean’s order was completely in line with the refugee policy issued by Eighth Army the day prior that was approved by both the Korean and American governments.
The next document that Hanley writes about in his Japan Focus article is the Muccio Letter:
Perhaps the most important document excluded from the U.S. Army’s 300-page No Gun Ri Review was a U.S. Embassy communication with Washington that sat unnoticed for decades at the National Archives. In 2005, American historian Sahr Conway-Lanz reported his discovery of this document, a letter from the U.S. ambassador to South Korea in 1950, John J. Muccio, to Dean Rusk, then-assistant secretary of state for Far Eastern affairs, dated July 26, 1950, the day the killings began at No Gun Ri.11 In it, Muccio reported to Rusk on a meeting that took place the previous evening among American and South Korean officials, military and civilian, to formulate a plan for handling refugees.
He wrote that the South Korean refugee problem “has developed aspects of a serious and even critical military nature.” Disguised North Korean soldiers had been infiltrating American lines via refugee columns, he said, and “naturally, the Army is determined to end this threat.” At the meeting, he wrote, “the following decisions were made: 1. Leaflet drops will be made north of U.S. lines warning the people not to proceed south, that they risk being fired upon if they do so. If refugees do appear from north of U.S. lines they will receive warning shots, and if they then persist in advancing they will be shot.” The ambassador said he was writing Rusk “in view of the possibility of repercussions in the United States” from such deadly U.S. tactics.
The letter stands as a clear statement of a theater-wide U.S. policy to open fire on approaching refugees. It also shows this policy was known to upper ranks of the U.S. government in Washington.
Here is the full text of the Muccio Letter:
PERSONAL-CONFIDENTIAL
The Foreign Service of the United States of America
American Embassy
July 26, 1950
Dear Dean: The refugee problem has developed aspects of a serious and even critical military nature, aside from the welfare aspects. Necessarily, decisions are being made by the military in regard to it, and in view of the possibility of repercussions in the United States from the effectuation of these decisions, I have thought it desirable to inform you of them.
The enemy has used the refugees to his advantage in many ways: by forcing them south and so clogging the roads as to interfere with military movements; by using them as a channel for infiltration of agents; and most dangerous of all by disguising their own troops as refugees, who after passing through our lines proceed, after dark, to produce hidden weapons, and then attack our units from the rear. Too often such attacks have been devastatingly successful. Such infiltrations had a considerable part in the defeat of the 24th Division at Taejon.
Naturally, the Army is determined to end this threat. Yesterday evening a meeting was arranged, by 8th Army HQ request, at the office of the Home Minister at the temporary Capitol. G-1, G-2, Provost Marshall, CIC, the Embassy, the Home and Social Affairs Ministries, and the Director National Police. The following decisions were made:
Leaflet drops will be made north of US lines banning the people not to proceed south, that they risk being fired upon if they do so. If refugees do appear from north of US lines they will receive warning shots, and if they then persist in advancing they will be shot.
Leaflet drops and oral warning by police within US combat zone will be made to the effect that no one can move south unless ordered, and then only under police control, that all movement of Korean civilians must end at sunset or those moving will risk being shot when dark comes.
Should the local tactical commander consider it essential to evacuate a given sector he will notify the police liaison officers attached to his HQ, who through the area Korean National Police will notify the inhabitants, and start them southward under police control on specified minor roads. No one will be permitted to move unless police notify them, and those further south not notified will be required to stay put.
Refugee groups must stop at sunset, and not move again until daylight. Police will establish check points to catch enemy agents; subsequently Social Ministry will be prepared to care for, and direct refugees to camps or other areas.
No mass movements unless police controlled will be permitted. Individual movements will be subject to police checks at numerous points.
In all cities, towns curfew will be at 9 p.m., with effective enforcement at 10 p.m. Any unauthorized person on streets after 10 p.m. is to be arrested, and carefully examined. The last item is already in effect.
Sincerely,
John J. Muccio
Nowhere in the Muccio Letter are there any concerns about war crimes, Geneva Convention, or anything else that Hanley wants readers to believe. Ambassador Muccio was simply doing his job by notifying the State Department about the Eighth Army refugee policy that had already been disseminated that day across the theater. The newsworthiness of this letter is that it shines a light on why the Eighth Army refugee policy was created in the first place. The letter clearly states that the policy was established in response to the North Korean violations of the laws of war by using soldiers dressed as civilians to infiltrate into the rear areas of the 24th Infantry Division. Muccio says himself that the North Korean tactics played a “considerable part in the defeat of the 24th Division at Taejon”. This destruction of the 24th Infantry Division at Taejon is what led to the collapse of the US war effort in the early days of the Korean War. Interestingly enough nowhere in Hanley’s article is the destruction of the 24th Division mentioned.
What else Muccio provides insight into is that the refugee handling order was not something that was taken lightly. The order was only implemented after a meeting at the Eighth Army headquarters that included officials from the Korean government, US Embassy officials, and the Director of the Korean National Police. All these elements agreed to the refugee control order and was not something that was created by the U.S. military on a whim so they did not have to deal with the refugees. It was in fact a very thoroughly thought out policy that was only issued after close consultation with elements of the Korean government. Despite the fact that the Korean government played a key role in this refugee order, Hanley has long down played this fact. What Hanley will never down play is his fixation on a massive government conspiracy:
In 2006, under pressure for an explanation from the South Korean government, the Army acknowledged that its investigators of 1999-2001 had seen the Muccio letter, but it claimed they dismissed it as unimportant because it “outlined a proposed policy,” not an approved one – an argument that defied the plain English of the letter, which said the policy of shooting approaching refugees was among “decisions made.“ In his book Collateral Damage (2006), Conway-Lanz attests to the letter’s crucial importance, writing that “with this additional piece of evidence, the Pentagon report’s interpretation (of No Gun Ri) becomes difficult to sustain” – that is, its conclusion that the refugee killings were “not deliberate” became ever more untenable.
The Muccio Letter however offers nothing new. As I already mentioned all it did was summarize the points from the 8th Army refugee control order that had already been published years prior. If anything the Army would have wanted this letter included in the Pentagon report because it further establishes the rationale behind why the 8th Army issued their refugee control order in the first place; because of the massive infiltration of North Korean soldiers disguised as refugees that led to the destruction of the 24th Division. The letter also makes it quite clear that this policy was methodically thought out in complete consultation with the South Korean government and military which agreed fully to the recommendations.
Hanley concludes his Japan Focus article by highlighting the opening of the No Gun Ri Peace Park:
Although the truth of mid-1950 South Korea and No Gun Ri was whitewashed and distorted at every turn in 2001 in Washington, DC, it has now found a home in the two-story, 20,365-square-foot memorial museum and its surrounding three-year-old No Gun Ri Peace Park, a gently landscaped place of arched bridges and flowered walkways, stretching from the bullet-pocked railroad underpasses of 1950, through a garden of powerfully evocative sculptures bearing such titles as “Ordeal” and “Searching for Hope,” to the bottom of a path leading to a hilltop cemetery and the graves of No Gun Ri victims, marked “1950-7-26.”
I actually have no problem with this park as long as it is depicting an accurate interpretation of history. I have not had a chance to visit it yet, but I eventually will so I won’t comment on this yet, but I would be interested in feedback from people who have. However, I do like this parting shot at me and other critics of Hanley’s reporting:
Two years after the Army’s deceitful report, a Pentagon-affiliated publisher issued an Army apologist’s polemic on No Gun Ri, an often-incoherent book packed with disinformation. In the English-language Wikipedia, the “No Gun Ri Massacre” article became a Wikipedic free-for-all between jingoistic denialists and the truth. Finally, ironically around the time the Korean park was opened in 2011, the U.S. Defense Department purged from its website the Army’s investigative report, further pushing No Gun Ri toward official oblivion.
The book he is referring to is then Lieutenant Colonel Robert Bateman’s book “No Gun Ri: A Military History of the Korean War Incident.” This book greatly destroyed the credibility of the original AP article which caused Hanley to begin a vicious feud with Bateman which continues by regularly taking shots at him like you see in this latest Japan Focus article. In fact Bateman has accused Hanley of even trying to stop the publication of his book. It is ironic that a journalist tried so hard to stop free speech. Then the description “denialists” I find quite humorous because he is evoking the term for people who bring up legitimate questions about global warming. One of Hanley’s favorite tactics since he cannot debate facts is that he relies on personal attacks to silence critics just like the global warming crowd. So it is only fitting that in recent years Hanley has also become a big media promoter for global warming.
Much like with global warming, No Gun Ri is something that did happen. However, like global warming what did happen at No Gun Ri has been sensationalized to make it more than what it was. No Gun Ri was not the “Korean My Lai” the AP journalists were so eager to create. The facts show that US soldiers were on the retreat and wary of North Korean infiltrators. Witness testimony from people who were there say that warning shots were fired over the top of the refugees in order to prevent them from advancing toward their frontline. This firing over the refugees may have been interpreted by the gunmen within the column as being directed towards them and they fired back which ended up causing US soldiers to fire directly into the refugee column. The warning shots could have also caused other soldiers on the frontline unaware of what was going on to think they were being fired at. Other veteran witness statements, Soviet shell casings found underneath the bridge, unit supply records showing Soviet weapons turned into the 7th Cavalry supply personnel, and prior documented instances of civilian clothed guerrilla fighters engaging US troops makes for a strong case that there could have been gun men within the refugee column.
If there were gunmen who were they? Were they disguised North Korean soldiers? Probably not. It is more likely they were South Korean communist guerrillas. Before the Korean War began the Yongdong area of South Korea was a known communist guerrilla hide out. US veteran witnesses say the gun men they found dead underneath the bridge wore no uniforms. Veteran also say that the number of refugees killed underneath the bridge from the brief firing numbered to about 4-9 killed with more wounded. It is impossible to know but some of those wounded could have died later on increasing the death toll. Determining the exact death toll is impossible but it is not the 400 or simply “hundreds” as the AP claims. This was confirmed when imagery analysts looked at aerial footage a week after the shooting and could find no evidence of bodies being dragged away, stacked under the bridge, or buried in mass graves. There was also no evidence of an airstrike on July 26th as well.
Despite these facts the sensationalization of the No Gun Ri tragedy continues on as an entire generation of Korean War soldiers continue to be labeled as war criminals by people like Charles Hanley. The Korean War has long been known as the “Forgotten War” however it has quickly become what I like to call the “Rewritten War” that began with the false narrative perpetuated by the AP’s original No Gun Ri reporting. There are many tragedies from the Korean War and the continuing sliming of the US military veterans who fought in it is one of them.
For most GI’s serving in Korea right now the term the Western Corridor is probably something they have never even heard of before since the camps in the Western Corridor all closed down back in 2005. However, for those who served on these installations the memories of these camps will never die. The Western Corridor refers to the western sector of military camps in the 2nd Infantry Division area of operations just to the north of Seoul. The Western Corridor camps are located to the west of the main US military hubs in Dongducheon and Uijongbu near the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) that separates North from South Korea.
Camp Garry Owen
These camps in the Western Corridor housed the first line of American units that were tasked with slowing down any North Korean attack. The main unit tasked with this responsibility was the 4-7 Cavalry Regiment located at the now closed Camp Garry Owen:
Camp Garry Owen is named after an old Irish dance song that General George Custer liked after hearing some of his Irish troops singing it and he made it the official song of the 7th Cavalry Regiment. You can read more about the history of Garry Owen at the 7th Cavalry Regiment website. This camp wasn’t always called Garry Owen and in fact has gone through three name changes. It was first called Camp Rice at the time the camp was first established in 1951 during the Korean War. The land where the camp was built was originally an apple orchard. After the camp was built it was used as the headquarters for the United Nations Command (UNC) Military Armistice Conference Delegation. The UNC at the time was conducting armistice negotiations with the North Koreans and Chinese in the Pamunjom area. Two years later on July 27, 1953 UNC Commander General Mark W. Clark signed the Armistice Agreement ending the war in the Camp Rice theater. The theater was demolished in the 1970′s along with the camp changing its name to Camp Pelham in honor of a prominent Civil War artilleryman. It wasn’t until the 1980′s that the name Garry Owen would become the third and final name for the camp.
Here are the names of some of the units that have called Camp Garry Owen home: the 69th Field Artillery Battalion, 1st Marine Division (which became 49th Field Artillery Battalion, 7th Infantry Division); 13th Field Artillery, 24th Infantry Division; 2nd Battalion, 19th Field Artillery Regiment; and 5th Battalion, 82nd Field Artillery Regiment; 1st Battalion, 4th Artillery Regiment; E Company, 2nd Engineers Battalion; and 5th Squadron, 17th Cavalry Regiment, which became the 4-7 Cavalry Regiment. The 4-7 Cav was the last unit to call Camp Garry Owen home before closing down the camp in 2004 and relocating to Camp Hovey.
The ville right adjacent to Camp Garry Owen is the small town of Seonyu-ri:
However, the ville was known to the soldiers as Yonjugol. Many of the shops of Yonjugol used to be oriented towards the tastes of the US military, but are now today converted to more conventional businesses:
However, some signs of the former US military presence in the town are still visible:
I have never spent any time in the Camp Garry Owen ville, but from what I have heard the Paradise Club was one of the big places to take newcomers. The challenge was for the new comer to make it to the back door of the club without getting tackled by one of the girls that worked there.
Finally here is a video posted on YouTube showing all the posts buildings and the ville area before the camp closed in 2004 and I especially recommend reading all the comments from people sharing their memories about the camp:
If you have any memories about your time at Camp Garry Owen feel free to share them in the comments section as well.
Camp Stanton
The military base where the 4-7 Cavs helicopters were stationed was at the small Camp Stanton. The camp was one of the smallest in South Korea with it only being home to about 160 soldiers. Camp Stanton was divided in two by the main road through the area. One side of the camp the actual base camp and the other side is where helicopters are parked:
The camp is named after 1st Lieutenant John B. Stanton. In March 1952, during the Korean War, 1st Lt. Stanton of the 15th Aviation Company, 24th Infantry Division was killed in action after crashing his aircraft for the third time during the Korean War. His final crash was a midair collision between his Ryan Avian observation airplane and a P-51 Mustang fighter.Besides being the home of aviation units the camp was also once the home of the 2/61st Air Defense Artillery Battalion. When the camp closed in 2004 it was home to 16 Kiowa helicopters that flew in support of the 4-7 Cav.
There isn’t much left of Camp Stanton today other than the walkway bridge used to cross from the main camp over to airfield:
As you can see, today the camp has been completely leveled after it was turned over to the South Korean government:
Just down the road from Camp Garry Owen is Camp Giant:
Camp Giant was supposedly named in 1969 by Korean civilian engineers in honor of a popular American movie at the time in Korea called “Giant“. Here is an image of the camp back in 1971:
Camp Giant is very small and can house only about one company of soldiers. The last unit to occupy the camp before it closed in 2004 was A Company 1-506 Infantry Regiment that was part of the 2nd Infantry Division 2nd Brigade Combat Team that deployed to Iraq that year. Here are pictures of what the now closed out front gate of the camp looks like today:
Here is an overview of what the camp looks like today:
Here is a picture of the barracks on the camp:
As can be seen in the below picture, many of the quonset huts from the 1971 photograph are still existent today on the camp:
Here is a picture of the post’s small gym:
As far as a ville the soldiers at the camp could walk over to Yonjugol since it is located so close to Camp Garry Owen.
