Tag: Korea

Do Juicy Girls Really Know What They Are Getting Themselves Into?

| February 28, 2012

Via a reader tip in the Open Thread comes this latest prostitution article in the Korea Times.  It seems like every couple of years some Korean reporter recycles the same prostitution and human trafficking angle to bash USFK with:

When Klarys (an alias), a 27-year-old from the Philippines, applied to come to Korea on an entertainment visa, she envisioned herself doing what she always wanted ― singing onstage.

But she says the E-6 visa was taken by her Korean promoter upon arrival and that the vision rapidly began to slip away. And very quickly, she says, so did control over her life.

The club she was taken to outside a U.S. military installation had little to do with music. Rather, she said it was a gateway to a seedy industry of entertaining soldiers ― a world where activists claim sex trafficking is not uncommon.

“For me, it was an opportunity to go abroad,” Klarys told The Korea Times. “But I got here and I was dancing on a pole. We were forced to go out (and have sex with) with whoever. You can’t say no.”  [Korea Times]

Considering how long women from the Philippines have been coming to Korea she likely knew full well she was going to be working in a sleazy bar.  As far as prostitution she can say no but the way the club system is set up she will likely make no money if she can’t sell the drinks:

She estimated that thousands of them now work in “juicy bars” outside the bases, saying soldiers ― despite the military’s “zero-tolerance policy” toward prostitution ― buy glasses of juice in order to spend time, flirt and dance with the women. Those women who fail to meet a quota for juice sales are often subject to “bar fines,” meaning they are told to sell their body to account for the shortfall, she said.

I usually say read the rest at the link but don’t bother because it is more of the same of juicy girls saying they were virgins before coming to Korea and expecting to sing and dance and not be involved in prostitution which then forced them to get hooked on drugs.  If you can believe it they make a claim that is all the girls from the Philippines that go to Japan, sing and dance and are not involved in prostitution.  So the article is the typical media BS to bash USFK with when the solution to human trafficking is quite simple, get the ROK government to stop issuing the entertainer visas to women in the Philippines.  But wait that would also dry up the far larger supply of Filippinas sent to work in Korean brothels, which the article makes no mention of.

I continue to maintain that the best way to handle the issue of human trafficking is to put clubs that hire third country nationals off limits.  Most of the Filipina’s working in these clubs know what they are getting into and human trafficking in general has been greatly reduced in Korea in recent years.  However, as long Filipinas are working in juicy bars there will continue to the perception of human trafficking that will follow USFK that the media will continue to jump on.  By forcing the bars to employ Korean workers it would pretty much make the human trafficking issue go away because Korean nationals would be much harder to traffic in.  The people that will lose if bars with 3rd country nationals are put off limits are the bar owners that will make less money because they will have to pay Korean women more money for doing the same thing these Filipina women are doing.

GI Flashbacks: The 2005 Osan Shakedown Scandal

| November 28, 2011

Anyone familiar with the villes in South Korea outside the US military bases knows that these areas are pretty seedy and filled with questionable characters.  Most of these questionable characters are some of the bar and business owners looking to fleece as much money from USFK servicemembers as possible.  However, there are times when some of the USFK servicemembers are just bad as some of these questionable business owners and there is no better example of this than the 2005 Osan Shakedown Scandal.  In March 2005 news broke that the leader of the 51st Security Squadron town patrol 1st Lieutenant Jason D. Davis was regularly shaking down local club owners in the Songtan entertainment district outside of Osan Air Base.  Davis was accused of accepting bribes, gifts, and sex with women at the clubs in exchange for not putting the clubs off limits.  Here is a picture of Davis from his days as a cadet at the Citadel, which he

jason davis pic

Davis as the head of the 51st Security Forces Squadron’s town patrol had the ability to put the clubs outside of Osan AB off limits for 24 hours before being reviewed by his leadership for further action.  Davis used this power to threaten club owners with being put off limits if they didn’t provide him with free drinks and prostitutes. He would do this by executing unauthorized sting operations:

He said Davis also had him take part in unauthorized “sting” operations in which Dooge and other airmen would enter clubs and try to buy alcohol or try to arrange sexual liaisons with bar girls — a process known as “bar fining” and a violation of U.S. Forces Korea policy.  [Stars & Stripes]

Davis would then go on to strike up a relationship with the daughter of a club owner.  The Korean woman Kim Mun-hui would then go on to give Davis a number of gifts such as a Chrysler Sebring, a Rolex watch, Louis Vuitton slippers, cash, free drinks, and even a vacation to Guam.  Kim however would go on to become the person responsible for the ultimate down fall of Davis.  However, during Davis’ corruption spree he rented out an apartment outside Osan AB just so he could have a place to have sex with all the various women he was hooking up with in the clubs.  He was doing all this while he was still married to a woman back in the US.

On top of all of this 1LT Jason Davis was a bully to the people that worked underneath him:

Airman 1st Class Nathan D. Dooge, formerly of the 51st Security Forces Squadron, said Davis pressured him to house-sit Davis’ dogs without pay.

Davis encouraged him to drink alcoholic beverages although he was 19 and under the legal drinking age, Dooge testified.  (…………)

In addition, Dooge testified, Davis fired plastic pellets at him from an airgun, locked him for about 30 minutes in the squadron’s women’s dressing room and refused to release him.

1LT Davis’ world of corruption would come crashing down in February 2005 when his Korean girlfriend Kim Mun-hui contacted Osan authorities to say she had been raped by Davis.  This likely wasn’t true because according to unconfirmed rumors this was probably an attempt by Kim to get back at Davis for cheating on her when she found out Davis took a trip to Russia to meet up with one of his Russian girlfriends there.  The Korean police would also go on to charge Davis with keeping a firearm in the off post apartment he kept.  The Korean authorities would ultimately pursue only minor gun charges against Davis, but nevertheless the cat was now out of the bag and authorities at Osan AB were going to have to do something about it.

What is really amazing about the whole Osan Shakedown Scandal is that who knows how long Davis would have been allowed to get away with his corrupt dealings without the rape charge?

The court martial of 1LT Davis was handled very carefully with it being executed during Chusok to probably avoid Korean press coverage.  There was also a pre-trial agreement put in place that assured that the court martial would be over quickly. Also the Korean girl that Davis had a romantic relationship with that exposed his activities to begin with didn’t testify assuring that possible juicy details not already made public was not exposed during the court martial. Davis faced up to 21 years in jail if he was convicted of all the charges he was faced with, but due to the pre-trial agreement this is what 1LT Davis ended up being convicted of:

Davis pleaded guilty to running illicit police undercover operations, accepting gifts and cash from club owners, maintaining illicit sexual liaisons with bar girls, breaking the U.S. military’s curfew that the town patrol had the duty of enforcing, being drunk and disorderly, having sex with women who were not his wife, illegally possessing weapons, illegally keeping an off-base apartment, using racial and ethnic slurs, filing a leave request with false information as to his intended destination and maintaining an improper relationship with a subordinate airman.

Davis only received a two year sentence for all of these crimes.  Servicemembers convicted for something as simple as BAH fraud have received sentences similar to what Davis received. Most interesting is that Davis did not have to forfeit all pay and allowances, which meant he would still be getting paid as a lieutenant while in prison.  The only reason I think of the judge did not impose this penalty is that he wanted to make sure that Davis’ wife back in the US still had income to take care of herself.  Something else that is strange about what he was convicted of was the fact that despite admitting to having sex with various bar girls he was not convicted of any prostitution and human trafficking charges.  Even more strange was the fact that the ROK authorities pursued no real charges against Davis for his crimes.  Not pursuing the rape allegation I understand considering how Kim would not cooperate with authorities.  However, why wasn’t Davis pursued in Korean courts for thee shakedowns he was conducting off duty?  If the anti-US groups want to complain about US servicemembers getting away with crimes here is a perfect example of this, but it has nothing to do with the SOFA and everything to do with ROK authorities not pursuing the case.  Probably to at least create the appearance of doing something the ROK authorities did fine Davis $4,800 for keeping an illegal firearm in his apartment:

But according to testimony in a June 10 pretrial hearing into the Air Force’s charges against Davis, Korean National Police officers found firearms when, armed with a warrant, they searched an off-base apartment Davis was accused of keeping illegally. Agents of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations joined in the March 1 search, according to hearing testimony.

Police allegedly found various weapons and ammunition. Air Force special agent Etai Shpak testified at the June hearing that police found two pistols and one shotgun, a rifle, and various types of ammunition.

Among other weapons allegedly found during the raid, Shpak said, were brass knuckles, thumbcuffs and pepper spray. Korean officers seized the weapons, he testified.  [Stars & Stripes]

Where did these weapons come from?  Are they Air Force weapons?  If so what type of weapons accountability did the 51st Security Squadron have?  If they are not Air Force weapons then how did Davis get them into the country?  If he smuggled them into the country shouldn’t he have received far greater punishment for weapons smuggling?  Additionally what was he using these weapons for?  The amount of unanswered questions regarding the weapons charges is really amazing.  This guy is able to shake Koreans down for sex, money, and gifts and have a number of illegal firearms in his apartment and only gets a $4,800 fine.

Anyway despite the light punishment Davis received from the US court martial he appealed the conviction and tried to get his sentence reduced.  If you can believe it the appeals court actually dropped the negligent dereliction of duty charge against Davis:

An issue not raised, but addressed by this Court, concerns Specification 5 of Additional Charge I. The appellant was convicted, in accordance with his plea by exceptions and substitutions, of negligent dereliction of duty. The specification at issue, after exceptions and substitutions, states “…was derelict in the performance of those duties in that he negligently conducted ‘sting operations’ against Songtan-area business establishments, as it was his duty to do.” (Emphasis added). This Specification fails to state an offense, and is therefore dismissed.  [USAF Court of Criminal Appeals]

Ultimately the light sentence Davis received has only fed into the conspiracy stories surrounding this case that he received the light sentence in order to keep him quiet about higher level corruption at Osan AFB.  It seems to me that if no one in 51st Security Squadron or the Armed Forced Disciplinary Control Board (AFDCB) was aware of what Davis was doing then at the very least they were derelict in their responsibilities.  I’m not saying his chain of command was in on the corruption, I’m saying they may have been told what was going on and decided not to believe it or were too lazy to investigate it thus leading back to my theory they were derelict.  Davis deserved to go to jail and should have received more time then he received, but I would hope the leadership in his chain of command at Osan AB were at least administratively held responsible for what happened.  Maybe that was done I don’t know, however the only thing that was done publicly was that most members of the town patrol were reassigned to different jobs.  Considering all the unanswered questions and lack of accountability for those involved, is it any wonder why the conspiracy theories surrounding the Osan Shakedown Scandal have never gone away?

Note: You can read more GI Flashbacks articles by clicking on the below link: 

Professor Zhu Feng Answers Questions About China’s North Korea Policies

| November 23, 2011

Last month ROK Drop readers may remember that the Lowy Institute was offering to have reader provided questions answered by Chinese Professor Zhu Feng.  I offered a number of questions and two of them were presented to Mr. Feng to answer.  Here is the answer Professor Feng gave in regards to the repatriation of North Korean refugees:

What does Professor Zhu Feng think of the forced repatriation of refugees back to North Korea where they are either imprisoned or executed?

I think it’s a controversial issue, but the problem is that if China refuses to repatriate that would signal that Beijing wants to bring down the North Korean regime. So I know such repatriation is cold blooded, and it’s a big embarrassment for China’s policy on North Korea. I have to say, China’s policy implementation in this regard always keeps one eye open the other eye closed. Officially, we will repatriate, but in practice we keep the net quite loose.  [The Interpreter]

You can read more at the link such as what Mr. Zhu thinks of the “Glans Plan” as well as current Chinese policies towards North Korea.  By the way thank you to the Lowy Institute for hosting this as well as to Professor Zhu Feng for agreeing to answer questions from readers.  I recommend ROK-Heads check out the Lowy Institute’s website The Interpreter which provides some good reads for those interested in Asia-Pacific issues.

Update On the Mapo GI Rape Case

| November 21, 2011

It is looking more and more like the Mapo GI rape case doesn’t have much evidence to support it considering how long it is taking to get an indictment.  Here is an update on the case provided by the Marmot’s Hole:

According to the Herald Gyeongje, Women Corea released a statement today demanding that Seoul Seobu prosecutors quickly indict the GI accused of sexually assaulting a teenage girl in Mapo and steeling her notebook computer. They noted it’s been over half a month since police turned the case over to the prosecutors to decide whether to indict, but prosecutors have not indicted the GI. This means the prosecutors, who hold “absolute power,” is minding USFK.

They also warned—perhaps unaware of the impact such a warning could have on any future discussions over amending the SOFA—that if the prosecutors didn’t quickly indict the suspect, they would run up against public resistance.

In response, a high-ranking prosecutor said prosecutors will still conducting additional investigations, and that the indictment wasn’t coming any later than it would in other cases. He also stressed that the suspect and USFK was cooperating fully with the investigation and that he and his office were not carrying out a lazy investigation or minding USFK.  [Marmot’s Hole]

This case reminds me of the policewoman rape case where the evidence didn’t support what happened but the GI was indicted and convicted anyway likely due to public pressure at the time.  After the media sensationalism died down the GI appealed the sentence and his conviction was overturned by the appeals court.  I can see the same thing happening here.  The prosecutors may just be waiting to see if the media attention dies down or not before making a decision to indict him.  If the media attention doesn’t die down they will probably go ahead and indict and convict him despite the lack of evidence and then let the appeals court let him go after the media attention dies down.

Picture of the Day: Lonestar Protest

| November 20, 2011

Leaders of Korea Exchange Bank’s union attempt to enter the building of the Financial Services Commission (FSC) in Seoul on Nov. 18, 2011, as the FSC holds a meeting to discuss whether to order Lone Star Funds to sell most of its stake in Korea Exchange Bank. The workers are calling for the authorities to impose a punitive measure against Lone Star’s stake sale, such as ordering the fund to sell its share on the market, in a bid to prevent the buyout fund from pocketing more than twice the money it spent on purchasing KEB stocks. Via Yonhap.

US & Korea to Discuss New SOFA Guidelines for GI Crime Suspects

| November 19, 2011

This is pretty much just something to appease the masses in Korea who believe all the lies put out by the media and anti-US activists that claim that the Korean police are unable to investigate crimes due to the big, bad SOFA:

South Korea and the U.S. will discuss introducing new guidelines on investigating American soldiers suspected of crimes in a meeting of the South Korea-U.S. Status of Forces Agreement Joint Committee.

In the meeting slated for Wednesday, Seoul will ask Washington to “positively consider” South Korean investigative authorities’ request to transfer American suspects accused of crimes into the custody of the South before indictment.

The new guidelines will be similar to those that the U.S. and Japan agreed to after a rape case involving a U.S. soldier in Okinawa in 1995. After the rape case, the U.S. agreed to “favorably consider” handing over suspects accused of heinous crimes to Japan before they have been indicted.   [KBS Global]

I long ago showed the problems with the anti-US activists complaints about the US-ROK SOFA and I am still awaiting for one person to point out an example of a crime committed by a GI off duty and the USFK refused to hand him over?  The anti-US activists keep complaining about GI’s getting away with crimes and can’t point out a specific example of when this happened.

South Korea to “Toughen” Sex Crime Penalties

| October 11, 2011

It is always interesting to read articles like this shortly after Koreans are complaining about GI sex offenders getting off light when in fact in Korea all sex offenders get off light:

sexual assault korea image
Image via Global Voices.