Camp Howze
The next major camp in the Western Corridor is Camp Howze:
The scenic little valley where Camp Howze is located was once a farm owned by the Cho family. In 1953 the family was relocated when the US Marines made the farm their headquarters:
After the Marines left Korea the camp was taken over by the 24th Infantry Division from 1955-1957. It was during this time period that the quonset huts were first built on the camp. Many of these quonset huts would continue to be used by tenets units on the camp until the day Camp Howze closed. In 1957 the camp was transferred over to the 1st Cavalry Division who named the camp after the unit’s first division commander and Medal of Honor recipient Major General Robert L. Howze. The 1st Cav used the camp as its division headquarters. In 1965 the 1st Cavalry Division units in South Korea were redesignated the 2nd Infantry Division, which continued to use the camp as a division headquarters.
Here is a 1971 aerial image of Camp Howze:
The 2nd Infantry Division headquarters would move to Camp Casey in 1971 and Engineer units would then occupy the camp instead. The camp would remain an Engineer post until its closing in 2004. The last units to call the camp home was the 44th Engineer Battalion which deployed to Iraq and the headquarters for the 2nd Engineer Brigade which would deactivate in 2005. On a side note the last Engineer Brigade Commander to command the camp was Colonel “Rock” Donahue who was quite the character for those of us who knew him.
Anyway here is a 2004 picture of the Camp Howze Chapel before closing that year:
Here is an image of the now closed out Camp Howze front gate today;
I have never been to the Camp Howze ville so I really don’t know anything about the place, however judging by these photographs the economic effect of the base closing is quite evident:
Camp Edwards is just up the road from Camp Howze and is named after the Korean War Medal of Honor awardee Sergeant First Class Junior Edwards.
Like its larger camp down the road Camp Edwards was home over the year to Engineer units. Here is a 1971 image of the front gate of Camp Edwards:
From the same website comes this aerial view of Camp Edwards as well:
Here is the view of the now closed out front gate of the camp today:
The last unit to call Camp Edwards home was the 82nd Engineer Company, which redeployed off the peninsula to Hawaii. Interestingly enough after arriving in Hawaii an accident involving the unit led to the largest traffic back up in Hawaiian history known as “Black Tuesday”.
Camp Beard
The final camp profiled is Camp Beard, which is also known as RC #1:
Camp Beard is located in a valley halfway between Camp Garry Owen and Camp Stanton. I mention Camp Beard simply because it is an example of many of the camps in the Western Corridor that were closed out long before the 2004 close out of all the camps in the Western Corridor. Here is a 1968 image of the front gate of Camp Beard which was then home to the 2-72 Armor Regiment:
I could not locate the exact date when Camp Beard closed, but I think it was in the 1970′s. Here is what remains of the camp today:
Conclusion
When driving around the 2ID area, many old camps, which are now mostly ROK Army compounds can still be seen. It would be an interesting project to identify and take photographs of all these old camps. For now though this and all my prior postings on USFK camps will have to do. If any one has any pictures of the old camps they want to share feel free to post them in the ROK Drop Forums.
I’ve been to a few USFK bases, and most of the buildings were barracks for soldiers and other facilities for those who work and live on base. They should let some of these anti-Americans on base. I imagine a few would become disillusioned with the movement given the chance to have the underwhelming experience of peeking behind the walls.
I don’t think that would help in the slightest. Ive dealt with these sorts of people over the years and there is no reasoning with them. If you let them tour a post, they would still swear there was polluted land in areas they were denied access (even if they were not denied access). They just hate America. Simple as that…
I don’t know when the ADA battalion was re-flagged, but I do know that in 1992 Camp Stanton had HQ/A 5-5 ADA and D/5-5 ADA (Avenger), and that pedestrian overpass wasn’t there. My battery commander on Hovey hated having to go to the Western Corridor for weekly command & staff call.
HHB/5-5 ADA moved to Camp Sears a few years later and D/5-5 ADA moved to Stanley. I believe that was in 1996. At the same time, C/5-5 ADA (BSFV) on Casey was re-designated A/5-5 ADA.
Yes, great memories! I find all this bittersweet. Its sad to see mt old stomping grounds fading into history but at the same time this is evidence showing Korea is ready to hold its own. That is a good thing.
I’m not going to pretend that I know even half as much as you do in this area, but it does seem to me that there is some merit to the claim that there has been environmental damage in the military bases. According to this article (Link), a meter-thick layer of diesel was covering the groundwater underneath Camp Edward. This is not some crackpot reporting — it is the most reputable newspaper in Korea reporting a site visit from the National Assembly.
I think part of the history is a little messed up,
The apple orchard is what became Camp Pelham and Camp Beard (RC 1) outside of Munsan, (Sonjuri was the ville next to the camps) with Pelham later changed its name to Garry Owen, and closed with that being its last naming.
Camp Rice, next to the ville of Yongugol, which was outside the town of Paju, became Garry Owen when the Cav added a second ground troop there, and the Air Cav troops moved from Camp Stanley up to Camp Mobile.
Before the Cav moved to Pelham and renamed it, there was an MP platoon there, which mainly patrolled the clubs in the local villes outside the camps in the western corridor
The American media is not much better, but Korea has NO “reputable” media outlets. The crazy cow bullshit just proves it.
With the billions and billions of dollars korea has made because of the stability offered by the presence of USFK, korea should clean it up.
American families and soldiers (consdired to be nothing more than “tripwires” to koreans) and the US taxpayers have suffered enough for ungrateful koreans like Tom to live in freedom.
Enough Americans have spilled their blood, enough American families have been torn apart and enough taxpayer’s money has been spent on korea. In general korea thwhich of course those who are anti-American for no reason, just aren’t worth it.
korea has to learn for once that you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Oh come on! Yeah Korean media outlets are biased, but most Koreans aren’t like Tom and these protesters. Just because they would prefer we weren’t there and get bent out of shape when some Joe gets drunk and does something stupid doesn’t mean they are unappreciative. From my own experience I’ve probably gotten about three Korean “thank you”s for every one Korean “Yankee go home!”.
Which Korean media outlets did you read during the mad cow protest? The three largest newspapers in Korea were all staunchly opposed to the mad cow protest, often calling it “hysteria”.
RC1 wasn’t closed until the rest of Western Corridor in 2000 or so.
When I was at Camp Page there were a lot of pollution stories in the 90s. So we took the media onto the base and showed them the HazMat collection areas and how the water flows through post, same as Yongsan, and the Army did not let anything get into the creek. Whatever was in the creek came from the other side of post. But, of course it didn’t help. Those that hated the U.S. would just find another reason.
I was also in Area 1 on the baseops side when we discovered a leak at Camp Howze. You wouldn’t believe the expense we went to for cleanup. We had to take all of the soil out and have it treated/disposed of, and not just the wet soil, and soil that ‘might’ have been contaminated.
All in all, from my experience, the U.S. does a better job of keeping the area clean than the Koreans themselves. Just go to any garage in Seoul and watch the mechanics let the oil and radiator fluid flow right into the street drain.
And why no pictures of Camp Greaves? Liberty Bell? Camp Kitty Hawk/Bonifas? You left out some significant locations and their units: The JSA Battalion, 1-9INF/1-506thINF
One of my friends served in Korea before around the late 1970’s-early 80’s and I specifically asked him about pollution. He said at that time it was really bad. Again, that’s 30 years ago now though.
I drove past Greaves about 5 months ago on a USO DMZ tour. Probably no pics because it is so hard to get pictures of it. You can’t just drive your car up to the gate. When I drove past it on the bus it looked like nothing had been torn down, it was overgrown with weeds though. I hear most of the other bases in the Western Corridor will turn into satellite campuses for some of the universities in Korea.
You have totally missed my point. My point is if we pollute we clean it up. How did you not read that?
The other point about the U.S. keeping it cleaner than Koreans isn’t that it’s ok to pollute, it’s that politics cloud the issue whether we keep it clean or not and there is a clear double standard.
Yeah! *giggle* I mean, er, *cough* Yeah!… Korea is ready to hold their own… I guess if you are referring to their ability to bribe the norK’s, then yeah, they can hold their own.they can
The camp pollution issue is much like the Yongsan water dumping incident. A few gallons of formaldehyde is dumped down the drain and processed through two water treatment plants before entering the Han River is twisted to wear Koreans are going to come down with cancer and responsible for causing a mutant to kill Korean civilians in a popular monster movie. While all this hysteria is going on the fact that Korean companies continue to dump far more dangerous chemicals and pollutants into the country’s rivers are ignored. I can remember in Uijongbu riding my bike along the river running through the city that flows to the Han and seeing ajushi with septic truck dumping raw sewage straight into the river. http://rokdrop.com/2008/03/18/gi-myths-the-2000-y…
This same phenomenon has happened with the camp pollution issue. These camps have been there since the Korean War and home to large military equipment and of course things like fuel leaks from underground storage tanks will happen. However, USFK long before any camp close outs has spent a lot of money on dealing with HAZMAT issues. HAZMAT has long been an area checked by command inspection programs. A lot of work not only in USFK but around the Army in general is put into HAZMAT. People in the Army realize this. However, the anti-US groups make absurd claims like people needing radiation suits to enter these camps while ignoring the what is going on right outside the gates of the camp. As mentioned before these environmental groups were trying to hold USFK responsible for pollution in canals running through the camps that are polluted long before they even enter the camp. I have long said the ROK government should release the environmental report. Lets see what their complaints are?
I will fully agree that the formaldehyde issue and the HAZMAT suit issue are bullshit. But seems to me that the fuel leak contamination issue is still real. I’m glad to hear that it is cleaned up though.
I think we’re missing the main point here about the pollution problem. It is irrelevant whether it exists or not as it is controlled by the SOFA agreement. The ORIGINAL agreement stated that the lands would be returned “as is” when returned to the ROK. When the first major revision was done 1990-1992, they started up “working groups” to work with the ROK government and environmental agencies on the pollution problem, but they never changed the wording in the SOFA agreement. They continued the eye-wash “working groups” until present, but the wording remains the same. The camps will be returned “as is.” The USFK — as a goodwill gesture (snark) — only cleans up environmental hazards that are immediate risks.
This is the crux. Even if the camps are screwed up to hell, the US LEGALLY does not have any responsibility. Yeah, the USFK looks like the bad guy in the ROK’s eyes, but the document that was signed in 1963 and lasted till the present gives the USFK the out.
BTW when I visited my cousin up at Camp Gary Owens many years ago the first thing I noticed (and smelled) was the pig farms right across the fence from the camp. The other side of the camp was a Korean garage with oil-soaked earth. The point is the ROK community surrounding the base had just as much fault for polluting the ground water over the years as Camp Gary Owens seemed to be in a sump-hole when compared to the surrounding community. Though the camp would have the majority of the blame, it is still irrelevant because of the SOFA wording. This is why the USFK simply walked away from the camps in the end because they knew the ROK could not take them to any international court and win.
Irrespective of SOFA, isn’t there value in having a moral high ground, leading by example, and not pissing off an ally? OJ Simpson was found LEGALLY not guilty, but he hardly came out looking like a saint in the process.
The big problem is the ROK environmental groups wanted to turn the project in Super-fund base cleanup programs that would have cost the US government BILLIONS of dollars — possibly into a trillion — because the ground water tables are not only on the camp but extend far outward into the communities. That towns grew up surrounding the camps (Yongsan is a prime example) the real estate costs to effect a Super-fund type operation would be astronomically high.
This pollution problem is NOT a USFK problem but a problem of international treaties and intergovernment actions. This is at the Presidential level and Congressional/National Assembly level discussion. The “moral high ground” is irrelevant when we start talking in terms of billions of dollars being thrown at a problem WHEN THE US IS NOT LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
My personal experience of how messy this gets comes from being an EMS Maintenance Supervisor at George AFB, CA (a superfund base) many decades ago as the pollution leeched its way down to the Belen River many miles away from the base. The cleanup in the ROK would be a bloody nightmare as cities grew up to surround the bases. If the US even hinted at accepting fiscal responsibility, the costs would sky-rocket immediately into BILLIONS of dollars.
The pollution problems do not have any simplistic solution. Remember that the ROK is one of the worst polluters themselves for dumping industrial toxic waste into rivers, green belts and rice fields. This is a massive problem that even Korea continues to stick its head in the ground and pretend it doesn’t exist.
Agreed that there is no simple solution. It’s just that one thing about this issue keep on nagging at me:
Insisting upon legal rights is not the best PR strategy — especially when the treaty was entered into when Korea had hardly any leverage and a dictator was running the country. I recently argued here that the Basic Treaty between Korea and Japan is of dubious legality because, among other things, it was entered into by a dictator who did not properly represent the country. I find SOFA to be much, much more valuable than the Basic Treaty so I don’t want to make the same argument with equal vigor, but it still nags at me.
Basically, if we (America) want to keep our billions (and I agree that billions could be at stake, although trillion sounds like a stretch,) we have to accept that we are going to piss off Koreans. In fact, I’m not sure if we have any right to tell Koreans not to get mad if we insist upon our legal rights.
I agree with you totally that the PR from the way that the US has been forced to handle the problem sucks. From the Korean point of view, it is totally abhorrent. I can sympathize with their outlook.
However, the reality is the ROK doesn’t want to pick up the tab — and the US refuses to pick up the tab. It is a no-win situation.
This is an on-going problem with noise pollution being the latest stick-in-the-eye for all ROKAF and USAF bases.
The ROK government killed their national level EPA in about 1995 and shuttled the responsibility to the provinces who in turn rammed it down the city level throats. The environmental protection in Korea is very weak. But here at Osan AB, the Pyeongtaek City government is constantly taking samples outside of the base of the water. The noise pollution levels are well-lit on a board near the railroad tracks.
The USFK will ALWAYS end up on the short end of the stick in the PR battle with the ROK over pollution. It’s not going away and there simply is nothing the USFK can do to improve their environmental image. The projects that worked in Europe and the states on DoD property will NOT work in Korea. SIGH…more bad news for the USFK.
I have noticed some mistakes in the text of your review of the old camps in the western corridor. I would be more than happy to provide you with the corrections if you’ll contact me.
Was that Camp Edwards (west) gate ? as I was working or playing Gate guard back in 71-72…lots of free overnight passes! lol curious! lots of fun riding bikes to turkey farm!
CP Stanton was HQ for the corridor ADA throughout the 70s and early 90s. Nice to see they finally got around to finding a safe way for the troopers to get down to the lower compound safely. We lost one, and had numerous close calls with the speeding traffic. If I may be so bold, seems to me the cleanest places in the ROK were the camps!! Eventhough I love Korea, and It’s culture, they have a long way to go regarding the environmental issues. Forgot how many times I saw the mixer trucks dumping raw sewage into the paddys.
I remember stepping outside the airport terminal in Seattle, WA to have a smoke after flying home from my tour in Korea. One of my first thoughts was that I could not believe how clean everything looked. I really think that the Korean protesters on the pollution issue need to come to the USA and have a look at how we live then compare that to the way their streets look, perhaps it might convince them to worry more about cleaning up their own lifestyles and to just be thankful UN and US forces put a stop to that nutcase up North.
Nice tour of memory lane. Was at Pelham. We had no MPs so one duty was to go to all the bars in town and stop fights on weekends. Remember the first day there and my visit to Paradise Club. Also there was a bar called Club USA or something. Had an American woman that owned it. If you have seen her, you remember her.
About the South Korean activists protesting about pollution on US bases in ROK, you have to remember who was in power in ROK when the protests started. Yes DJ (aka closet communist, or rather servant of Kim of North Korea) was in power. Casual observers of Korean affairs may not know but DJ didn’t have much love for US. It’s pretty apparent that he and his underlings were busy looking for mud to throw on US and USFK.
But you ask how could DJ and his underlings be so effective in rousing up the anti-US sentiment among ROK citizens? It’s called 9 PM news. Not too long ago in ROK, the 9PM TV news on the 3 channels (KBS1, KBS2, MBC which are all owned and operated by ROK govt) were the all powerful information outlet in ROK. They were the authoritative source of news in ROK and most people pretty much believed what they saw/heard. No internet and no cable TV as alternative. Some newspapers were more independent but not influential enough to overcome the power of TV news.
There were some stark changes in the 9PM News when Chun Doo-Hwan (gained power through military coup) was in power and when DJ became president. When Chun was president, the 9PM news ALWAYS started with what HE did that day. EVERYDAY. Many stuff were really trivial stuff.
However when DJ became president few years later, all 9PM news ended with clips of some kind of bad behavior by USFK. One I remember is when supposedly used medical equipment including used needles were dumped near an old, unused US radar installation. Another was when a neighborhood was repeatedly flooded in monsoon season because a US military camp nearby wouldn’t cooperate with requests for digging a deeper flood channel. The list went on and on. It’s possible that the ROK people were simply heady with the newly found freedom after the military dictatorship of Chun ended. But IMO, they happened because someone or some group coordinated to rouse people’s anger against USFK. When a populace keeps hearing same thing again and again, they will eventually believe it.
Even the mad cow disease was a hoax. It was found out later that the translation of one of the interviews was altered by the producer of the segment. One of the translator who translated an interview of an American came out and said what he translated was altered when it was actually aired. Had it not been altered, it wouldn’t have supported the argument of the ROK TV producers.
And you still ask how can that be? Well, it can happen because the ROK president appoints the heads of KBS1, KBS2 and MBC as they are govt entities. The previous head of one of the TV stations (not sure which one) appointed by President Roh (another US hater), practically had to be dragged out of his post. Not 100% sure but the heads of the TV stations report directly to the president of ROK.
And a response to 4/7 Medic, your perception of how clean/dirty ROK could be skewed depending on where you spent most of your time in ROK. Obviously the villes won’t be as clean as a major US airport. But when did you leave ROK? When I visited ROK recently, Seoul was pretty clean considering it was a city of 10 million. If you went back now, you’d be surprised.
I was at Camp Edwards (east) from 74-75 and I believe the ville was called Yong te ri, with the Tree Frog club which we frequented often. Lots of great memories:
– taking my platoon through a minefield of ‘bouncing betties’in the DMZ
-almost seeing my commission disappear as a flaming white phosphorus mortar round narrowly missed men and equipment after an exceptionally energetic EOD attempt
-hunting pheasant and deer in the DMZ
-getting knocked out for a half hour at the ‘combat basketball game’
Had a great time with best engineer company in the Army-Bravo Company, 2nd Engineers-Gunfighter’s Engineers
Was stationed at Greaves, Liberty Bell and Howze during my three years of duty in Korea from Nov. 86 to Nov. 89. You’ve mixed up the names of some of the villes, but other than that, a great read. Thanks.
Club Paradise was in Sonyuri, which sat between the gates of Camp Pelham and RC#4. Yongjugol was the ville outside the gates of Camp Gary Owen. Bongilcheon was outside the gates of Camp Howze (actually, up MSR 1 toward Edwards East and West was the real village of Bongilcheon, but we called the ville outside Howze’s gates Bongilcheon. That’s how it was in the late 80’s any way.
I used to live just down the alley and to the right of the 77 Club in your picture. Our first room we rented was in the basement of the landlord’s house and in the winter the only way to heat water for a “shower” was on the ondol heater.
I bought a camcorder when I was at Cp Howze back in 88-89. I uploaded a bunch of pics and began uploading Vids on the Cp Howze Facebook group, I also have lots of footage of JSA/Liberty Bell and even a little Greaves, Warrior Base and Freedom Bridge area. I also have footage of MSR-1 and the front of Edwards
nice….been awhile, I was there..assigned to 1/4 Fa Camp Pellam, and attached to maneuver unit 1/5 INF camp howze but spent most of my time with B company 1/5 inf at edwards east…alwayways wondered what came of these places as I heard we no longer had them…
I WAS IN CAMP PELHAM IN 1968 AND 1969 IT WAS CAMP PELHAM THEN I HAVE MOVIES OF THE FRONT GATE. WOW WHAT MEMORIES HARD TO BELIEVE HOW THINGS HAVE SINCE THEN THE PICTURES FROM 2004 LOOK ULTRA MODERN FROM WHEN I WAS THERE.
Duke of Yongugal is right. There are a couple errors. It was still called Camp Pelham when I was there in ’92. The MP Platoon was 3rd Plt, 2nd MP. They were moved to Camp Howze shortly before my arrival.Camp Howze was the headquarters of the 3rd Brigade (Inf). I still have pics of the 3rd brigade “spade” posted there in late ’92. 44th Engineer took over thru the summer/fall of that year. Awesome postings.
Was at Camp Garry Owen in Jan. ’82 for a few months, (A troop) anyone remember “calculator man”? Then to Camp Howze to be Colonel’s driver (HHC 3rd Brigade, what a gig that was!!!), then my last few months back at Gary Owen (got caught “slickying” an overnight pass). What a trip those 13 months were. The first three didn’t even seem like reality.
Ditto on Yong-ti-dae, I have a picture I can look for that should have the correctly spelled name of the place. Not much there in the 90s, I only recall a small convenience store and a fried chicken place.
I was at Camp Edwards from 97-98. The town 10 minutes away is Kumchon in case anyone is wondering.
i was stationed at camp garry owen mid 70’s your post bring back a lot of memories. there was a club in yonjugol called the oasis. the club was most frequented by non-com’s. i sorded in s-4 the camp wasnot dirty by anyones image.the ville and roads leading into it were beyond words as being filthy.i was one of the nco’s who had the unpleasant duty of serving under gen brady. what a prud!!!! nco’s were not allowed to assoiate with known bussiness women. but hey guys sure appreciated the memories.
i have seen some off the pictures submitted.it saddensme to see what has become of some of the campswe called home. when i was there it was not near as modern looking as some of the pictures indicate.iwonder what became maj cameron s4 officer when i was there. he was a good officer and a person charater he was the type you could look up to.
’64-’65 I was stationed at Camp Rice (outside Yonjugol)- Hq. Co. 27th/702nd Maint. Bn. I’m really confused about Camp Gary Owen. When I was at Camp Rice, I’m fairly sure that Gary Owen was in our Bn., up near the DMZ. Did the original Camp Gary Owen close, and then was Camp Rice renamed to Camp Gary Owen?
I was driver for the Adjatant, and wouldn’t trade a minute of my Camp Rice experiences. I have many slides that I hope to get uploaded soon. I would love to hear from anyone stationed @ Camp Rice during that time.
it was my understanding that camp rice became camp garry owen .it seems to me that there was a small sign still there in 76 that indicated camp rice,before it was removed shortly after i was there.which reminds me that all the roads in the camp (which were few) were to be named after MOH soldiers. this was assigned to a young lt of which i cannot remember his name.i must say he seemed to be a decent sort. i like some of you don’t remember all of the things from 35years ago.i would like to see more post from those stationed there during the mid 70’s may jog my memory a little.
Sgt. Wing- Thanks for your info. In the ’60s, Camp rice was across the bridge from yonjugol to Tajepol, through the village approx. a half mile, and Camp Rice was on the right. It was small- less than 100 personnel, and backed up against a hill. The pictures that I have seen on the web of Camp Gary Owen, do not look like the old Camp Rice. I believe 1Lt Ken Leighty has put up some Camp Rice pictures that do look like the Camp Rice that I remember. Perhaps there are some others that have memories of Camp Rice in the ’60s.
Is anyone the least bit concerned about the possible Agent Orange exposure to everyone who served at these camps(GI and KATUSA) AFTER 1971 ??? The half life of dioxin is 9-15 years in ground soil. We drank the water in the compound and in the ville. I remember vehicles with trailer drawn “foggers” spraying periodically on RC4 (circa 1979-80). Who knows what else we were exposed to ??? Wake up Warriors !!!! Dont let the VA sweep this issue under the rug.
I was stationed at Cp. Greaves (1st/9th Inf. Bn.)”Keep up the Fire!”
from Jan 84-Jan 85. Was placed in S-4 as they needed drivers when I arrived. Sweet gig, as a deuce 1/2 driver in HHC no humping and no BS, plus we had ongoing offpost driver’s pass…..so we could cruise or trucks through Sonyuri or Yongjugol at a whim. We always went down range to Yongjugol in a group and always to same hooch area and club for overnight pass.The Niagara club!!! There was the Honeybee club and Happy Club. In Sonyuri you had the paradise and Blue Angel club. All the girls in the seedy Blue Angel would put on Breakfast stage shows of ping ping ball and lesbo activity, you always stood the risk, high risk of getting burnt (vd) if you had one of them blue angel girls, but the guys said the vd was worth it. Highlite of your was Russian Student who defected from the north at JSA on my birthday 24 Nov 1984. The north korean soldiers chased him into the south and we killed about 3 of them with our Qrf.
bones what year were you there? i can remember most of the clubs that you mention i just needed my memory jogged a little.when i was there i worked for a maj cameron and a cpt white which were the s-4 officers in charge.i must say they each were good and fair men. look forward to hearing more post in the future.thanks for the memories.
I was at Garry Owen from 75-77 and Hovey from 86-87, did some time at Warrior Base with the 1-503rd. The photos sure don’t look like anything that I remember except maybe the barber shop, it was just outside the rec center and was air conditioned. Got a haircut once a week. Remember Yong Ju Gol well, I think I paid for a building or two. Spent most of my time at the Niagara Club, but did manage to get some time in the Happy, Oasis, 7-Club and Queen Bee. I think there was a new club opened called the Paradise. Also spent some time in some “tea houses” drinking some dark brown liquid. The Turkey Farm was open for awhile, it was off-limits when I went back in 86. Oscar, OB beer, kimchi and Crest toothpaste. Falstaff beer for $2 a case and no ration, did have to go buy a can opener for it tho. Also managed to do a little soldiering while I was there and it was good.
I spent 15 glorious months on Camp Pelham and will never forget the experience. The true test of new comers was definitely a visit to the parasite i mean paradise club. the girls were super aggressive and intimidating to a guy just in from the states. I was there from Apr 90 thru July 91 during the first gulf war hence the extended stay of three extra months. Sonjuri was the paradise club on the surface but those of us who were stationed there knew of the back alley clubs where anything and everything goes. If you remember this was still during the ration years so cigarettes and booze went for a pretty price if you knew who to deal with. i brought a leather jacket and a wool suit for a bottle of Chevas Regal! insane! love the site keep up the good work and a great post about the western corridor. PEACE
Hey all, just wanted to let you know that basically everyone who served in Korea is eligible for the Korea Defense Serice Medal (KDSM). Not that it matters all that much, but for those of us who served in that strange land under that strange armistice, it’s cool to see our service recognized. Veterans can apply to have their DD214 updated and the ribbon sent. I’ve already done it but am still waiting for the paperwork.
Anyways, I thought that was pretty cool and wanted to let you all know if you didn’t already.
I was stationed at Camp Pelham (later renamed Gary Owen) in 1983 and am looking to re-unite with Army members and also I’m hoping to get any photos from that time. Please feel free to e-mail me at hiler8@gmail.com with any info or just a hello..thanks.
This site really helped me piece together the area on a satellite map (google earth). The strip of Sunjuri outside of Camp Pelham (later Garry Own) is now dwarfed by huge construction works behind the north side of the strip. I can send a file through e-mail if you want to see what I’ve been looking at.
daniel would like the information on getting the service medal.i aslo have a couple of awards that did not get on my dd-214 any info on the procedure to get it done or addded sould be helpful . thank you and all the others that have brought back the memmories for me.
The layout for the request page has changed a bit so you won’t find the same icons, but the instructions are the same. I can also confirm that this Saturday I received my updated DD214 in the mail, with a letter stating that all of my previous (and new) medals will be sent to me within a couple weeks.
Good luck Sgt, I’m looking forward to seeing my ribbon and medal first-hand in a couple weeks!
You are correct, I was station at Camp Howze in the winter of ’71. I was attached to B Troop, 4th Sqdn 7th Cav. Before being relocated to Camp Rice. We were given the task to deploy to Dragons Mouth if and when the north made an attempt to move into Seoul. That is were 8th Army was assigned. I guess things have changed since then, in the 13 month of being there not once did I hear for our removal. Had a great time with some wonderful folks, drinking Oscar and trekking through the back country. Some hard working, poor yet proud peoples. We had them on an agricultural type of program back them. Then again it was 1971-1972 and they really hated the North. Pollution was not a big issue, however, that motor pool and diesel heater did leave a mess. Thanks for the info, I was not aware they had close the western corridor. I must say coming across this web sight has made me pull out those long ago picture I stashed away. I met some great guys, some a little crazy, some of I wouldn’t turn my back to and those I would give my right arm for. Good times I must admit especially the Moon Tea room in Seoul. Thanks for helping me recall those wonderful memories of my army days in that freezer call the Republic of South Korea….”Chav”
Help me with this issue…I have had a very difficult time with my health since I ets from Ft. Hood Texas in 1974. My face was swelling up and now I am trying to recover from nerve damage to my legs and hands. They are telling me it is neuropathy, it crippled me in 13 years ago!
Gary Owen, 81-82, A Troop 4/7th….. watching the video, did not recognize anything about gary owen….. all i know they had great living quarters…. we had the old quansin (sp?) huts, turtle ditches, maybe hot water 4 days a week…… what a time…. driving the tanks through the towns….. trying to stop 50+ tons on ice and the main gun going through a wall of one of the bars…… blowing a 9 ft hole with a HEP round in the bridge we drove across to get to the Korean tank range…… what a time…..
I just wish i could remember more of my buddies over there…. 30 years ago, where does the time go……
Sgt. Houlette (702 MSB / 296 FSB)
9:56 am on July 1st, 2011 83
I spent 45 consecutive months in Korea from April 89 to January 93 and I miss it to this day. From April 89 to Aug 92 I was stationed at Camp Edwards West and the last part, due to our unit deactivation (296th FSB) was at Camp Casey with the 702nd MSB. Not only was the Army experience there less hassle and more mission driven than the state side duty stations but it was just down right fun. It is on my bucket list to go back soon just to see the country and the changes that have occured. I appreciate the write ups and such as it allows for some insight as to what has transpired since I left. As a note I saw something in the right up about the Paradise and it being in Yongjugol but I recall it being outside Pelham in Sonyuri.(Spelling) I guess they did some juggling of bases as Gary Owen was Pelham and the original Gary Owen was more south than the maps show here and at one time (during my stint there) there was Cp Howze, Cp Edwards West/East, Cp Stanton, Cp Giant, Cp Pelham and Cp Bonifas all in that area. 1/4 FA (M198 Howitzers) was at Pelham with some ADA (Avengers/Stingers/Vulcans) and the Tankers were at Gary Owen. FA at Sonyuri and Tankers in Yongjugol. But it seems they consolidated?