Teachers and aspiring teachers will be permanently barred from working at schools, if they have a record of being convicted or fined for sex crimes, the government said Friday, announcing a set of new measures to crack down on sexual abuse of young students, especially disabled teens.

The measures call for raising the maximum jail term for rapists of the disabled from the current three years to five years and forcing all convicted of sexual attacks on the disabled to wear an electronic anklet.

In addition, those suspected of sexually abusing the disable can be indicted even without a complaint from the victim, under the government’s bid to eliminate possible loopholes in the current law.

The measures focused on toughening punishment for sex crimes on the disabled come amid the popularity of a Korean film based on the appalling real-life story of teachers sexually abusing their disabled students for years.

The film “Dogani,” whose English title is “The Crucible,” prompted public outcry not only because the crime happened at a Gwangju school for the disabled for years from 2000 but also because the convicted teachers received light punishments.

Of the six teachers charged, only two received actual jail terms, both less than a year, with the others getting suspended terms and acquitted of charges mainly because the victims’ parents agreed to cancel their accusations in return for compensation.  [Korea Herald]

This reminds me of the case three years ago when a mentally handicapped teenager was repeatedly raped by family members who all received suspended sentences and then were given custody of the teenager after the verdict.  Heck in Korea you can receive more time in jail for stealing a cell phone than for rape.

Now compare this punishment and even the new tougher sex crime penalties to the 30 years in a US military jail that a Camp Jackson NCO received for rape.  This was a case where the victim’s parents asked the US military to keep jurisdiction of the case instead of being tried in a Korean court because they knew the US military would give a harsher sentence.

Exposing the Donga Ilbo’s GI Crime Lies

| October 11, 2011

Thanks to the ROK Heads who have shared this article with me which is one of the biggest examples of shoddy journalism I have seen in quite a while in the Korean media.  This article is in the Donga Ilbo in response to the recent GI crime incidents.  I will quote the article in full and then provide my comments after various passages:

The string of sexual crimes committed by American soldiers in Korea in recent weeks is known to have resulted from reckless recruitment of men with criminal records, mental disorders or other problems.

According to U.S. Defense Department data released in 2008 by House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Rep. Henry Waxman, the number of U.S. Army recruits convicted of felonies such as robbery or assault more than doubled from 249 (based on U.S. Army statistics) in 2006 to 511 in 2007.

Waxman blamed unconditional recruitment of soldiers amid a shortage of military manpower due to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Felony Recruiting Myth

First of all the two soldiers accused of rape were both 21 year old Private First Classes so they were not recruited in 2006 so the linkage to felony waivers that year is irrelevant.  Since the Donga-Ilbo wants to bring this subject up I have already debunked the felony recruiting myth years ago but I will address it again here.

Over 180,000 soldiers were recruited into the military in 2007 and only 903 recruits needed a waiver.  That is .5016% of all recruits that needed a waiver which is hardly of concern.  Also the claim that felony waivers are needed to meet recruiting numbers doesn’t hold up either.  In 2007 the US Army recruited 80,635 soldiers.  511 of the soldiers had the felony waivers.  If the US Army did not allow in every recruit with a felony waiver they still would have met the recruiting mission of 80,000 soldiers in 2007.  The other important thing to realize is that these waivers are only issued on a case by case basis and signed off on by a senior field grade officer.  The vast majority of the waivers are thefts and drug crimes.  So if a teenager writes a bad check, shoplifts, or gets caught smoking marijuana, they shouldn’t be allowed in the military?  If anything these are probably people that need to join the military to learn discipline.  Out of all the felony waivers in 2007 only five were for sex crimes.  Yes five people out of 80,000 recruited that year by the Army and this is something that is supposed to be leading to increased sexual assaults in Korea?  By the way anyone wonder how many servicemembers in the ROK Army have felony convictions especially sex crimes?  Maybe the Korean media has looked into this before, but I sure haven’t seen it.

The GI Crime Myth

The Donga Ilbo article goes on:

Analysts say crimes committed by American soldiers in Korea have increased in number because a considerable portion of inexperienced soldiers are deployed to Korea. The number of crimes committed by American soldiers in Korea surged from 207 in 2007 to 316 in 2010.

First of all young men whether they are in the military or not cause more crime than older men.  So it is no surprise that younger enlisted Soldiers commit the majority of the crime.  However, sending nothing but older personnel to Korea is unfeasible.  You cannot have a military force filled with nothing but NCO’s and officers.  Any military that is effective needs to be filled with young men trained to fight.  The second thing I will point out from this passage is that these stats are not attributed to anyone.  Where did the Donga-Ilbo gets these stats from?  As ROK Heads know I have compiled USFK crime stats for years here on the ROK Drop from the USFK court martial results published every month just to be able to respond to blatant media fabrications which this obviously is.

Here is the real number of crimes committed by USFK servicemembers the last two years:

Number of Crimes Committed

  • 2009: 98 crimes
  • 2010: 153 crimes

As you can see this is much lower than what the Donga-Ilbo is claiming.  So once again where did they get their stats?  Also here is the number of USFK servicemembers convicted of crimes in Korean courts for the past 4 years:

USFK Servicemembers Convicted In Korean Courts

2007: 48 criminals
2008: 66 criminals
2009: 87 criminals
2010: 128 criminals

So overall there has been an increase in USFK crime, but not as bad as what the Donga-Ilbo is claiming.  Also something else the Donga-Ilbo doesn’t point out is that the increase in crime is caused mostly by the fact that USFK is allowing more of its personnel to drive cars which means increased driving infractions that are handled by the Korean courts.  Here is a list of traffic related crimes from 2010 compared to 2007.  My one caveat is that bodily injuries are usually from injuries sustained from a traffic accident, but this is not always the case.  Unfortunately the criminal prosecution results published by USFK don’t specify why the servicemember was convicted for bodily injury.  So all bodily injuries being traffic related is an assumption on my part.  Anyway here are the statistics:

Traffic Crimes from 2009 Compared to 2010

  • Bodily Injury – 2007: 8 – 2010: 22
  • Traffic Law Violation – 2007: 0 – 2010: 11
  • Hit & Run – 2007: 1 – 2010: 9
  • DUI’s – 2007: 13 – 2010: 28
  • Violation of Auto Management Act – 2007: 0 – 2010: 3
  • Total Traffic Crimes – 2007: 22 – 2010: 73

The driving change can be linked to an increase of up to 51 crimes in 2010 compared to 2007.  This is important context when talking about GI crime that is not reported by the Donga-Ilbo.  With that said that is why I have always believed that the best way to judge GI crime is to look at major crimes committed.  The Korean National Policy Agencyconsiders Murder, Burglary, Rape, Larceny, & Assault as major crimes when compiling Korean crime statistics.  So lets compare the number of major crimes from 2010 to prior years:

USFK Rate of Major Crimes from 2007-2010

  • 2007 – 23
  • 2008 – 15
  • 2009 – 21
  • 2010 – 48

So what crimes is causing the numbers to increase?  When the numbers are analyzed the major crimes increased in 2010 because of because of burglary and assaults.  Why are these crimes increasing?  I don’t have the data to prove anything but it could be the curfew change has allowed servicemembers to be out later and thus increasing the amount of time available to get into altercations with Koreans.  Like I said before this is just a theory with no data to support it since the court martial results do not provide any times when the incidents occurred.

The most important fact to point out is that despite the increase in GI crime, USFK still has a lower per capita crime rate than the general Korean population:

  • Korea: 1 major crime out of every 128 people
  • USFK: 1 major crime out of every 594 people

What is also interesting it was just back in July when it was reported that overall crime in the 2nd Infantry Division had dropped over the past 12 month period which the police chief of Dongducheon said was because of better educated Soldiers coming to Korea.