I was at North Camp Custer in Paju-ri with the 545th MP Co., 1st Cav. Div, from May,1964-June, 1965. Our MP station was in Yongu-gol, across from RC#1. Most of my off duty time was spent in Yongu-gol. The 21 Club, Oasis, 7up Club and the Queen Bee are the only ones I can remember. Of course none of us will ever forget the Turkey Farm.
#83, SGT Houlette. Why haven’t you gone back?? Based on what
you said, you have a strong yearning to do that. Go man!
I will bet you .25 cents hard cold cash there is no other
place you would rather visit on planet earth, what say you! If you have any trepidations about a visit there, contact me. jfisher1946@gmail.com
Pelham was later renamed Garry Owen so there is some confusion as to the two adjacent villes. I was at Pelham in 1983 and I’m wondering if you were there and is so at what time? I’m hoping to get photos of that ville Sonyuri from the 90s. I have a good set of photos from about 1970 onwards but the 90s remains a blank. I have some further details you may want to know about or if your looking for photos let me know at hiler8@gmail.com and I’ll send some to you.
Sgt. Houlette (702 MSB / 296 FSB)
2:13 pm on July 11th, 2011 87
Chris Hiler
As to the time and the lack of pocket digital cameras I will admit I do not have as many as I wish. I would have been there right int he time you wanted when the “parasite” club with “Peggy” and the girls were all there. I was at Edwards from April 89 to Sept 92 and supported both the battalion of artillery at Pelham (1/4th FA) and also the guns that rotated out of 4P3 monthly from the rest of the Division for break/fix.
Of the Pelham area the ones i have found are of the field trainging area at the end of the ville at the fork where the M198′s used to setup. I found a few I snapped there when I was on the way to Camp Casey one day from the corridor with some guns which were laid for exercises and maybe the main gate. Do not think I have any others in Pelham…. carrying cameras then was not as simple and not a priority which I kick myself in the backside for all the time. I will admit the “Gun Bunnies” (13B’s) loved to party and were a bunch of great guys to know.
For the ville outside of the old Gary Owen I have some pics of the inside of the one club that looked like a cave inside with the white walls and had the “for your protection where prophylactic” in both english and korean suspending from the ceiling. yeah too funny I know.. I think at the time it was called the “Nabi club”. I will look and see what I have.
Gary Owen was originally adjacent to the town of Yon Ji Gol before it moved to the former Camp Pelham, which is adjacent to SonYuRi. I was stationed at Camp Pelham in 81 82 as an MP and I know every nook and cranny in Paju Ri, which is the County within the western corridor. Some people don’t know about the original Camp Gary Owen and that Pelham was a separate camp with the 2/17 FA Bn, E Co, 2nd Eng, 4th Plt of the 2nd MP’s. RC4, which was right down the street from Pelham at the west end of the ville housed 2/61st ADA (Vulcan/Chapparel).
Yeah I have seen a lot of comfsuion on blog sites about the two Villes by the original location of Garry Owen (Yon Ji Gol) and Pelham (SonYuRi). I was at Pelham and have been assembling photos and reading blog sites in an attempt to get a good sense of how the area of SonYuRi has changed over time.
Chris, that’s a great website you have there. Brings back a ton of memories to me. I remember the Blue Angel, Kiss Me Club, Paradise Club (Kiss Me close and bought the Paradise) at that point we started calling it the parasite club. I had a great time there. Hope to go back and visit in the near future.
Hey Guys,
Was stationed in ROK in ’73. Arrived two weeks before Christmas at Camp Rice, B Trp, 4th Sqdn, 7th Cav, next to village we called Yon-gu-gol. In summer of ’73, B Trp packed up and moved south to Camp Pelham, I believe, which had a name change to Gerry Owen. Air field, helicoptors, was right across the road. Used to beg rides occasionaly. Had no crossover walkway when I was there. Flyboys were a crazy bunch, but we loved to party with them , especially “Crazy Charlie.”
Sorry, Camp Pelham was north and housed a friend of mine who belonged to an MP, or UP unit. Not sure what the name of the base we moved to was before called Gerry Owen. Will try to look it up in some of my pictures.
Hi Earl, good to hear from an “old timer” like you. Stanton ended up as the Air Cav camp. It was down the road from Gary Owen. I remember that place like it was yesterday. I went back in 91-93 as a civilian at casey, visited pelham and the area. Things really changed. I plan on heading back that way in the near future. I ended up getting out of the Army and joined the Marine Corps, went to language school and learned Korean….need to brush up a little.
Wow Scotty,You are bringing back memories of our days stationed on Pelham in 1980. We were secluded from the troops because of our Military Police Mission. 217FA. ” If I were the cane I would go insane”. Living ,sleeping and eatong with Katusas. Teaching them american slang and all our bad 22yo habits. Living out with the locals in a hooch with my Korean wife and 2yo son. Honey Pots, Bug sprayers at night. Us out during curfew delivering the blotter From the DMZ to Camp Howze. Drinking the water pumped out of the ground next to a rice paddy. Travelling to Seoul on the red train from Munson. We all stuck together like real brothers. I got to go back to our old haunts soon and I will be coming next time.
I was at Camp Stanton in from late 72 and 73 and moved to Camp Garry Owen 74, Camp Stanton Was called Stanton Amry airfield and change to Camp Stanton and Camp Rice Became Camp Garry Owen Spent the best 2 years of my life there even thou I didn’t know it then, The camps were not dirty but they were polluited with old oil and deisel fuel, JP-4 and we did spray Agent Orange along the fence line with a garden sprayer that we filled from a 55 gallon drum that was stored in the back of the motor pool at stanton I was a PFC back then and you can guess who got detailed to spray the weeds along the fence I remember that we would pour used motor oil in back of the motor pool on the ground it look like asphalt pavement when it was dry and nothing grew back there not even wild pot plants one of the men tried I remember him using a pick-ax to try loosen the dirt it just chipped up in large chunks
@ 87 & 88, the club you guys are talking about, was the New Seoul club.
@ 84 were you there from 86 to 87? Sgt. Houlette nobody seems to remember 4P3, I do.
The Happy club had the blondes, until a GI brought his wife into the club,
(she was a natural blonde) after that the girls went to their natural hair color. The Happy club girls were the wildest (they would have you on the defensive).
The 3rd photo down from the top..an areal shot of Garry Owen (was Pelham in ’83 when I was there) and the Ville Seonju-ri. I can still make out the rout we used for PT runs.
I was at Pelham from 93-94. I was still a turtle when I celebrated a birthday there. My “friends” dropped me off at the parasite club after some heavy drinking. The next memory I have is waking up the next morning in my room, late for PT and the 1st Sgt screaming for me because my wallet was turned it at the front gate. Of course the wallet was empty. The good ole days!
I was stationed at Edwards (West)1987-88. I was ETSed in 3/88. The camp had the Forward Area Support Team (FAST), a medical company (or detachment)with helipad, some supply outfit, and my unit- C/702nd. Also, small px store, barber, nco (really for everyone) club, and a small commissary.
After a few months there I served as a vehicle inspector for vehicles being brought for repairs- good duty. Also, as CCI- case contact interviewer. Stange additional duty for a 63W. CCI had to notify club girls that a solder, uh well let’s say had too much fun with the wrong one. lol
Interesting link way above- my my office was feet away from those gas pumps. I recall a Senator (Ohio?) coming in a convoy on the way to DMZ stopping to fill up. He was kind of an ass.
I served at Camp Edwards West as a medic from Feb 89-90, went through the name change from D Co 2nd Med to C Co 296 FSB. I have lots of good memories of my time there, some day I’ll get all my pics scanned in and some might be worth posting. Kum Chon was a few miles south of Camp Edwards, our Med co would run through their market every Friday on a PT run yelling our heads off. I remember the Tree Club, generally the lower enlisted went there the 7Up Club was usually the NCOs. Worked at the med clinic and saw the VD rates of the “working girls” across the Corrior. The Parasite Club was always above 90% positive.
Hey Bill W. (or anyone else), since it’s been a few years for me and I left before any closures, I suppose I fogot a lot about the planned closures. One thing that I’m not sure of as I google the Western Corridor closures is was Edwards (west) simply taken over by Edwards (east) and then simly became “Edwards”? I see some articles describe the Edwards closed in 2004 (?) and that that base had a px, commissary, etc. My memory is that West had those facilities and East did not. And, what year did West close (or at least get the change over from East)?
The picture in the link below shows “Camp Edwards” with 82nd Engineers, but it looks like Edwards (west) with the FAST being the first 2-story building and the second building being where my company had formation. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/camp-edwards-pics.htm
And Scott- a reunion for the 3rd Brigade/Western Corridor would be kind of cool. In Korea!! Some of you may know that the Korean government has sponsored/payed for Kaorean War vets to re-visit- all expenses paid. Maybe they would help with some in-county costs for us non-wartime guys to have a reunion.
Erik when I was there 89-90 FAST 3 was there along with an S&T Co. a Maint Co. and our Med Co. we were changed to a Foward Support Bn and continued the old FAST duties in Oct. 89. The first building became Bn. HQ and the second bldg was my Med Co. HQ. Camp Edwards East was across MSR 1 and had a co. of Mech Infantry. All amenties were at Edwards West. The FSB was deactivated in Sep 1992, and I guess the Engineers moved in until the camp was closed in 2004.
Lober- I found Camp Howze on FB, but there is nothing but a cut ‘n paste from wikipedia on it. About 40 ‘likes’, including me.
Bill- your link goes to FB, but reads ‘The page you requested was not found.’
As side note- I wonder if this would be more viewed if it were a “Western Corridor, Korea’ page? (dont mean to be greedy, just an idea).
Also, are there any Western Corridor specific veterans organizations? I see lots of wartime, infantry, etc. but not for the soon to be lost WC camp folks.
Thanks for all the info guys. I haven’t thought this much about Korea since I left 23 years ago! I especially enjoy the pics.
@Erik: That’s (sounds like) the Camp Howze page you found. Here’s a link (below) to the group I’m talking about, if it doesn’t work try searching Camp Howze, Korea on facebook.
I remember you… as a matter of fact I looked and you were in the 296th FSB annual when they started the unit back up. If you bought one and still have it check it out…lol I was there from April 89 (C CO 702nd) to Sept 92 (296 FSB) when they deactivated the unit and sent me to Camp Casey (702nd MSB). At the time you were there I was in the Armament Section in the old Firehouse by the barber shop and drove for the Battalion Commander for a bit.
I was at Camp Edwards from ’97-’98. Assigned as a 62B working up in the shop on the construction equipment. There were fighting positions when I got there which were then completely disassembled on orders of our new incoming CO who remarked (honestly) that we weren’t fighters and our main mission would be joining the garrison down in Yongsan if the balloon went up. He also added, with a bit of dark humor, that Yongsan would be gone and the charges on the overpass/tank block on the road outside would have already been blown. Pretty cool stuff
Anyone of you older guys have any specific questions about Edwards circa 97-98? The movie theatre was closed, fyi. Not sure when it was last open.
Was at Camp Pelham in 67-68. Sonyuri was the village adjacent to it and was the only place we could go w/out a more official pass, which would get you as far as Munsani, Yonjugol, maybe. Saturday was the only day we could go there and we had to be back by 11 pm. Hq batallion of the 6/37 Arty was there, along with another Arty unit. We had 3 155 batteries and one 8″ battery scattered out by the Imjin and into the no man’s land between the Imjin and the DMZ. We also had nukes.
Ah Camp Edwards. For guys like myself who were stationed at Pelham from 90-91, Camp Edwards was the place to go to use your ration card at the class six and was as far as i know the closest place to Pelham where you could meet American chicks. A couple of nights at the parasite club was enough to get you to try and meet someone else! Great time in country, we were there during the first gulf war so it was 15 months for us. I did’nt complain though. PS soon discovered Casey and other points south and Edwards was soon forgotten as far as american chicks go!
Edwards had a movie theatre!? During my 87-88 stay in the C/702nd Inspection Section (next door to Katusa snack bar) we had:
-Barber Shop
-PX (mini-mart would be an exaggeration)
-Commissary
-Katusa snack bar
-Stage-type room (mini auditorium), maybe that became the theatre?
-a gym (closed the entire I was there for remodel)
– a pool (I think?)
-the officer/NCO/enlisted club (forgot it’s name was Parasite), not too bad
-and a woodshop- hobbyshop
Had to go to Howze for movie theatre and bowling(?)Howze was the big city for us, and Casey was the camps of all camps since our world didnt have anything larger.
It’s cool hearing from Edwards’ folks (and all Western Corridor guys as well).
Alex’s reference was to the Paradise Club in Sonyuri. The theater @ Edwards (which was closed by 89-90) was across the street from the Katusa snack bar, downhill from the all ranks club on the side opposite of the pool. In the time I was there, we used it once for the annual all bases alert to give instructions out to the battalion. There was also a Clothing Sales Store as well, tucked away behind the Commissary. To Sgt. Houlette, once I put a face to the name I remember you as well, although I was much younger and thinner than now! lol
Haha Erik yeah the movie theatre was the stage-type thing too, they must have dolled it up at some point then pulled the plug, so to speak.
We had the same stuff you mention, though I don’t recall any sort of working hobbyshop. The club had slot machines, don’t know if you remember that? We also had beer vending machines in the barracks, but those were soon removed after some people got stupid.
The gym was open when I was there. We also had a USO building on camp, small little place but cool for ping-ping, darts, snacks and movie nights.
Yep, there was a pool but I only remember it being open once. We had a dog with a bad hip named MRE that used to chase all the Korean Nationals on base, he never failed to chase them. Golden Retriever as I recall.
We had a library right up near the front gate where we could check out dvds. The place even had a computer w/ internet access, that’s where I created my first email address through a strange little website called ‘hotmail’. Lol, I still have my very first email saved.
You’re right about Howze and Casey. Howze had a lot more action, and Casey, whoosh…the camp of all camps indeed. Had to wait for the bus to arrive, then take a nap for the 1.5 hour ride with my ID openly displayed for the guard check. And Casey was the only place guys could get any guaranteed mama-san action, to be polite about things. In retrospect, those trips amounted to $40 spent terribly…terribly.
One thing for certain when I was there, our chow hall was stellar. We had Soul Food day once a week (or it might have been every two weeks). People came from other camps just to get a taste. BBQ ribs, cornbread, fried chicken, collared greens, man that stuff was tasty.
Any of you guys ever head out into the little town outside Edwards? I think it was called Yong-ti-rae or something, I hesitate even calling it a town. There was absolutely nothing of importance for me there. The only thing I saw even remotely interesting was a fried chicken shop, but it was never open. Had to head into Kumchon for anything resembling real life.
Man what a time. Hated it while I was there but now I remember it fondly and am very sad to see it closed down.
Dan (#123) Were the clubs across the street gone by then? No “tree club”? the second I am sure was gfone as the business was low compared to the “Tree Club”.
Also during my time the theatre was opened for a period (less than a year) by a few of the troops working with the chaplain. (between 89-93 probably around 91ish)
As for the drive to Casey we used to race from Edwards to Casey and back for the best time. I think our Sgt Wessenberg had the best time probably at damn near 30 mins. USed to love to hear those Hmmer tires bark around the corners and dodge the RPAV’s (Rice Pattie Assault Vehicles)
Dan and Sgt. Houlette- things sure did change in a short time after I left! The chow was not something to brag about. It wasn’t terrible, but the chow hall was so hot that cooks were constantly sweating on the grills and it was obvious to us the same happened throughout the kitchen. Kind of dampens your appetite. lol. When it wss the Forward Area Support Team, the FAST commander was a major. I don’t remember why, but my buddy (Sgt. Ron Johnson) and I ended up drinking with the major across the street. We didn’t have overnight passes and when midnight came (isn’t that the expiration time for passes?) Ron and I said, ‘we better get back’. The major said abruptly ‘why, are you forgetting that i’m the FAST commander?’ so Ron and I looked at each other, smiled and ordered another beer. There was no USO, internet, or beer machines for us. The wood shop/hobby shop was first building on the left when you came on base. I do remeber the slots and the club (what was the name?) and was it Mr. Kim who managed it? I thought it was a pretty nice club.
Bill Beatty started the Camp Howze Facebook page (nice job), but I wonder if a Western Corridor page would allow a button for each camp? I dont know much about the technical parts, but it would be cool to have camp-specific deicussions and pictures, contact info, etc. Any thoughts? This duscussion tread has given me more information on Edwards than i’ve found anywhere in the past 23 years because of you folks. Thanks.
Hey Sgt Houlette, yep there were no clubs at all across the street, at least nothing I ever heard about Americans going to.. I think I walked across there probably three or four times my whole year there, just to see if I was missing what was actually in the town. I wasn’t missing anything because there was nothing to be missed.
Erik, that is bizarre. I actually write under the pseudonym ‘Ron Johnson’. Whoa.
Love the Edwards history guys, I’ve been meaning to get pictures up for a long time so this might finally get me up off my ass.
To Erik (#125) – Yeah as FAST3 we had a major and when we transitioned to the 296th FSB I beleive he simply transitioned to the XO of the 296th (Major Dempsey was the last I remember of the FAST Side) and he was very into the Korean Culture. Good guy though.
To Dan (#127) – Yeah I assume that when we left in late 92 (when the 296 was deactivated) the one real club left was the “Tree Club” but it had taken a beating due to people going to other villages or Seoul/Camp Casey. Does not surprise me that it was gone as the two main women that ran it (we called them First Seargent and Seargent Major affectionetly) were older and such.
I am looking for a place to post the Annual they had created in the first year of the 296th being reactivated as I placed it into a PDF files scanned into the PC. Includes the people and the units and such much like a school annual. Once I find a place to post it I will link it here for some of you to check out if you want.
I believe their were two clubs across the street, neither were anything to brag about, but a place to get off base for a bit and have a few beers. As I walked across MSR 1 into the village, first business on the right was a dry goods store. The first corner on the left was a food (?) store and i recall fish being layed on the ground outside to dry. Wonderful smell! If you make that left there was a restaurant that was the only place to get food (I had Ramon one time) after hours. In the rear portion of the village were apartments. Sgt. Ron Johnson’s wife and three kids lived there, unsponosored of course. 1SGT wasn’t happy, but sort of accommodating – Ron got overnight passes a bit more often. I spent the nights when I was able to get the pass. BTW Sgt Houllete- was MJR Dempsey an African American? Could be the same guy. And Dan- I would love to have any pics of Edwards. Would you be willing to e-mail them to me?
Erik… You got the stores right… first left corner was a food store of sorts much like a convenient store I guess… the one thing that sticks in my mind is the fact that that when I got there in 89 there were no street lights or traffic lights or even cross walks for the people to cross MSR1. As there was no AC in the barracks and my room faced the MSR you could count the auto/pedestrian accidents every month as you heard every one. Over the next three years as the country got more and more used to automobiles, as it struck me that after the 88 olympics they realized they had to, we recevied crosswalks then warning lights and finally a red light. Those damn taxi cabs and “Orange Crush” (The dump trucks which were orange) used to run those Rock Drops coming from the south and never see you walking across till it was too late… lol We called it “Frogger”. I lived in the Village in 91-92 and stayed in two locations… one was the “Strawberry House” as the owner had strawberry bushes.. and the second hooch was out back on the second story of an individuals house they made into an apartment. Better place as it had oil heating and not Charcoal Major Dempsey was Caucasion.
BTW Dan- before I was assigned to the inspection section I worked in the shop that you descibe working in. As you walk past the Katusa snack bar and gas pumps (cant remember what side of the gate the pumps were on), through the ‘maintenance yard’ gate, inspection section is a few feet on immediate left, ‘shop’ is all the way to the right, maybe a couple hundred feet. I believe the shop was built a few years before I got there. The the other/older buildings in the yard where welding shop, recovery (M88 tank tow truck basically), and machine shop.
I was stationed at Camp Edwards 74-75, worked at the East camp but lived at the BOQ at the West side. Since we were Engineers on the East side we made our own theatre and headquarters shack, had our own NCO club and ammo dump, not bad for a company sized unit and a lot better than what the West side offered. Although we had some legendary ‘hail and farewell’ parties at the BOQ on the West side. The camp commander would designate an LT to procure several women from the Tree Frog Club who then brought them in under cover with the band.
Yeah dude whenever i get down to scanning them in i’ll post up in here again (i’ve been sitting on an Edwards blog for awhile now so i’ll put the pics up there and you can just copy them straight off).
Ah yeah man that’s the shop I was in on the right side of the hill. The center shop was the wheeled vehicles bay. Petrol shack was way off on the left w/ the pumps.
The Katusa Snack Bar…ahh, memories of ordering Ramyun and Yakimandu while hammered on cheap beer on Friday nights in the barracks. They used to deliver to our rooms. Relatively tame in comparison to some of the stories here, but it really is cool that so many of us have awesome memories of ROK, even through different periods of time.
ALL – I have to ask if anyone here knew “Hank” the House Boy on Edwards West. The man was old enough to be my Father in 1989-1992 but he was a hard worker and busted is backside for all of us. It was my understanding that he was there for years and some of the older soldiers from the area (earlier 80′s) or even after (93 and on) from the Engineers that took over Edwards West might have known him. Always wondered what he did when the 29th FSB Deactivated. Any pics?
DAN #133 – Can you drop the link to the Edwards Blog you have?
I don’t recall the name of our house’boy’ (much older than I), but your description fits him. $30 per month for excellent services. I wish I could get the same here!
Erik & Sgt. H I was at Camp Edwards (89-90) the barracks on the left as you come on post on the rear. I don’t remember a name either. My memory though was leaving my unit coin in my pants. I went and asked him if he had seen it. He proceeds to pull out a 3 lb. coffee can full of unit coins! He said he always found them in the laundry and put them in the can until someone claimed them. I wonder whatever happened to that can…
Funny Bill. I recall my ahjussi being honest. NEVER one problem with his service, honesty, or anything. I slipped him a bottle of something rationed (Jack Daniels?)during Christmas. He was very happy with that.
Here’s another funny; aa a CPL I was on the CQ duty roster instead of CQ runner. For some reason I only pulled it one time during the year, although I didn’t make a stink over it :). We were to walk the camp every hour, I believe starting at midnight. My first round started off as a nice walk- nice weather, quiet, etc- but it was pitch black. I started from the orderly room (I believe that became the engineers orderely room) toward the gate and followed the road on around past the barber shop and eventually to the commissary and back up past the Katusa snack bar. Anyway, when I came close to the first gaurd tower i’m thinking, he’ll be saying ‘HALT, WHO GOES THERE’, etc. But he says nothing and i’m sure he could have heard me, especially as I got closer and closer. Duriing my tour the Korean gaurds in these towers were packing shot guns and they were civilian, and not known for being the best of the best. SO now i’m getting a bit worried (shot gun + trigger happy + language barrier) and I yell ‘HELLO, CQ HERE”. I then hear a little movement, but no voice. Now i’m more worried. Does this guy think i’m someone he needs to have a strategy with? Is he trigger happy? So I yell again, “HELLO, CQ HERE”. I then hear in very broken english, “WHO THERE”. “THIS IS THE CQ, CPL ANDAL”. After a long pause I hear “OK”. So not fealing real confident in this guy I say “CAN I PASS”. Another long pause and “OK”. And I was on my way. As I left that postion I had three thoughts; 1. I hope the other gaurds that I approach are more on top of things, 2 I’m glad I didn’t get to experience friendly fire first hand, and 3. i’m glad I don’t get this duty very often.
Erik… too funny.. they went on strike during the time I was there and we manned those little shacks for a time. Some of us also learned how to be “fireman” as they also turned our old armament shop near the barber shop back into the firehouse and they were going to strike also. By that time the Armament shop was down in the motorpool on the lower compound.
Just leaving a request that anyone serving at Camp Pelham during the year 1983 contact me. I have really enjoyed gathering people and stories from those times and I don’t expect to stop now!
Talk about a long and interesting read…I was assigned to Camp Howze from 1985-1986…Retired from the Army and lived at camp howze in the red brick apartments by the MSR until 1993…All these posts brought back many Great memories of the Villes outside most bases in the DMZ area…Those places gave a real meaning to the word Party…As a First Sergeant I had to go down range to insure my Soldiers were treating the Local working girls with respect…At least that is what the Brigade Commander Col Stack said…Col Leach was a whole different Ball Game…Division Commander Gary Luck was also a Village Monger and loved to tip a few with his men down-range…My 2 Won Worth…
Let’s see…we lose 58,000 lives preserving freedom for at least half of Korea…thousands more have sacrificed since the war. I have spent over 6 years in ROK military and civilian; I love Korea but they need to pick up the tab on this issue OR we need to pull out and let them handle their own problems from here on…
Scott M. Conn
8:48 pm on October 13th, 2011 141 Times have changed…..”lived in the red brick apartments”…in my day we had a hootch down in the ville.
Yes Times did change, Watched it being built, paid 13,000,000 won at that time it was about $15,000 usd 3 bedroom…Sold it prior to the base being closed and moved to Seoul (Yongsan area)…
Man,you guys brought back some memories! I was at Howze, 1/31 Inf Feb 84-85. I thought I was crazy when I read the confusion about Sonjuri and Yongjugul, but we cleared that up. I was 11b and recall my summer in the DMZ/Warrior Base.
Those 10 man, 24/48 hour patrols in the DMZ were some of my best memories. We shot the place up one night in summer ’84. Had to sit thru an interrogation by some brass and others afterwards, but Lt.Col Reid, our Bn CO backed us up totally. Great Commanding Officer. Anyone remember the long, steep hill getting into GP Collier? And GP Oullette was like being in the Twilight Zone. Hell, the DMZ was the Twilight Zone back then, with all the music blaring.
My back still hurts from jumping over the the fence at Howze after midnight curfew. MRI (years later) revealed a compressed disc from that little night of adventure, but no big deal, that’s my battle injury I guess!
I’d love to be part of a Western Corridor vets group, great stories!.
Check out the Camp Howze group on Facebook, there’s lots of pics and even some vids there. Also, anybody here stationed at Ft Campbell in the mid 80s to early 90s? I know a lot of guys came to the ROK from Campbell or (like me) PCS’d to Campbell from the ROK.
The 101st was my first permanent duty in 1985. 801st combat support bn. We went to NTC, West Point, and International Task Force 11 (Universal Trek) in Honduras. The big thing that sticks in my mind was how much of a running fool our bn. commander was. We didn’t look forward to those runs. What unit were you in Lourn? And, does everyone still head south (TN) to drink because of the stict laws and law enforcement in KY?
I was with 1/502 from 89-91, our previous BN Commander died from a heart attack during a run just before I got there. I saw a lot of guy’s from (1/5 INF) Camp Howze around Ft Campbell. Yeah, we started at the 101 Club on post then the Red Carpet on Tiny Town Road, then from there we usually went to the go-go clubs (Mona’s Log Cabin, Why Not?, Joann’s Back Door, The Pink Lady) working our way down 41A. The Pink Lady had the best dancers, we’ed usually start there then make a circut and finish where we started. There was another club you may remember called “The Penthouse” that burned down before I got there.
Hey guys, I haven’t forgotten about the pics I have from my time at Camp Edwards (97’98). Just been very very busy w/ work and writing. Once I get them scanned and on a computer I’ll post back, never fear.
Lourn- not much has changed at Ft. Campbell. as I was finishing a 10-mile air assualt run I saw a CSM collapse. It was a heart attack, but he survived.
Erik – I did that run too, I think it was in July too and hot as a MF. A female Captain kept passing me until we got to that long steady (incline) hill. I took it easy up the hill and and let her take the lead and she even got out of my sight, when I finally reached the top of the hill and it leveled out I saw a croud around her as she was laying flat on her back, they were fanning her with towels and splashing water on her. I kept chugging away and finished the run I think at 1:13 hrs, not too bad for a 200+ pounder in that heat.
Lourn: I knew a SSgt Leib, guy with red hair, believe his first name was Randall. He was my squad leader in ROK (Camp Edwards), and I know he was previously stationed at Ft Campbell. Sound familiar?
Erik – So you must left Ft Campbell for Korea in 87? Did you spend much time at any of the go-go clubs on 41A? Hey could you reply through either facebook or my email suflex@hotmail.com
Anyone from Pelham or Gary Owen (after the name change in 96) may want to join the following group on Facebook. The membership and activity on this group is increasing.
@ Bill Beatty; You know there’s already a Camp Howze group on facebook with lots of pics and even some videos, nothing wrong with having a page also except for some reason facebook won’t let me like anything anymore. I do like the pic on that page, that’s my old barracks in the foreground and I took a similar pic from our rooftop.
As an FYI I asked and now see that Joseph Helou now updated the Camp Edwards Facebook page so I will be posting some of my pics there and such. I have a few of Pelham and such and will try to get on those groups also as since I was a 45L I supported the M198′s and 4P3 from Edwards… would be cool to see some of the “Gun Bunnies” I knew….
Hi Everyone.
On a personal perspective, I like the Camp Howze FB page as that was my division HQ and a place I visited for various reasons- dental, edcucation counselor, etc. But, I also like the Camp Edwards FB page. Being such a small camp it is important for me to see conversations and pics that are specific to that camp because I would likely otherwise never see or hear anything significant about the small chunk of land that I spent a year on. I have enjoyed both pages very much and I’d sure like to see a link between the two pages. In fact, what about a link between the Howze page and other small camp’s pages? Just a few thoughts. And, thanks to all who have given me back memories that I haven’t thought about for years (mostly good )
Also, thanks to ROK Drop as well. I believe this too is an important page as it covers all of Korea’s issues/past. I certainly didn’t mean to downsize the great work here. I suppose I see the comparison between all the pages like an old high school web page (very cool), but also smaller and more focused groups like the ‘class of 1978′ would be valued as well since it focused on just those interests. Thank you all for this website, the Howze FB, and the Edwards FB.