The SOFA Myth

Anyway the shoddy journalism from the Donga Ilbo continues:

Despite mounting crimes committed by American servicemen here, no effective measures or regulations are in place to punish them. Clause 5 under Article 22 of the Status of Forces Agreement on the deployment of U.S. forces in Korea suggests that even if an American soldier commits a violent crime such as murder or rape, Korean police can take the suspect into custody only when they directly catch him at the crime scene.

All the Korean authorities have to do is fill out paperwork requesting that a USFK servicemember be handed over to Korean custody.  This is done to ensure that the rights of the accused servicemember are protected. A SOFA is a document signed between the United States and the host country of US military personnel in order to clarify each side’s rights and responsibilities in regards to a variety of issues that arise with the stationing of US troops in a foreign country.

A SOFA between different nations is never the same because each nation has different legal and political systems that influence the way in which a SOFA is written. For example in the United States people expect that someone accused of a crime should have the right to remain silent and have access to lawyer. With that it is important to realize with Status of Forces Agreements is that unlike civilians, troops are ordered to go overseas. Since troops are under orders they are owed the legal protections they would find in the United States. Ambassador Thomas Hubbard summarizes this best, “we sent them under our system, and we owe them those protections.”

Not all countries the United States has troops in respect these rights. For example the SOFA between the US and Japan allows the military to hold servicemembers accused of crimes until they are indicted by a Japanese court, to which then they are handed over to Japanese authorities. This holding of the servicemember prior to indictment is to protect their rights to remain silent, not to have coercive interrogation tactics used against them, and have access to a proper lawyer, which is not something readily available to them if held by local Japanese authorities. It is legal differences such as this that make detailed status of forces agreements necessary.

You can read more analysis about the SOFA at this link:

The Donga Ilbo’s criticism against the SOFA is especially ridiculous considering that USFK just handed over the Soldier accused of rape in Dongducheon just like all other GI criminals after the Korean authorities submitted the proper paperwork for his transfer.

The Donga Ilbo goes on:

In other cases, Korean police must hand over the suspect to U.S. authorities if requested.

Moreover, the U.S. military has the right to reject Korea’s request to put a suspect in detention if and when it finds even a slight chance that the soldier’s rights could be infringed on in a Korean criminal investigation or trial by a Korean court. For this reason, U.S. soldiers who commit crimes are detained mostly by military police of their own units rather than Korean authorities.

In addition, if the U.S. demands that Korea hand over jurisdiction, the latter has no choice but to do so except in cases in which the crimes are deemed “exceptionally serious.” For this reason, Korea has used its jurisdiction over a U.S. military suspect in less than 5 percent of all crimes committed by American soldiers stationed here.

Why doesn’t the Donga-Ilbo provide one example of when USFK refused to hand someone over?  Just one please.  Also once again, where did the stat of 5% come from?

Shady Statistics

Here in the final passage I think we can probably attribute all these shady statistics to this well known anti-US group:

A source at the National Campaign for Eradication of Crimes by U.S. Troops in Korea said, “To minimize punishment, U.S. authorities arbitrarily judge that most crimes were committed while on official duty and thus take away jurisdiction over cases from Korean authorities,” adding, “Even in cases where Korea holds jurisdiction, only one to two U.S. soldiers as defendants are given prison sentences per year.”

The utter lies allowed to be published in the Donga-Ilbo is really astounding.  Once again can the Donga Ilbo provide examples of all these people getting away with being tried in Korean courts because USFK says they were on duty?  The only examples I can think of are traffic accidents while driving military vehicles with the most famous example being the 2002 Armored Vehicle Incident.  I would like just one example of a non-traffic related incident such as assault or rape where a GI was declared on duty to avoid being tried in a Korean court.  I would like just one example.  Then the claim that 1-2 servicemembers are given prison sentences per year in Korean courts is more lies.  Just looking back at the ROK criminal prosecution results for this year, 7 GI’s were given prison sentences.  So once again where did the anti-US groups stat come from?

USFK Needs To Do More

So I think I have made it pretty clear that this article is filled with lies that the Donga-Ilbo should be embarrassed by, but I’m sure they could care less because they are out to promote perceptions of American GI’s instead of facts.  I just wish the USFK public affairs office would do more to counter this blatant propaganda instead of allowing it to circulate unchallenged in the Korean media.  As long as USFK doesn’t dispute these lies by engaging the Korean media in Korean then the false stereotypes that many Koreans have of American GI’s will continue perpetuate.

A Profile of Korea’s Teokgeo-ri Ville

| August 13, 2011

Narrative

The city of Dongducheon is well known for being home to Camp Casey and soldiers from the 2nd Infantry Division.  This has made the Bosan-dong ville across the street from Camp Casey the main shopping and bar area for Soldiers stationed at the camp.  However, Bosan-dong isn’t the only ville in the Dongducheon area.  Camp Hovey is a smaller camp accessed from Camp Casey by a small valley known as the Hovey Cut between the two camps.  Just outside the gate of Camp Hovey is the small village of Teokgeo-ri:


Note that Teokgeo-ri has been spelled Toko-ri in the past.

At one time Teokgeo-ri was one of the sleaziest villes you could find in Korea since the clubs had to go out of their way to attract GI customers from the much larger and popular TDC Ville.  If you have ever watched the first Stars Wars movie and remember the bar with the space aliens in it in the city of Mos Eisley, that is what Teokgeo-ri was like a few years ago.

Obi-wan Kenobi once described Mos Eisley as a “wretched hive of scum and villainy”, Toko-ri wasn’t much different. However, instead of horned, green, or beady eyed aliens, Teokgeo-ri had Filipino and Russian juicy girls covered in chocolate and wax, a retarded barmaid, strippers that used to hold what was known as the P***y Olympics led by a Korean woman known as the Dragon Lady who did anatomy defying things with cigars and beer bottles, and to top it off there was even a midget. Before I had even ever stepped foot in Korea I had heard about the “Midget of Teokgeo-ri” from old crusty NCOs about how they used to “stick to the midget” especially on New Years; that is how well known she is in the US military. After seeing the midget for myself I can’t imagine why anyone would want to “stick it to the midget”, but hey to each their own.

Since I don’t have anything to do with the ville any more I’m not sure if any of this still goes on, but from what I hear Teokgeo-ri has really died down and even the midget has left the ville in recent years.  I hear that the clubs in an effort to stand out from their competition in the TDC ville are more active in prostitution.  Anyone know if this perception is true or not?

I started my walk around Teokgeo-ri from the main road that runs through the center of town.  From this road I noticed the first club I saw called the Black Jack:

As I continued to walk down the road I also saw the Fox Woods Club:

At the end of the street the road leads to Highway 364 which is a scenic drive up and over the mountains to Pocheon. I took a left and followed a small side road that leads to Camp Hovey:

The side road follows a creek on its eastern side and on the western side are more buildings from the village.  Here is the view looking across the creek towards the farm land from the side road:

Here is the view of the buildings I was approaching as I walked down the road:

This cluster of buildings were more clubs servicing Soldiers from Camp Hovey.  The first club with the Joy Club:

Next was Club Bounce and Club Hooah:

Here is the view looking back at these clubs:

Here is the view of the creek that runs through Teokgeo-ri and also flows through both Camp Hovey and Camp Casey:

This creek looks harmless enough now but when there is sustained rain this creek can really get swollen and flood which is something Camp Casey and Hovey experienced in recent years.