I was stationed at Camp Edwards in 1989-1990 when it’s mission was DMZ Support (Med, Maint, S&T) we were re-designated 296th FSB while I was stationed there. Thank you to ROK Drop for keeping these bases alive, if only in the memory of us old soldiers. Thank you Erik for reminding me I have a box of photos somewhere that others stationed in the Western Corridor might find familiar. For what it’s worth, I recently saw online that the 3rd Bde of the 2ID is headed to Afghanistan. I don’t know all the units in 3rd Bde, but I do know that 3rd Bde HQ was at Camp Howze, and our FSB fell under their command, although we were still a part of DISCOM. Never quite figured that out, but I was a PFC then. I will dig out those pictures and start posting them on the Facebook page, or here on ROK Drop.
Bill
Was there a Lt. Cole there when you were there? African American, shop officer for the C/702nd maintenance activities and XO of our company. You may recall the shop office was next door to the Katusa Snack Bar. Good guy. He may have left not too long after me (March, 1988), but I just don’t recall when his tour started/ended compared to mine.
Erik
I don’t recall a Lt. Cole, my tour started in February of 89 so he may have been gone by then. I do remember the Shop Office as most of my tour I was assigned to the new MTF (Medical Treatment Facility) that was probably under construction or dedicated during your tour. It was just downhill from the Katusa snack bar.
A couple of people pointed out a simple mistake regarding 4-7 Cav and Camp Garry Owen in particular. I was in 4-7 Cav in 76-77, both HHT and C Trp. LTC Hahn was Sqdn Cmdr at the time. There was a MAJ Mcmanamay and MAJ Machioroli as XO and S-3, 1LT Philip K Duchin was the CE officer. SFC Paul Hogan was the PSNCO. SGT Walker was the Sqdn Courier, CPT Jack Ellertson commanded C Troop. The motor pool was on the left as you entered the gate, HHT barracks on right. Sqdn HQs on top of the small hill next to some Korean graves. The large dirt field shown on current photos was the baseball field and the Rec Center stood at the north end of it. The old NCO Club is still visible on google maps
Everywhere the 4-7 Cav is stationed, they call Camp Garry Owen. There was even an FOB Garry Owen in Iraq. When I got to Camp Garry Owen in 76, it was right outside YongjulGol. Supposedly it had been called Camp Rice before the Cav moved in.
Delta Troop, the Air Cav Troop was down the road at Camp Stanton.
They had one Platoon of Infantry called the Delta Blues which was the Div Cdr’s personal pet platoon, allowed special uniforms etc. Soldiers had to go thru a special training course to be in the Delta Blues. The culmination of which was a helocast where the chopped would “accidently dunk them in a local lake. That process was stopped by the Div Surgeon because every time a soldier went in the local water he had to be given shots for a bunch of diseases (cholera/hepatitis) if he had any open cuts or ingested the water.
Supposedly, across the street from Garry Owen was what had been called RC #4 which had been given to the ROK Army. RC = Recreation Center and there was what remained of a large swimming pool that the ROK had allowed to become filled with garbage. TaejuPol was the small village before you crossed the river/bridge into Yongjulgol. Also called the “Turkey Farm”, most well known place was the “Blue Door” which was famous for cheap oral thrills.
The gate to Garry Owen circa 1976-77 is located at 37.824963, 126.844049
I might try posting a map/annotated photo when I get the chance.
We lost our telephone communications for two days once. We were on the Giant telephone exchange. You picked up the phone and told the Korean Operator what unit you wanted and they connected you. Two Sergeants First Class stood up the Korea gals who worked as operators on a date and they responded by not not allowiing any of our calls to go through except on the line line we had to Casey which was direct dial. The CSM had to tell them to go and apologize so we could get phone communications back.
Do you remember the 1SG (s) Walton and Belardo? How about commissary mom, who
was married to a Korean and sold pictures at the entrance. I was on the Contact team with SSG Christian, SGT Reilly, SPC Legg and SPC Cole. There was guy who could out drink the Koreans (Soju)he ended up in track 3 treatment, What do you know about a guy name Mosher. LOL….SFC Deramus was the 3rd shop NCOIC and CW3 Peters was the OIC. Do you remember when GEN Luck called an ALERT while we were in the chow line? LOL I could go on and on about the comical crap that went on.
I agree… When I was in the Western Corridor from 89 to 93 the Garry Owen I knew was one in the same with yours to include the Air Cav down the road at Camp Stanton. Your Coordinates nailed it. The U.S. Army played name games later when the armor moved to Camp Pelham (where 1/4 FA was) closer to Munsan and the newer RC4 (from what you knew) and closed the Garry Owen you and I knew.
greg you nailed it. camp garry owen as you described it was as i remember it. i was stationed in the s-4 shop during that time i worked for a maj cameron and later cpt/maj white. the ncoic was sfc rodell which i replaced for a short time until a replacement came in. the 1st sgt was named hawke.the ones i remember most were sgt felix sfc white ist hawke maj cameron etc. we usually frequently went to the oasis club the momason there looked out for us,we were alerted when gen brady was in the area if you remember nco’s were not allowed to associate with known business women.funny i never saw any women in the clubs that were not bussiness women ha!
Hi Bones- I believe my first 1st Sgt was Belardo. He was an ass and had something wrong with his trigger finger that made it extend always, like he was pointing. He bragged when he got orders for Leavenworth and talked abouot how he wouldn’t mind making the prisoners lives more uncomfortable. We were SO glad when his replacement arrived. My second 1st Sgt. was a big dude, black, and commanded respect just from his posture. In reality, we all respected him because of him. Good guy (if you didn’t screw up). I can’t remember his name. I was only in the commissary a few times and so I don’t remember many of the regulars/staff. Mosher does not ring a bell, but my memory sucks anyway. Wher’d he work? And, our Shop OIC was 1st Lt. Cole (good guy, I wish I could locate him), 3rd shop office was CW3 Woods (another good guy i’d like to locate), and Cpt Virgilio was our CO for most of my 2007/08 tour. When were you there, what did you do?
Greg,
Thats the Garry Owen that I spent 75-77 on in HHT. Funny that mentioned Philip Duchin, I worked for him at Ft Huachuca in the early 80′s, he was the CO of the 505th Sig Co. I remember that we called him Disco Duck when he was in the 4/7 CAV. He was quite the character.
Erik,
I’ll get you his email address when I go back to work on Tuesday. He works for a contractor on Ft. Bliss as the PM for the DOL. I met him in the early 90s when he was the BDE Maint Officer and I was a BN Maint Officer. Good guy!
He was the 11th Air Defense Artillery Brigade Maintenance Officer. It is a small world and even smaller in the automotive Warrant Officer field. I’ll get his email to you tomorrow.
Camp Stanton, 95-96 F-troop 4/7 I was just leaving when they finished that overpass. Before you had to take your chances with the light and the terminator trucks.
I didn’t know that all the camps were closed. To bad no Camp Howze drink girls.
I was in seonyu-ri 62&63 CC4 is the only name I recogonize also MUNSON. I was in 77th field artillery 1st cav. HD battery. Could some one help me out with name of camp? There was a little creek dividing Seonyu-ri and camp. Was station there during Cuban crisis.
#179, I was an at north Camp Custer in Paju-ri from 64-65. You were definitely at Camp Pelham. Traveling north from Sonyu-ri you came to slicky boy corner. Stay to the left and Camp Pelham was a short distance up the road to the right. They changed the names after we left so it will be confusing but I assure you that you were at Camp Pelham. 15th S&T was also there.
Thomas,Paradise club and pictures of fish alley bring back memorys of seonyu-ri in 62. Every thing was dirt roads only hard surfaced rd was to Soel. We were country boys. All field exrecise’s was in Jan or Feb. Did all the girls want to go steady in the 80′s?
#179 I forgot to mention that slicky boy corner was in Munsan-ni. You probably remember that. Cuban Crisis found me at the Automotive School at Ft. Knox.
#182 – back in the 80′s, the girls were still all Koreans and yes, many did want to get married.
The ’88 Olympics are really what changed Korea from what it was, to what it is today. I look to the ’88 Olympics as the point in time that Korea truly emerged from their Hermit Kingdom.
I drove all those roads on a regular basis. I was a truck driver in the 17th Trans Bn at Casey and hauled to and from all the camps north of Uijongbu in 60-61. The MSR was blacktop to gate 2 at Casey, and the one from Seoul to Munson Ni was blacktop to the check point. Dirt roads with some gravel
Robert Johnson: I was a Instructor at the Automotive School at Knox 62-63 in the Chassis Section. Remember we had a Master Sgt Maxwell with a glass eye, SFC Merradith, Msgt Abshire,a Staff Sgt with a huge mustach. I was a buck sgt. I was also a platoon sgt for one of the wooded barracks. I let one of the students paint some hot rodded pictures of armt trucks and jeeps on the walls in the barracks, 1st sgt had a fit.
#185 Most of our NCO’s were shipped out during the Cuban Crisis. Only one I remember was Staff Sgt. Hershel Taylor. He came to Korea in 1965 as our new motor Sgt. I recognized him immediately and introduced myself in frontof the CO. He asked the Co if I was any good? The CO told him I was the best. Later, Taylor must have gotten a dear john because he became a vegetable. He got a compassionate reassignment back t the States. I drove him to Kimpo. The only other NCO I remember who as a black dude who could call cadence like nobody on this earth. If we weren’t in class, we had dismounted drill all the time. A pain in the butt except when he was in charge. We actually looked forward to it. I lived in an old wooden barracks that was actually at the corner of Wilson Rd. and 7th Avenue.
185 Yep, that is where I learned to march troops. I looked every where for photos from there, nothing. If you have any, I sure would love a scaned copy of ant of the school area or barracks.
I was a gear head back then, and still am. Here is my weekend play car.
185 I never had any pictures from the school or anywhere at Ft. Knox. I was a car nut long before I joined the Army. I had a 55 Chevy parked in a private lot on Wilson Rd.. The last night there, we were all going home for a couple of weeks for Christmas. They told us that we weren’t allowed to travel by POV during hours of darkness. About midnight I went to the orderly room for something and the CQ asked me why I was still there? I told him what we had been told and he laughed and told me to hit the road! Five of us with all our duffle bags and other stuff made for an interesting drive to Cincinnati. No Interstate highway, just US 42
1985 TO 1986 Camp Pelham 2/17th FA looking back on the first night we landed in South Korea and stayed in Seoul Hotel , I was fortunate and will always pride my self for that tour of duty, I have lost touch with most of my army buddies Mario Lavlenet, Art Carter , Roberto Jones, I would give anything to meet them today over a cup of coffee and reflect, some how life throws us around and we neglect to keep the best times close, I was just browsing my Face book time line change and found the Life Event page and started a post to my military time I served in South Korea which brought me to search the web and found the ROK site the pleasure to find the postings brought back vivid reflections and a smile to my face to see that although time has passed and the future is always bright , we can connect with people and a time that can improve our understanding of life and the reasons why we do the things we do, I think I shall update my life events in face book since my child hood days as see what happens,P.S. keep in touch .
Make sure to look up Camp Pelham on Facebook if you have not already as there is a Facebook page for Pelham and also Camp Edwards… not sure about the others but those two I am aware of and participate on. Never know… there might be some people there ya know of the 100 or so members.
Mr. Houlette- room dog. I was your “room-mate”, even though you lived in Yong Tae Ri.> sp. I was at Camp Edwards from ’90 to 91. 18 months, involuntarily extended. I remember a dog named JP4. Mama san at the club across the street, hung out there a lot and drank a lot of Jungle Juice??(what’s in that stuff anyway?) Did our CO’s girlfriend get killed trying to cross MSR1? Loved hanging out at the NCO Club and pool. Thank god for the NCO club. Someday I will try to post my photos too. We went to the field quite a few times supporting the artillery guys from Camp Pelham. Our 1SGT had a dog (a shepherd mix)that got kidnapped and someone shaved it’s head, hilarious. The 1st SGT also bragged that he was related to Brian Setzer?? Korea was a long strange trip.
I was stationed at Camp Stanton 1984-1985. HHB 2/61st ADA. Learned a lot about myself and the Korean culture. Kind of crazy seeing the walkway across the road to the airfield which was not there when I was. I found working with the ROK soldiers to be very enlightening and would love to see some of them again to catch up. I have some photos of the base from the top of the mountain behind the base. Does anyone know if the tank traps are still there?
I had to stop reading about the alleged pollution issue because I remember the area did not have any real sewage system. Raw sewage all over the place. I hope the new leader to the north has more sense than his predecessors?
I also remember finding all kinds of propoganda literature which was said to be dropped by the North using balloons. I have few copies of that as well.
I would give anything to live those times over again. 77-78. I was assigned to HHT at Camp Garryowen. Anyone remember SP4 Maggio? CSM Dimitri? Cpt Couch? SP4 Watson? I just remember being so young and crazy and full of life. This is a great forum and really rejuvenates me. I want to go back someday. Here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRdftI18E2k&feature=related you can see the camp as Camp Rice before it became Camp Garry Owen. The helo pad was still a helo pad but it was also the rec center’s open space. The Quanset huts were updated to more rectangular one floor barracks when I was there. What a time warp it was.
SGT STERK-thanks for the youtube video, I sure remember all of those buildings well. I was a mechanic in Troop Maintenance back in 75-77 and spent many hours in the old barn that we called a motor pool. Its fun to remember old memories but more fun to make new ones.
Thanks for the video. I believe Rice was renamed Pelham then later Gary Owen. There are a couple groups on Facebook dedicated to this camp and I would like to post this video in one of them. Please confirm my info above is you see this, Thanks
Camp Beard;
The pin locating Camp Beard is in the wrong place. That is Recreation Center #1. Camp Beard is across the road (top center) going up the narrow valley.
Camp Giant;
Prior to it assuming the name ‘Giant’, the compound was simply know as Post Engineers. However, a map dated July 1 1968 does refer to it as Giant. I arrived in country Oct 67 (2nd BN 72nd Armor, Camp Beard)and knew it as the PE compound. http://koreaatourofduty.us/Installations68.html
Camps that temporarily used the name Gary Owens;
Camp McGovern, Camp Rice (Yongjugol), Camp Pelham
This name Gary Owen is associated with the 7th Cav and units of it could use the name if they desired to. http://news.webshots.com/photo/1079038943027034894fOvVhc
For those following this thread that haven’t seen this already, the below link takes you to a complete list of my “Profile” series of postings of different USFK related areas in Korea:
Chris Hiler, Use the link of Camp Rice and the same Camp Pelhem if you like. I found it on YouTube. HANABMF you are correct. Making new memories is great but lately I have gone back in time to conjure up old times. I am almost 60 years old so I’m looking back these days. I’ll get over it soon enough I suppose. I’m still trying to find SP4 Maggio who worked with me at HHT. Anybody have a 1978 HHT yearbook that would give me a first name? Thanks. By the way, this website has some great fast turn around comments.
Thank you for your post…brings back a lot of memories. I arrived at Greaves in August 1971, serving with 1/17th(MECH) Infantry, and after some months, we pingponged south of the Imjin to a Camp McKenzie. Thus far, I’ve been unable to find any info on the latter, although I found the remnants of Greaves on Google Maps. I suppose 40 years has wrought too much change. I’m interested if anyone remembers McKenzie and/or its location. I still have the same camera I used all those years ago to take a good many photos of Greaves, the DMZ, McKenzie, etc.