Here is view looking in the other direction across the rice paddies that border Teokgeo-ri:

As I walked further down the road I came upon this bridge that crosses the river:

Across the bridge there is a road that leads to Beaver’s.  Beaver’s is a BBQ restaurant frequented by US Soldiers that has been the subject of controversy in the past.  However, it was about this time that I started getting rained on pretty heavily and just decided to walk back to my car as quickly as possible instead:

As walked down the road Camp Hovey came into view:

The road in front me leads through this narrow ville, which I have had a few interesting times trying to drive a Humvee through before:

Instead of walking down the road towards Camp Hovey I took a left and headed back towards the downtown section of the city instead:

Along the way I walked by this US Army friendly hotel:

I then walked by the villages Post Office that appears to be having a problem with people leaving trash on their premises:

Here is a picture of a chicken and beer joint I passed as I walked through the ville:

Here is a side street in the middle of Teokgeo-ri I then followed where more clubs are located:

First is the DMZ Club:

Then there is the Grand Illusion:

Followed by Club NBA:

Here is the view looking back down the street at the clubs that I walked by:

From this street I then walked up a side alley to take me back to where I parked on the main road through town:

Along this road I saw few more clubs such as Club Obsession:

I then walked by the UN Club:

After coming back upon the main road through Teokgeo-ri I noticed a sign for the D&G Club:

Right next to the D&G Club was what was left of this burned down club:

Here is one final view of downtown Teokgeo-ri:

Conclusion

If it wasn’t for the fact that Teokgeo-ri is a sleazy ville it actually would be a nice place to live due to its scenic location.  The valley is quite beautiful and some people are starting to take notice of this fact as more and more large and expensive homes are being built along the hills around Teokgeo-ri.  I do have to say that in the past 10 years Teokgeo-ri has come a long ways and is not as sleazy as it once was.  Who knows maybe some day after the US military relocates from Dongducheon to Camp Humphreys further down south, maybe Teokgeo-ri will become an area more affluent people build their homes to take advantage of the village’s beautiful scenery?  With that said that concludes my walk around Teokgeo-ri.  If anyone has anything they want to add about the various clubs in the village and experiences they had in Teokgeo-ri in the past please share with everyone in the comments section.

Note: You can read more from the ROK Drop featured series “A Profile of USFK Bases” at the below link:

Comments

The flood in ’98 spawned most of the rebuilding you see today. While they have slightly polished the turd, it’s still a worthless cesspool of Horny GIs ,Flip whores, Soju laden Whiskey and Skunk OB.

I am wondering if there is any such thing as “skunk OB”.

In all the years of selling Korean beer, I never had a complaint about any of the beer tasting skunky.

Nor, outside of a GI ville, have I had strange-tasting Korean beer.

I suspect that “skunk OB” has more to do with the habit of GI bars refilling used bottles with draft beer and loosely recapping them by thumb in the afternoon.

Then, they go into the beer cooler where they loose much of their fizz and freshness after a day or three.

Ajuma brings them to the table with rapidly popped caps and nobody is the wiser.

Poor OB, which runs a squeaky-clean stainless steel and glass brewery where robots do most of the work, gets blamed for making skunky beer.

Some people deny this is possible. One guy wanted to argue that there was no way ajuma could serve him a refilled beer… he “would just know”. Besides, “I can hear the hiss when the cap comes off.” He denied my skepticism that anybody could here that in a noisy bar.

While he explained the intricacies of differentiating the nuances of opened and unopened beer, I kept eye contact, picked up an empty bottle off the bar, pressed a cap on it with my thumb… RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM… and said, “Gosh, dude. I guess you are right. Let me buy you a beer.” I popped the top with an opener.

His attitude changed. “Thanks, man!” He lifted it back for a swig… and, of course, nothing came out.

In the history of stupid looks, it was in the top ten.

I was just up in that area today…had a lot of flood damage to many of the clubs. The Americans helped out quite a bit cleaning out their own favorite watering holes though!

“Poor OB, which runs a squeaky-clean stainless steel and glass brewery where robots do most of the work, gets blamed for making skunky beer.”

Who gets the blame for their recipes?

“Who gets the blame for their recipes?”

Budweiser.

Though this all looks scrubbed and clean compared to the Korea I remember from 1983 I sure do want to come back and take a tour. I really appreciate the photo journalism pages like this I’m finding on this site! Thanks

Just don’t make the mistake of going in December when it’s 14 below…

Note that the clubs are all several stories tall and windowless. All of the clubs are on the ground floor. What’s in the floors, above?

That is where the CSW’s are held (can’t escape if there are no windows….)

#5,

Directly or indirectly? And,while I’m at it since you know a thing or two about the booze business in Korea…Why are Korean breweries’ new products so bad?

A little useless Teokgeo-ri trivia that I learned from someone born and raised there.

The first syllable in the name is “tuk” (턱), which is the Korean word for “chin.” The second and third syllables are the word “geo-ri” (거리), which is the Korea word that has several related meanings, such as distance, range, an interval, a difference or a gap.

So…how/why did these two words get combined to make the name of a small mountainous village?

There are several trails up in the mountains, some of which are somewhat dangerous because one errant step and you could find yourself going down. So if someone took a wrong step, he/she could easily find him or herself falling into a cavity/depression of some sort and quickly be up to his/her chin in a hole. Thus, you fell to a depth (distance) “up to your chin.”

And so the name Teokgeo-ri was born.

Without giving it any thought – 99%+ of the people would guess the “ri” part of the name is the “ri” (리 里) that means village. But this is a rare case of a village name that ends with “ri” – and the “ri” means something other than village. Also, most Korean place names have Chinese characters behind the hangul spellings – but not this village. It’s name is pure Korean.

Teadrinker,

Have you not noticed that everybody is producing a “safe”, lowest-common-denominatior one-size-fits-all product?

This ranges from TV/movies/music to snacks/chain restaurants/beer to uninspired fashion/cars/consumer electronics.

Unique and appealing stuff is available… but it costs substantially more than the dreck passed off on the masses.

This is a side effect of the perverse form of macroeconomics currently being practiced and passed off as “capitalism”.

It would take pages and pages to explain… but some key points are… governments discourage small-scale innovation through over-regulation, employment law, and tax structure… large companies discourage anything but managed competition from their peers… the financial companies encourage stagnation through formula risk management… and short-term, golden parachute CEOs worrie about short-term gain at the expense of long-term failure, etc.

(Another interesting aspect is when this system fails, there will be many wagging their fingers and happily touting the “failure of capitalism”.)

So… with all this, every beer tastes like Budweiser… the lowest form of beer that is not exactly unpleasant… but certainly isn’t much more special than water.

Small companies interested in making great beer at a lower profit can’t get the approval or financing to get started and the big companies work together to keep it that way… and then they collectively try to shave pennies of cost off the thousand gallon tank by using inferior ingredients or faster processes which result in lower quality products across the board… but, with an army of focus groups, they are able to choose something the public will tolerate if they have no other choice… and then, after some time, the public forgets and the new crap becomes the new standard.

If all the contrived regulations and permits didn’t exist, any one of us could make fantastic beer out of our houses and sell it on the street at a reasonable price and make a reasonable profit… quickly becoming competition with the swill producers.

It can be done… but it requires big money. Gone are the days of Ma and Pa starting a big company out of their house and building the business one step at a time all on their own. Everyone from the big companies to the financial institutions to the government they control don’t want it to be that easy or that independent.

Actually, America has some great microbreweries but the big 3 (Bud, Miller, Coors) control distribution and lock them out best they can.

Prohibition killed many breweries and the small ones primarily came back because of one man… one kind of unexpected hero. While we love to make fun of him, we should probably always give him credit for this as we complain about him.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/76819/how-jimmy-carter-saved-beer

Anyway, that is a very babbling, unorganized, complex, and wide-ranging answer to why popular beer (and a lot of other things) suck… and seem to keep getting worse.

Hope it made sense.

Guitard,

I heard a slightly different story.

“Teokgeo-ri” does not really exist except as slang. It is not an official name… hence it is not a “ri”. It is a dong of Dongduchon. The official address is gwang-ahm-dong.

Teok-ga-ri came about because going over a hill in the area (possibly of the same name) caused one to be out of breath.

Korean slang for “out of breath” translates as “breath comes up to your chin”… which became, as you pointed out, “chin distance” or some similar idea.

I can’t vouch for my version being correct… but that’s what I heard.