I was there from June 86 to June 87, I was on the Contact team. Your right about
about 1SG Belardo with the finger, but he was cool for the time I was there. He retired at Ft. Riley and got a job selling insurance.
@189
You guys had issues with 4/7 CAV lol, there were a group of guys who called themselves “The Family” from HHB.
I was stationed with HHB, 5/5 ADA at Camp Stanton in 1992 and 1993. D Btry, 5/5 ADA was also on the camp. A and B Btry’s were at Tong du Chon. i never understood why an avenger battery and a HHB would be that close to the DMZ, but we were. If anyone was there during that time, feel free to contact me.
I was stationed at Camp Edwards in 1981-1982(Armament), 1984-1985(Armament NCOIC), 1987-1989(Armament NCOIC). I have a ton of pictures and some videos. Not only pictures that I took but also from 5 different year books. I’ve always thought about scanning the yearbook pics and putting everything up on one of my websites. I actually have a video where I mounted a Sony betamax camera in the back of a jeep and filmed the entire drive (through the front window) from the front of the Armament Shop all the way across Freedom Bridge to 4P1 on the DMZ to fix an M102 howitzer. Nice to see people from that time still around and hello to everyone that was stationed there that I don’t know. Sgt. Houlette? You remember Mike Kelly? Believe it or not, we both work here on APG in Maryland. Hope to hear from you some time!
Sgt. Houlette (702 MSB / 296 FSB)
12:09 pm on May 9th, 2012 205
LOL at SGT Stotts… glad to see ya and touch base… you need to tell Mike that I have tried to track him down and been unsuccessful..
I was stationed with S2, HHT 4/7 Cav at (old) Camp Garry Owen 1979-80. What a great bunch of guys. We were all so miserable together it was actually fun. At that time HHT and A Troop (Armored Cav) were at Camp Garry Owen, B and C Troop (Air Cav) were just a few clicks south at Camp Stanton by Changman-yi, and D Troop (Air Cav) was at Camp Stanley outside Uijong-bu with 2ID DivArty. The Romance Club and the Giant Tea Room were next to the police box at the East side of Yongju-Gol on the road to Beobwon-Ri(pronounced “Pobwonyi”). There were a few Hawk Missile ADA Batteries up on the mountains around Beobwon-Ri. YongJu-Gol was like the wild west back then. Damn near anything went. We worked hard and partied hard. I was a punk-ass 19-year old buck private when I got there and left a well-trained Spec4 in need a of rest from all the hard work and partying. When I came home in May 1980 I remember getting on the plane at Osan to fly back to Travis. I was so happy it was over and I was “going back to the world”. I swore I’d never go back to Korea again. Little did I know that I’d end up spending 8 more years in Seoul after the Olympics 88-95 and TDY throughout the Korea as a soldier and 3 more 96-99 as an Army Civilian at Yongsan. I learned to love the place. Life is a trip, no?
DRIVING AROUND DIVISION AREA
4:51 pm on May 24th, 2012 207
As the NCOIC for the 2ID carrier service, I went to every camp in the division area from Che judo to Cp Howez. Not one accident.
Thanks for the memories, guys! RC#4 89-91 “Attack Battery”, 5/5 ADA
My, how things have changed, especially the names of the camps.
Dave Daggett, 1SG, USA Retired
10:20 pm on July 22nd, 2012 210
I had a little guy named Paschall that I put thru BT in 1983. Then when I got off status and went to Germany, there he was. Is that possibly you, Pashall?
I was stationed there at camp pelham back in 1990 to 1991. I think it was the perfect place to train for our artillery exercices that we went out to the field for to prepare for any battle to come our way.
I was at C 702 86-87 I worked in 3rd shop with Sgt.D. I remember playing softball with spc Legg,sgt Holmes,sgt D,sgt Ericson, Mosher was from one of the great lake states, he was my room mate but iI don’t know anymore about him. He was a kick in the pants. I do remeber 1st sgt’s walton, and Belardo. they were both cool with me. as well as cpt.Davis. The office clerk was Balisha Jefferies.we partyed a little when she got back to the world. lost track of her. One of the most vived memerys was of sgt Riely grabbing some jackass’ junk and pulling him through one of the clubs, can’t remember the name of it but it was a cave.
Ed- I was in 702nd Co C from 87-88. I was first assigned to 3rd shop, then assigned to inspection section. I remember Balardo, but it seemed he wasn’t regarded as the nice guy. I recall him being excited to PCS to Leavenworth. We didn’t have use of the pool or old gym as they were closed for upgrades my entire tour. Was Lt. Cole there during your stay?
Erik- Was Lt Cole the shop officer. I think my chief officer was CW4 Peters. I also remiber a Sgt. Dove. For some reasone your name seems familar cant spell worth a crap sorry. I left in late May 87. I also worked with Sgt. Thorp.
You guys bring back memories. Peters was CW3 SFC was Deramis, Belardo replaced 1SG Walton, Jefferies was Company Clerk, Belardo Retired at Riley ended up selling Insurance. Legg PCS along with Kidd, Rielly was a Biker, Christian went to Carson, Mosher,you are right, if he was in jeans he was cool,if he was in a suit,look out. Garner, Commissary Mom, Katusa Snack Bar. Tree Club If you guys were to see me, you say Ohh Hail No.
#215 – Bones I was there in October of this year to see what all had changed after 20 years of being gone. the “tree club” as we knew it was demolished and a new building built in its place. the “Spring water” was done the same… seems the community was simply wanting to move on. Not to mention the entire post is demolished… no buildings at all. Have some pics and will need to simply post them up.
Bones- yea I Rembimber Mosher, he came back to post with his head bashed with a bottle, after the meds patched him up he pulled a cptQ out, put his kill a commy for mommy T on, then waited for the gate to open. He was dead set on getting who ever smacked the shit out of him. Commissary mom was Sherrie she moved to the ft Lewis area. Sg.Houlette did you do a lot of weight working.
#217 – Ed Harris I was not a big weight lifter… was more interested in lifting the OB bottles Spent a lot of time in the tree club or on bus 32 heading to Yong Ju Gol / Taking Cabs to Son Yu Ri outside of Pelham. Well…. when I was not keeping the M198′s firing for the 1/4th or supporting 4P3
Hey! Is there any way to have this website correct the order of camps up the MSR from Camp Howze? They skip over Camp Edwards West and go straight to Camp Edwards East. No mention of Camp Edwards West. Anyone else notice that? Maybe they moved the camps around and got rid of the original East Edwards during this posting of the camps, IDK. But the pictures and description clearly only show East Edwards and no West Edwards.
Sgt Stotts…. the entry they discuss is Edwards West (main Edwards by the gate and aerial view due to Commissary and such) the engineers took it from us when we disbanded 296th FSB in 1992. The Edwards East (across and down the MSR north of the ville) was our Med Company during the 296th FSB days I beleive. At one point there was an infantry company there I think when you were there in the mid 80′s? I think the confusing part is that Edwards had Engineers way back (prior to FAST3 and 296th and the Engineers of the 1992 and later era) the black and white pics of east you see… 1970 or so.
Hi Chuck, thanks for posting. Actually this website has some mistakes regarding this. Looks like they are referring to both east and west as a whole making no mention of the units that were the core of Camp Edwards West for many many years. That third picture is what was at Edwards East during the years I was at Edwards West. B Co 2nd Engineer Bn. I have a letter of appreciation for repairing their CEV (combat engineer vehicle) In 1982. The same vehicle that was used to block the North Koreans from coming across the bridge of no return during operation Paul Bunyan in the 70′s following the tree cutting incident. The last picture shows the front gate of Edwards West with the caption below it saying “the last unit to call it home was 82nd Engineers”. So I guess they took over Edwards West after your unit left? What I’m confused about is if the med unit went to Edwards East, where did the Engineer unit go that was there? At this website http://rickinbham.tripod.com/KoreaPhotos.htm scroll down to the picture of Mr. Cho and Miss Ko. They were at the NCO club at Edwards West when I was there. And you’ll also see 1971 pictures of the same 2nd Engineer Bn at Edwards East sign that was there when I was there. I don’t know exactly when C Co 702nd Mt Bn became active at Camp Edwards West but according to Ricks website it was there in 1971 and I’ve seen post on other websites indicating it was there as far back as 1968. So I can only assume that this website is only referring to the last days of the camps. But even still, they got it wrong in the fact that the last unit to call Edwards East home must have been the Med unit. So my main point is they seem to only refer to Edwards east and west as a whole and infer that the only units ever there were the Engineers.
Hello everyone I was a medic with D Co 2nd Med which became C Co 296th in Oct. 1989. We were at Camp Edwards West, there was a company of infantry at Camp Edwards East from 1989-1990 1/5 Mech I believe, do not recall the company. Our orderly room was the 2nd building on the right, just past FAST 3/ FSB HQ Bldg. The housekeeper we had said the post belonged to the engineers in the 1970s, at some point they moved the S&T Co.& Med Co. in and we became the 296th. Once the 296th was deactivated in Sep 1992, the Engineers moved back in until it’s closure in 2004. http://www.stripes.com/news/camp-edwards-closure-contiues-with-move-of-vehicles-to-camp-casey-1.25862
As stated in Post 222 the FAST 3 to 296th transformation changed the units on both WEST and EAST. one by designation and the other by rotation. Engineers did not return until Sept 1992 (Being gone since some time in early 80′s). As 2ID Doc stated, when Fast 3 was in place the Med was on WEST due to the Infantry at EAST. (1/5th sounds correct) During the 296th run the MED company of 296th moved to East until our deactivation in Sept 92 and I was sent to Casey (C Co 702nd AGAIN) for the last few months before leaving country in Jan 92.
I got a bit confused from the posts above. From my memory, during my 87-88 tour in C702nd; D Co Meds, C 702nd, and FAST 3 were on Edwards West. Engineers were on Edwards East. I do not recall infantry on East during my time.
Erik, When I arrived in Feb 1989, the infantry was across MSR1 and as you said FAST 3, 2nd S&T, 2nd Med, & 702nd Maint were all on West Edwards. In October 1989 we were all reorganized and renamed 296th Foward Support Battalion. According to the war plan the infantry was supposed to cover our evacuation south to our first position to provide brigade support. Sgt. Houlette spent several years at Camp Edwards & in 2ID so he may be more familiar with the timing of the Engineers at Edwards East. I know it was infantry at East when I was there, I stitched more than a few up after fights. Spc Bill Weedman
After the division moved out of the area it becomes very difficult to keep track of what units were moving to were as information is not as widely published.
I knew that some infantry had occupied Camp Howze over the years but never knew they also were at Edwards. It’s one of those camps you just don’t hear much about.
I was at Howze early 84 into 85, in 1/31 Inf (Mech). We would go to Younju gol all the time. Loved that place. What Camp was the one at Young ju gol?? I was at Edwards for 1 month, around Christmas time, helping with the mail (even though I was a grunt). The only Edwards I recall was a bit north of Howze, on the opposite side of the MSR. Not sure if that would be east or west. But west would be logical. They had a rail road line going thru it, where we (infantry) would put our APC tracks on (along with ourselves) to go down south for Team Spirit in March. I just don’t remember another Edwards, but it was a long time ago, as we all know.
Ok. Maybe you guys can help me out. I am confused. Pelham was the Son Yur-i Camp? What Camp was the Yung-ju-gol Camp? (In 1984, when I was there). Spent time in both ville’s, but really was never exactly sober while in them. The Son-yur-i girls were by far the scariest bunch. Yong-ju-gul was better. And how did some of you guys spend 3 or more years there, consecutively? They let us do that? If I had only known. Although I was crazy homesick as a 19-20 year old there. But all in all, Korea, western corridor was way better than any stateside duty. Stateside was just mundane and boring, 24/7. Western Corridor was The Twilight Zone, but it was one heck of a ride.
When I came down on levy and got my orders for Korea, everyone was laughing and telling me how screwed I was. They were telling me, “Worst place ever, bro, it’s all over for you, you will freeze to death, Frozen Chosen/Chosin”…etc etc. I was at Ft Bragg at the time, 82nd Abn.
Finally one Sgt came up to me and said, “you are going to have the time of your life there, kid.” He was right, although I didn’t believe him at the time.
Erik, ok, thanx. I should know, since I lived there for a month, temporary mail helper during Xmas time. But I just can’t recall an Edwards east. I do recall the small ville though, Yong te ri or something like that, a couple of clubs.
to Mike in #229 – YOu are correct on the Cp. Pelham situation as it was in Sonyuri(with the utopia and paradise clubs).. YongJuGol (Aju club and the like) was next to Cp.Gary Owen and Cp Stanton(air field) down the road.. Now before people on here start freaking out I want to highlight that this is the way it was between 89 and 93… at some point after that some cav commander decided to rename Cp. Pelham in Sonyuri to Cp Gary Owen all because they moved the cav to that location from Gary Own in YongJuGol. It has been discussed on a number of occasions that this “ranking officer” did not follow the proper process and the documentation around the change is missing or confusing to say the least. All i know is what was there when I was there from 89-93 and I supported M198 Howitzers at Pelham in Sonyuri and Cav M60′s and Bradleys at Gary Owen.
@Sgt Houlette;
A letter dated 22 Jan 1999 states ….
“Camp Pelham was re-designated to Camp Garry Owen in 1996. The Cav CMDR there did so on his own initiative. Subsequently, on the official records the camp is still known as Pelham. We tried to tell him how to do it by the book, but he would not listen”
‘R. Miller, EUSA Command Historian’
I’m still trying to get a conclusive answer as to whether or not the former Camp Rice (Yongjugol) was renamed or just re-designated Garry Owen. The name was also used at Camp Coursen and Camp McGovern when the 7th Cav occupied those locations back in the 60′s.
Ah. That clears things up a bit for me, as I thought I remembered Pelham at Sonuri, and I was kind of sure I also remembered Garry Owen at Youn ju gol, in 1984.
How some commander can just switch a camp name like that is bizarre.
It’s like switching Ft Hood to Ft Bragg, by the stroke of a pen. Of course, 30 years later it’s going to be nothing but confusion for guys trying to recall it all. And the Soju and OB beer probably doesn’t help trying to recall. Good times.
I was positive that Camp Garryowen was not in Yongu-gol in 1964-65. I worked at the MP station across from CC-1 and Camp Beard was right next to our station. Never could understand why the change in names over the years. Pelham was definitely at Sonyu-ri in my day. My home was at North Camp Custer at the base of Charlie Block. God only knows what it may have been called in later years.
The only camps that went through temporary name chances were Camp Rice (Yongjugol) to Gary Owen and Camp Pelham (Sonyuri) to Gary Owen. In both cases the change took place after the 7th Cav moved into them.
Prior to 1964/65, Camp Coursen was temporarily called Gary Owen (again, occupied by the 7th Cav) and Camp McGovern carried both names on it’s sign. Camp McGovern, written on the left side of the arc, and Gary Owen, written on the right side.
There were other camps were the 7th Cav was stationed over the years, but there was no name change at these locations(Camp MacKenzie and Camp Jeb Stuart, to name two of them.)
I might also mention that in order for a camp to be renamed, it must follow 8th Army guidelines.