#12,

With imports being increasingly popular, they could still produce a better quality product and charge a premium for it as they do in most countries. It would sell. But, as you were saying, they are shortsighted.

…The breweries are also owned by the same companies that produces and imports those imports…which makes me wonder what the markup is on imports.

  1. There are skunk beers. This happens because it is not stored properly.

A bar owner buys bulk and it sits in a non-climate controlled area; hot, cold, hot, cold…

It is exposed to the sun in summer in the back of a truck…

Expired beer.

Any combination of the above.

You get less skunks in the winter. Skunks have become more rare over the years but they most definitely exist.

Q: Why is Toko-ri CP worse than the Galactic Empire?

A: Spice isn’t the only load you have to dump before a patrol arrives.

To those of you who are interested in the concept of better beer in Korea, the following information is provided:

http://www.facebook.com/CraftworksKorea?ref=ts
http://www.craftworkstaphouse.com/
http://homebrewkorea.com/

Some folks are trying to give people good beer options – either by opening a bar or making it themselves.

Also, there’s a Korean-American guy who is running an American Craft Beer importing company here that currently supplies Anderson Valley, Lost Coast, and Rogue Brewing Company beers. They’re pricey, but good.

I lived in the old apartment complex at the far left of that 3rd pic for a long time. It used to be a foreigners only complex, sold to private individuals during our stay there (many of the apartments were subsequently renovated). That part of TDC was a nice, quiet place to live (sleazy clubs down the street, which I never visited, notwithstanding). I’d go back in a minute. Last time I was there that apartment complex wasn’t looking too good anymore, though…

The new OB beer, called “OB Gold”, is not bad. Its at least as good or better than any US mass produced beer. And I agree that being in brown bottles, cans or kegs there is little chance of a truly “skunky” Korean beer (except I suppose, Cafri, in the clear “High Life” style bottles), as “Skunky” aroma is a result of sunlight acting on the beer.

Leon,

I have heard the old “it sat around” used as an excuse… but I think it is just an excuse because nobody wants to believe they are drinking used beer.

Korean bar owners have not studied logistics nor do they speak of JIT… but they have neither the space nor the extra cash to keep weeks of unused beer lying around in a back room… so they rotate their entire supply in a week at most.

The distributors also rotate their supply quickly as storage space is expensive.

There never seems to be a skunky beer from a store, either… or Korean-only bars in non-GI areas.

I stand by my idea that skunky beer is due to the games GI bars play.

  1. Sorry CH. I personally know bar owners whose stock *might* have rotated, sitting in an (climate) uncontrolled area, for 5-6 months, maybe longer. I couldn’t believe how much beer they were buying versus how much they sold. Thinking of one owner in particular, I’m suspecting a huge bulk discount on nearly expired product. Possibly saving 3-5 cents a bottle! Oh, it’s worth it.

I know I never sold used beer in my bar but sometimes, but rarely, got a skunk.

As far as sunlight and brown bottles. Meh. Hauling brown bottles around on the back of an uncovered flatbed for a few days?…

oh man this brings back memories. was with the MP’s from 2004-2007 here. I remember the king club and mustang club the most. mustang for the crowd/music and king for the girls

I was in Camp Hovey – Toko-ri from 1966 to late 1968. I don’t know how it changed but then it was one of the most laid back places in Korea. The people were friendly and the food was great. The pot was cheap and it was mellow. The girls were all Korean, no foreign girls at all. There wasn’t a paved road anywhere to be seen, except in the camp. There were no buildings over one story that I can remember, even in camp. Most buildings were quonsets except for the mess hall and the officer’s quarters. The clubs were called the New Seoul Club and the Niagara Club, etc. A yobo (girlfriend) was $15.00 a month and it went up as you gained rank. We used to do field marches up to a place called Wang Bang Knee. If you wanted to go to TDC, you could take a Kimchi bus at the risk of your life. Going over the pass to TDC was always an adventure. The village was a floating mud puddle during monsoon season. I don’t think many of us wanted to go to TDC because we had our own little tucked away paradise. It was among the best times of my life. I would go back in a minute if it were still like that. Unfortunately it does seem to have changed a bit.

One of my buddies just returned from Hovey last week. He said Toko-ri is now Off Limits. He did say that since it is Off Limits, the MPs and the units patrols do not go there, it is a good get away.

  1. Is this an unofficial secret off-limits?

Re: OB and skunk beer – shit, when I was in Korea, I’d drink a semi-cold beer out of a homeless man’s shoe; In 1987 at 800 won, it was not a bad deal. When out and about, who cares about the beer?

As for Toko-ri: I lived a five minute walk from the main gate at Camp Casey. It was too easy just to go there. On 2 or 3 occasions, however, I wanted to see what Toko-ri might have to offer. While not dissapointed, I was not so impressed, either. I did meet one nice person at the Ace club, but not so nice that I went back. Honestly; why travel to go ride on a merry-go-round when you already live in Disneyland? I will admit that the cab rides were nice, especially if you told the adjushi to go fast; the ride through the mountains was nearly as fun as a roller coaster.

I was also stationed at Camp Hovey (1966-1968) where I met Steve Dudas and we became friends and still are. Tokori was a great little village back then. There was a road that went up behind the village along a stream – great place to stop and have a picnic – very scenic. I stayed overnight many times – returning back to base in the morning. We would buy a teapot full of Malkoli for about 40 won – drink that and smoke pot. I really had a great time there even extending my tour of duty for an additional year. Also had a great time touring much of South Korea. The people were very grateful for us being there and protecting them.

Looking at these pictures – I can’t believe how much everything has changed.

Toko-ri was a “ri” at one point. Mail to my hooch off base back in the 80′s was Kyonggi-do, Tongducheon-Shi, Kwang-am-dong, Toko-ri, and whatever the street address was.

I was stationed at Camp Hovey from 1989 -1990! I spent so much time “down range” in the ‘vill my buddies called me the Mayor of ToKoRi! You could usually find me at the Enjoy Club swilling something cold, hardly ever OB. I think they sold Bud there, can’t remember! Usually had a LBFM close by trying to hustle a drinky or a short time!! I was very glad to see the photos posted here but can only remember the “GI” Club and Jun Bar B Q! The Enjoy club was up that alley between the two in the pic! Tried to go by there the day before I PCS’ed but the place had been shut down for some reason. I’d like to go there again and see the place, but I am too old now to “Enjoy”!!!

I was stationed in Yongsan at the 121 Evac Hospital from 1979-1980. One of the few things that I didn’t like about Korea was that the beer sucked. There were 2 types, OB (OB is an appropriate name since it tasted like Obstetrical drainage) & Crown (less nasty in my opinion but not by much). I went back to Korea for a week after I retired in 1996 on the way to my wife’s home in Cambodia & they had Budweiser. It’s not great like Guinness, German, or Czech beers but it’s better than OB or Crown. I drank oceans full of soju, mokoli, & oscar when I was stationed there. The pot was just ok but you could get different pills or codeine cough syrup in the Korean pharmacies. For any law enforcement personnel reading this that is just what I heard. The year I spent in Korea was the best year of my life, it was one big party.

Perhaps drinking OB is just an acquired taste. I know that after several months in Korea, I acquired the taste quite nicely, thank you. Hell, I could even drink that wierd-ass “champagne”, Oscar, and not toss my biscuits. If one can tolerate (or even enjoy) soju or makkoli, one could certainly like OB!

Did anyone ever try kolyangju? It is a Chinese whiskey; that shit gave me a three day hangover. Never again!

Ahh Hovey ville! My first introduction to military night life in 1990. My first drink, my first time over seas, first time experiencing the “Drinky” culture…..the days. I love your comparison between the Casey ville and Hovey Ville…too accurate. I used to love going to Hovey Ville because I knew that all other G.I.’s were in Casey. But one time they shut Casey down and put it off limits, that night I think half of 2ID was in Hovey ville. I had never seen it so crowded. Thanks for the pics and memories.