Otherwise, the name change is simply a re-designation.
Camp Pelham was re-designated Camp Gary Owen.
I was stationed at Gary Owen back from 80-82 (end of 79 to Jan 82) with A Trp 4/7 Cav. as a mechanic working on 48a5′s, 113′s, duece n a halfs, goats..etc.., etc.., etc.. went through the ROK ranger course, qualified a 48a5 during gunnery (we were short on a crew for one of the tanks so SFC Williams (motor sergeant at the time) volunteered a couple of us wrenches to shoot the tank).., I used to hang out at the Chin-ju club (interior was designed like a cave).., majority of the mechanics hung out there. I had a hootch in tagibole or however you spell it (ville right out the gate before you crossed the bridge to yongjugol).., good times there, havent been back since I left but I will return there someday.
Some of the mechanics that I remember., Doobie, Tompson, Baker, Audie, T, Valaeo, Lindy, Allen, many others that I can remember their faces, but their names slip my mind.
Thanks for the site! Brings back some really kick-ass memories!!
I remember reporting to the turtle farm in nov 1989. from there went to 1st Battalion 4th Field Artillery Regiment at Camp Pelham. Seonyu-ri was the ville outside the camp’s walls. There was this store to the left outside the gate where the koreans store keepers made custom sweat suits and sold other items. there was this pretty korean girl working there. A lot of my soldier friends tried to talk to her but she wasn’t having it. One day I went into the store and asked her brother why did she act the way she did towards us soldiers. He responded, look over the counter and look at her leg. I did as he asked and noticed that she had only one leg, also that there was a prostetic leg sitting in the corner where she was working at. He then went on to tell me that a soldier had something to do with her injury. I was astounded. He never got into detail, and I never asked for any more info. I had some good times up there, especially at 4P3 for those soldiers who know what that is. I will return one day to see how the western corridor has changed, if they allow us up there anymore.
Erik- Mosier worked in third shop when he was not on the gate. He was my room dog. I can recall one time he came back from the vil. he was shitfaced, he remberd that he had tossed a sandwich out the window earler that day he went out and retrieved it and ate ants and all.
I remember while in a drunken stupor one night having our cook at the EM Club fry me a whole chicken that was frozen solid. After several minutes of bickering, he decided to do it. Looked good! Bagged it up and headed for the hooch. Discovered the thing was still frozen and just left it on my footlocker. Woke up later and found my buddy, Haines was cooking it on top of our oil heater. It worked! 545th MP. Co., Camp Custer, 1964-65.
I am writing in response to some comments about the 4/7 CAV. I was there July 1973- July 1974, this being my 2nd tour in Korea in 10 years. I was Platoon Sergeant of 3rd platoon C Troop. When I arrived the name of the compound was Camp Rice and was changed to Camp Garry Owen about September that year suggested by our new CSM Hood and Squadron CO. Not only that,but they also removed an 8th Army heli pad which used to be just behind the Aid building and in back of our supply room. In 1963 I was in Aco, 2nd Bn. 15th armor which was located across the Imjim supporting the 8th and 9th CAVs with our tanks in case anything happened. The rest of our Bn. was in Yon ju gol across the road from the RC. at the same time. up the road across from the compound I was at later in 73-74, was another US compound, an artillery unit. I was there with one of our platoon sgts. visiting his brother who at the time was operating the NCO club. In 73 when I got there, that compound was ROK army and our old Bn. compound was also ROK army. In 76-77 I was back again at Casey, Platoon sergeant 2nd Plt. 1/72nd armor. We made one run across the river at night and past my old area from 1963-64 and from what I could tell all of the quanson huts were gone and the area empty. I sure hated to see all those thing sgone. Now after being retired from the army for 26 years after 24 1/2 years service, I see how life has changed over the years. Vic Pitts, 1SG, USA RET
Well what Ican give thanks to you for the geografic history
so well gather and presented.That wouldbe very apreciated memory of the camp that i expend time during the flower of our youth on the defense of Korea.
My family we have 3generations of doing the Samuel sotomayor 1952 Company D 65th infantry myself, Federico Sotomayor 1976 1977.Co B 2nd Engr Batallion.My Son Ricky T.Sotomayor served 20010 on aviation unit here by we only have a fallen cousin in Korea. well thanks for a job well done.and best regards( Federico Sotomayor)Senior
One thing wrong with the timeline is when the name changed from Pelham to G. Owen. I was at Pelham from 1993 to 1994 as part of the 5-17 Cav. So, it changed after that. I would like to see about the other camps not mentioned as well. FYI…Liberty Bell was handed over to the ROK’s the same year I arrived in 93, but was home to Ranger and LRRP’s units before it closed.
@ JW
You would be correct as only the 7th Cav has the right to use the name Garry Owen. Other compounds that temporarily used the name Garry Owen were, Camp Rice (Yongjugol) Camp McGovern and Camp Coursen. All compounds at the time the name was used were occupied by units of the 7th Cav.
I might also mention that Pelham was not renamed but only re-designated, as a renaming can only be done following 8th Army guidelines for it to be official. And the commander of the 7th Cav at Pelham did not follow the proper procedure and guidelines. Thus, when the camp closed, it closed as Camp Pelham in the 8th Army books.
Was at Garry Owen 84/85, A troop 4/7 Cav. The CO was William Shatuck. I recall the names of Glen Pelkey, Rae Howery, David Foster, Eric Leon, Lewy Grebin. Had a great time there in my youth, it was like another life. Like most, I have experienced some of the worst times as well as the best times while there, and to this day, damn near 30 years latter, I recall only the good times. I only spent 1 tour in the army but it allowed me to further my education upon my ETS. I’m close to 50 yrs old and often think back on my time in Korea and the great guys I met. What wonderful memories.
I was station at camp Pelham A Btry 2nd bn 19th FA,MAR 1962 April 1963. I liked the Soldiers also the South Korean people, really wouldn’t blame any of them for whatever they done.
I was stationed at Camp Edwards West in 1974. I was in Charlie Co. 702nd Maint Bat., 3rd shop and had some crazy times. Some of the people on base were Sgt Tripp ” Don’t let that biscuit ring Sparks, Sanutti, Staples, Brashears,Wortham, Spann,Evans and many others . The Tae Kwon Do instructor was Choi Song Sik, 8th degree black belt and truly a great master. We spent a lot of time in Yon Te Ri, the Tree Club and also at the “turkey farm”. We were rousted one night and told the North Koreans had come across Freedom Bridge and that this was the real deal. We had a Deuce and 1/2, a generator and 12 guys and we drove to Freedom Bridge that night with the top down, M60 at the ready and lots of rain. The North Koreans had driven a tank around a little and then went back. We also had some great party’s up near the helipad. One memorable band was the ” Nobody Like A Lizard Band”. This site brings back a LOT of memories.
I was in the 4/7 Cav at Camp Stanton in 78-79. Flew AH-1G Cobras during that tour. The little village that was basically just outside the gate of Stanton was called “Pie Won Knee”(Obviously not the correct spelling, but that’s how it was pronounced). One of the highlights of my tour at Stanton was the infamous naked march out of the officer’s club and through the village outside the gate. I was not a participant during this march (was in Seoul at the time), but there were some pilots that got in some real trouble over this midnight march which also included some very loud cadence that obviously woke the local residence out of bed … I wish I could have been there to see it! We also had the annual “Chicken Drop”. Aircrews would buy live chickens down in the village and do everything from rigging parachutes on them to placing them in cushioned boxes. We would then fly over the airfield at 1,000 ft in a UH-1 Huey, and the participants would drop there individual chicken … Closest chicken to the target on the airfield (the chicken had to survive the fall) would win the prize money. Anyway, we had some pretty good times at Stanton … Had some miserable times too.
I was at Camp Stanton from Jan 86 to Jan 87 when it was the ADA HHB. I worked in S-1 as a legal clerk and then as the distribution clerk. I would go to Kwang-tan to drink with the Koreans and get laid at the Korean whore houses. I did not live a “good” life while there, but I sure had some fun. Met a Korean named Jimmy who could speak English as well as any American. My friends’ name was Frank Alvarez & would like to be get in contact with him sometime as well as Paul Hansen.
KOREA IS THE ARMY’S BEST KEPT SECRET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Agent Orange Review, Vol 26 No.1 Winter 2012; Expands dates of agent orange from 1968-1969 to 1968-1971.I received a copy Mar 21,2013, I served in A Btry 2nd Bn 19th FA 1st CAV Div Camp Pelham, Mar 1962- 1963, I hopes this helps for somebody.
The info on Camp Garry Owen is incorrect. The camp name changed from Camp Rice to Camp Garry Owen in 1974. I was there when that happened. Camp Pelham is a different camp.
Ken Leighty asked: “I’m still trying to get a conclusive answer as to whether or not the former Camp Rice (Yongjugol) was renamed or just re-designated Garry Owen.”
Yes, the renaming was official. I was the squadron adjutant and did the paperwork to get the name changed. It was all done by the book.
Charles you are correct about the renaming of Camp Rice to Garry Owen for I to was there then. Not only was the name changed but the 8th Army helipad was removed if you remember and if I remember right a ball field or something else was put in its’ place. The CSM was CSM Hood and had not been there too long. I was the platoon sergeant for 3rd platoon in “C” Troop and was there from late June 73- July 74. Sure do miss those old days. I went to Fort Riley Ks. from there and in 76 volunteered to go back to Korea for my 3rd tour. I had orders for “A” troop, but when I got to the replacement station at Casey, the CSM from 1/72nd armor was told I was there and was told I was an E7 19E40 so he high jacked me and had my orders recut for “C” company 1/72. At first I was sort of ticked off, but at least I wound up with a great company of tankers and the tour turned out great. I did 3 tours there, January 1963- January 1964, 1 half with 7th ID, 40th Armor, then my company was moved across the Imjim and redesignated “A” company 1/15 Armor, of which I liked it better being on the “Z” for the duty was better and had more meaning. I retired 1 January 1987 after 24 1/2 years, and today 26 years later, I still miss those days. and the army life.
For several years, I have been trying to identify the post- referred to as “Camp Rice”. From ’64-’65, I was stationed at “Camp Rice”, which was about 1/4 mile over the bridge from Yogjugol to Taejepo. At that time, it was HQ and A Co., 27th (later 702nd) Maint. Bn. Most references- and video- do not seem to be the same Camp Rice- rather, the camp across from RC #1 in Yonjugol.
One of Ken Leighty’s pictures of Yonjugol, looking across the bridge into Taejepo, shows the original Camp Rice in the distance. Can anyone confirm that this is the camp that is being discussed here? Thanks for any help in clearing my confusion.
@ Jerry Schrag. Camp Rice was just as you described it. I was with the 545th MP’s in Yongu-gol from May, 1964 until June, 1965. 27th Maint was there when I was. Over the years I have become greatly confused with the Camp names because the names were shuffled around. My hootch was at Camp Custer at the base of Charlie block. I thought the compound across from CC-1 was known as Camp Beard but other’s have told me that Beard was actually the name of the compound that CC-1 was located.
I was stationed at camp pelham, Mar 1962-1963 A Btry 2nd bn 19th FA Bn 1ST cav Div Arty. I am 72 years old and old enough to be your great grand pa’s, and camp Pelham was called Camp rice before that, and the Village was named songju-ri and thats that.
William Mitchell…. I believe the army has tried their best to confuse us over the years. I remember a huge POL storage area in Sonyu-ri. I also remember that 15th S&T was not far away but at what we knew as Camp Pellam. You had to go through Slicky Boy corner in Munsan-ni and Pellam was on the right. Railroad track ran to it.
I was stationed at Garry Owen from 90 to 91, actually spent a few extra months in country because of stop loss for the Gulf War. Reading these posts bring back some great memories. From going downtown and falling in a turtle ditch because i was slightly intoxicated to trading MREs in the field for a hot cheesy ramen and a coke.I remember being amazed that we had beer in the soda machines in the barracks. We spent alot of time in the field freezing and dodging slicky boy, remember watching Cobra helicopters at a live fire and Koreans were beneath the birds with open trash bags catching the falling brass. Great Times Bros!
Beer in the Coke machines in the barracks. I remember that in ’84. You can bet your life that never happens these days. It truly was a different Army. Being a grunt up in the Z, I was always like “what the hell am I doing here”? But I look back with nothing but fond memories of a lot of crazy guys.
@Sam Leonard. They camp was Camp Beard. 2nd Bn. 15th Armor, 1st Cav. Div. I worked out of the MP Station that was next door to Beard 1964-65. The camp changed names later but I’m not sure what it became. I believe the camp was closed around 1970.
I remember CPT Shatuck. He gave me my first Article 15 (LOL) for black marketing. My RCP card got me. 1SG was Palomino (hoped I spelled it right). I was at Gary Owens from July 83 to Dec 84. I extended for 6 months as I did not want to leave as it was so fun. I remember Zettler from Arizona, Smith (Smitty) from NY, Ramos from Chicago and Stafford (?). Zettler was 3rd PLT in the quonset huts while the rest and I were in the barracks in 1st PLT. Talking about fun.
I was stationed at RC#4 which was right in the middle of these camps. We were a Vulcan Stinger Btry, 1988-1989, A btry 5/5/ ada 2nd inf.
There was also Camp Pellam which was field arty.
I consider that one year in nine years of service to be my favorite!
I just found this website and it brings back many memories. I spent two years 1977-79 on a mountaintop communications relay site just above Yongugol. I was part of 1st Signal Brigade. My recollection is that Camp Beard was the ROK Ranger training base at the base of the mountain where the site I worked was located. The pictures here look so different. A lot of time has passed. I spent a great deal of my time at Mr.Won’s gym studying Tae Kwon Do. He had many US students and also taught on Camp Stanton. In the 70′s the area had a rice field right in the middle of town. The communications site I was on deactivated in 79 after the link was reengineered to a new path. I’m planning a trip to Korea in the next couple years and hope to visit this area.
I served as an 11 Delta for C/4/7 at Camp Rice/Garry Owen from March ’74/May ’75. I turned 18 there. I drove a scout gun jeep for SSgt. Johnny Brannon from Tennessee. I remeber Pvt. Miller, Sgt. Quinata from Guam, ‘wee wet willie’ Willy Williams from Bloomington, Ill., and another tall, lanky, dark-haired fellow from Mansfield, Ohio with glasses – can’t remember your name. My Top was 1st Sergeant Rheinhart and CO was Capt. Miller, I believe. It’s been awhile. Anyone that served there during that time frame please contact me. I miss you guys!
Hi guys, I was at camp Howze ( Ville ) Dongducheon the end of 1971: with the combat engineers unit. 3 months later we moved to John C Pelham (ville) Seonyu-Ri. Then I became a (UP) unit police for the duration of my time. I had a bad industrial accident, I was hit by the bucket 2 1-2 cubic yard. That was 23 yrs. ago. I have a closed head injury. The only guy I remember was Billy Batson from Mo. Other then that if anybody remembers me please contact me at wildmanrd@yahoo.com Thanks guys.
Hi Rob, I was at Howze in ’84, but the Ville outside of it was not Dongduchong. It was Bong-Il-Chon. Although the truly correct name for the area is Paj, I think. Maybe I misread your post. Sorry you got hurt over there. All the best.
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