Sorry for the double post – but this is a more appropriate place for this:

I went out the Camp Hovey gate and drove through Tokori last night. It was sometime between 9:00 and 10:00pm on a Saturday — and I literally did not see a single soldier.

My how things have changed . . .

Wow! I was stationed at Cp Hovey 69-71. I was a “Ville Rat” and actually married a girl from there, two sons, and doing well. It was a little broken down village and I can’t believe how it has changed. When you walk out the Hovey gate I actually bought the first building to the right, don’t know if it’s still there (if so I own it lol), it had been bought by a former MSG, two rooms and pretty snazzy for Tokori, I think I paid like $300, huge sum in those days…aaah they were good times….

I would love to go back and visit

I like Steve Dudas’s post, why go to TDC when we had a little bit of heaven on our front door. I also remember Steve, the New Seoul and Niagra Clubs.
True story…the little stream that floated thru Toko-ri and Camp Hovey. I had snuck out without a pass and somehow got thru the front gate…to get back I used an air mattress and floated right to my barracks which was just off the stream. I don’t think I was the first to do this, they always put up wire but somehow it always got torn down…great crazy memories…..

Interesting stories on how the name Tokori came about. You learn something new all the time. I’m wondering if there are still any references to Wang Bang Knee where we did our full pack marches back in 1966-68? It was uphill all the way out and uphill all the way back. Never figured out how they did that. I suspect the name ‘Wang Bang Knee’ is a G.I. given name but I’ll let you break it down. Obviously somebody with a tauxan chargee who was bragging about it.

By the way, Bill Coughlin, I was in HHC, 2/32nd. Which company were you in?

I was at Hovey in spring and summer of 1971.
HHC 1/23. We had just come off the DMZ over at Libby bridge. Brought my girl from Changpa ri down to Toko’ri. We had a hootch just out the back gate and up on the hill on the right.
It was cool. Work on base 8-5 then down to the vill for the night and all weekends.
No having to be back by midnight and only 25% of your unit able to be on pass like it was when we were across the river.
The vill was a bit of a mud hole though,but it was in that beautiful valley. It’s funny I just moved from Irvine Ca where I lived for 24 years and it now has a huge Korean population. In 2000 a Korean family bought the house next door and hearing Korean bought back lots of memories.When I tell the Koreans that I was there in the army they almost always say thanks to me for serving. I sold my house to a Korean family when I move here in Tulsa Ok. The family got $250,000 from their parents in Korea for the down payment. South Korea has come a long way.

Toko’ri was there from 84 to 86 good time had by all remember thunder runs and jungle juice thought i died and went to heaven lots of girls too hahahaha thanks for the memories do they still do the horn run on saterdays

What a deference. I was station at Hovey in 1966. What a rat hole then. Muddy streets 4 inches deep, shanty town at best. Mothers selling their daughters. I see it’s still Loaded with bars and whores. Had some fun though, culture shock back then for sure.

I was there in 1977…..mud streets, dirt roads (MSR 1 was barely paved then), tanks and 2/5 trucks on the main roads, that was To ko ri and TDC….

Then you can imagine what it was like in 1966. Same mud but probably more of it and that refreshing aroma from the rice paddies when the first spring thaw occurred. You remember that aroma, right? Straight from the hard work of the honeydippers. By the end of the first week, you didn’t even notice the smell anymore. Ah, what a place. I would go back in a minute if it still existed.

wow… is this really Tokori ? I was stationed at Hovey from oct 71 – Jan 73. I was a gate guard for some of that time, and the rest of the time I was in HHC 1/23 Inf commo, on the hill just above the Motor Pool.. or the commo chief of Combat support and spent some time on the Z. I was a 17 year old kid, and sure remember some of the best times I had in my life. I never looked at it as a bad place, I had so much fun how could I. It was a dirty mud hole that I do remember, but hell I still enjoyed my time there so much that if given the chance I would do it again…..

I was stationed at Camp Hovey from Oct 1966-1967. Met and married my first wife there. Three kids and four grandchildren later I still have mixed memories of the place. I long for the days when a dollar would buy just about anything.

Was with HHC 3/32 as Radar Operator from Jan 67 thru May 68. I totally agree with comments regarding “the time of our lives”. Toko-ri was a real eye opener for a 19 yr old. Like the old west. Spent all your money on beer in the clubs and to mamasan for the short time with the bar girls. The town was really nothing more than wooden shacks and some store fronts with dirt roads and an occassional town well. The bars and clubs were always packed with G.I.’s and the music blared in the streets from the time you walked through the Hovey gate. The surrounding rice paddies brought tears to your eyes during the spring thaws, and frozen toes when walking guard on the dikes in winter during alerts. Spent 3 months on the Z at GP Hendrix, and never regretted a day spent in Korea. It was great being 19 and innocent.

I was an 11 Bravo at Hovey in 1-503 Inf, 87-88. I raised a lot of hell that year. What sucked about Korea was that all of the NCOs and Officers lived cheek to jowl with you-no family to go home to, so they were more involved in a soldiers personal life more than at a typical stateside assignment. Also, they would pull your pass for the smallest of infractions or just for the hell of it. Having said that, outwitting NCOs and Officers was something I enjoyed doing. I had an overnight pass every night-even when I was restricted. I preferred Toko-Ri to TDC because I had my favorite bar and knew the owners and was treated pretty decently. I went back to Korea from 94-97. Things had really changed.

I was with CS 2bg 34inf in Nov1959-1960. Toki-ri was a primitive village through I drove my jeep on the way to my alert station. The streets were unpaved and often muddy. The stench from open sewers was worse than the rice paddies. When the Niagra Club opened it was a time for celebration, because it was the most substantial building in the village. There was a more convenient community north of Toki-ri that we used to village via a hole in the fence. It was necessary to traverse the rice paddies, because there was no road.

Just ran across a guy who was at Toko-Ri the same time I was there…it’s interesting that all of our memories are the same….it was a dirty little village, but it also had it’s good points, good times….I think Steve said it best, the smell was awful, but after a week you got used to it. I spent over two years there and would have spent the rest of my military career there if they let me…great crazy times

CHIPPERB… Was same unit & time as you .. 87-88. Look up Camp Hovey page on FB. What company were you with??
Tokori was THE BEST !! In 87-88 it was our ‘ville!! We loved it there!! Great clubs & places to eat once you got to know your way around. I’m not talking Vegas here but, for the time, place, & circumstances. If you’ve been there you know what I’m saying.

I was there in 91-92 as medic in the 1/5th. I can honestly say I had the time of my life down in Toko-Ri. All I can remember was the Grand Illusion and the Wild Rose or Yellow Rose. Looked a lot different 21 yrs ago. There was a lot of “juicey” girls then but you figured them out and they also figured you out. They would just await the next “Turtles” to show up. Poor girls…good times! How about that SoJu??!! Was kind of happy to throw my boots over that power line and fly outta that hole. What I really miss is the food! I’d like to get a group together and ride the train to Ouijambu(sp), take the subway to Iaetawon and party the weekend on HookerHill. Anyone remember the HeavyMetal Club or the King Club? How about drinking Kettles on the Hill when the clubs closed long enough to restock? The only place that stayed open really late or all night was that club on the top floor of the building at the bottom of Hooker Hill. I didn’t hit Seoul til I was in country for 7 months. Too much to do in TDC and Toko-Ri. “AlwaysReadySir”-Second to None

I lovedf Korea 1973-1976 Gun Fighter in Charge was with C co 1/9 inf KEEP UP THE FIRE mancho heavy dragons loved that PEACH Osker could find me at papa son club mosa>>>>11 C4 P and 95 B4 P mortors and Military Police

the club pictured that was burned out, looked like the old Olympus club….had a lot of Filipinas in there….great times!!!! HHC 1-9 1998-2000

I remember like it was yesterday, i spent my last weeks in 06 at casey,and tokori my club was the indian head. I was in search of the famous tokori midget. how i miss the cool fall, early winter nights waking in the cold with a nice soju buzz smoking a cheap Korean cigarette and watching the juicy girls tremble, wearing almost nothing…. one day i’ll go back

11B 1/38th in 77/78. I remember Toko-Ri as a great place. More class than that dump outside Fort Polk for sure. There was unofficial pressure to take up with a Yobo full time in the village to keep you away from the bar girls. I still remember the little hearts the “official” girls wore they got from their last medical checkup. Sort of a “Best used by” date.

With Charlie, 2/32, at Hovey in 1969-70. Toko-ri was always our choice…getting over to TDC took too much time and I ran into some problems there with slicky boys on a couple of occasions. Mostly hung out at the Niagara in Toko-ri with pal Sonny Koger. Yup, the place stunk to high heavens and the best part of winter was that the ville didn’t smell as bad. These pix show an entirely different place. Paved roads? Wow.

Still a little new to computers at 55, was at C 1/9th from 77 to 78. Never heard anyone mention the top 10 VD guide bill board at the Main gate at Camp Casey, have a photo of it. Tokori was mainly a week day thing when we weren,t in the field and you could hit the house boy Mr Cho up for a loan with interest, the New Seoul club was my favorite.TDC was mostly the payday weekend deal but one thing for sure I would not of traded that one year for the three spent in Germany.

1968-69 Tdc Was good for a17 year old to grow up

Served 11 months on Train Fire Range at Camp Casey from Aug. 64 to July 65. Worked at zero range where personnel learned how to set the sight on there rifle and how to use use there weapon. Served with a great group of men.
Cpl

I’ve been serving in Yongsan for a couple of years now and I’m having a great time! Funny, we are on exercise in Daegu. We were talking about the midget of Tokori yesterday and if it was an urban legend. That’s how I stumbled onto this blog through a google search. I love hearing the old stories and have a few myself.

Not to disappoint but Teokgeori is almost about shutdown. There is only maybe 4 bars still open and yes, the prostitution is still prosperous, but you dont see hardly any GIs or CPs/MPs hanging around…they mostly go to the TDC Ville now. BUT, GIs looking for a quick lay you will see out in these few clubs and it isnt that they are there for drinks only! Anyone with a brain knows what their plan is, been there done that. The prostitution goes on in the TDC Ville as well though…its all who you know and if Ajima know you or not. Pay your $200 to $300 dollar barfine and the girl is yours for the night! Not like in the 90′s when you could go upstairs for a shortime for nearly nothing! but than again, I used to get laid in a dark corner with the girl riding me…no need to pay to take her out and MPs/CPs would just turn a blind eye back than anyways. Attempt at stopping Human Trafficking from the Philippines is a joke! Talk to most of them, they use Hong Kong as the “back door” to enter Korea to work in the clubs. The club burned down in teh picture, the fat Korean guy who used to own it married a juicy and now lives in the Philippines. The Midget from Teokgeori works in a Korean bar near Camp Red Cloud in Uijeongbu. The club system will never go away as long as there are foreigners in Korea spending money…the KTO has too much power! Now if the 2ID Commander had a pair like the Osan Commander, than that would make a HUGE difference in TDC with no Filipinas! But hey, I’d like to see the Koreans come back anyways, and they are slowly gaining ground with the bar “Beerland” being all Koreans, which is nice! But in typical Korean fashion, they will suck your wallet dry if you let em! There is a club owner that used to own Hans Club across from the Bosan-Dong train station and now owns a little bar called Hans in the TDC Ville. Notorious for having her girls runaway. She even tried to prevent it one by taking the Filipinas to Pocheon to prostitute out to Koreans, but that only lasted for about a year. I’ll end, I could write a book on TDC, been there so many years and know the system used in the bars! Oh and Yongsan…dont even waste my time going there. You gotta carry an “Off-Limits” list with you just to find a place to go in Itaewon…not worth my time. Waiting to see what happens outside the Camp Humphreys gate as it grows…a small club district right now, but I foresee it growing. Again, another place easy to get laid…been there recently, done that. Break curfew, it FUN! What’s the worst that could happen, they send me home to the States?? YIPPEE!

Funny, I was in Casey in 1999 in 2/72 Armor and me and my Filipino friend went to Tokori to see the midget. I’m pretty sure she worked at the bar that was shown as burned down. Anyway, we walk in and my friend isn’t much more than 4 1/2 feet tall and the midget walks up and he starts laughing. I look at him and I look at the midget and I look back at him and I couldn’t help but laugh, too.

I just dreamt about my experiences in 93/94 there in Tokiri… what a time I had. New Seoul Club was the name of the place and the girl I liked most was Sauni. I knew nothing about life and I was introduced to it from Korea, don’t know if that is good or bad. Thanks for posting all your stories. Maybe one day I will return, only reenlisted once but was for Hawaii. Got out and moved on with life. Stay out of trouble and enjoy your service gentlemen.

1968 was a good year

Glad to hear the New Seoul Club is still around. It was there when I was there in 1966. I think it was about half way down the road that went left when you entered Tokori – before the road went out into the countryside (rice paddies, along the river). The road that went straight was the road that the Kimchi buses took to get to TDC. There was also the Niagara Club and a few others that I can’t quite remember now. The word ‘concrete’ was unknown in Tokori as the roads – both of them – were muddy ditches that the deuce and a halfs lurched through during monsoon season. And occasionally some villager would pretend he was hit by one of the Army vehicles so he/she could collect a few bucks. When I saw that on a M.A.S.H episode, it took me back because it was so true. Earl, what company were you with? I was HHC, 2/32, 7th Inf. Company clerk (original Radar O’Reilly).

127 th sig battalion Korea 67/68 101st airborne nam 69/70

Is Toko-ri even worth going to? Itaewon seems more like a tourist trap. There’s got to be some old school clubs left out there.

Mike: depends on your definition of old school, but anything that an ‘old timer’ remembers from the pre-1990s – that kind of club scene completely disappeared by the early ’90s. And it ain’t been the same ever since.

I was there in 2002 and it was pretty tame even then. Didn’t see any women covered in chocolate or wax, maybe a few giving discreet handjobs in back booths, and alas we missed the midget as well. I think the main difference these days is that you’ll be unlikely to find any Russian women there. I was in the main ville up there five years ago and it was practically all Filipinas even then, with the odd Korean woman here and there.

There are still lots of Russian women working Texas Street in Busan these days. The older ones charge W10,000 for a lady drink at the little bars along the main drag, and the younger ones tend to work the noraebangs, where they can pull more coin from a Korean clientele. There are also a lot of Russian streetwalkers in the back alleys if that’s your thing, and some of them can be pretty freaky. The drunk Russian seamen wandering about also make things interesting — they’re a friendly bunch on the whole, but things can quickly turn ugly if you’re not careful, but that’s pretty much par for the course.

All the way to Busan for a Russian chick? Too far a weeknight.

Well, there’s always Rio in It’aewon. You won’t find too many “tourists” there.

King Baeksu: I hear you brother. I’ve never been to Rio, couldn’t even tell you where it’s located.

Guitard: For what it’s worth, my definition of old school would be clubs where political correctness and the morality police are extinct. About 3 years ago there was a lot more Russians frequenting the bars in Itaewon. They must have relocated somewhere else with more earning potential.

Jan 67 to Dec 68, got there the day that N Korea took the Pueblo….cant remember the unit anymore except that I was a mechanic in the motorpool for HQ company at Hovey when it was 7th Inf…. Hard to remember much of it but Toko-ri was all mud, narrow alleys, sweet young girls and the OB was better than the Schlitz they sent over. Now I find myself needing proof that I was rotated to the DMZ where we got the agent orange. VA doesn’t have records of it even though I went thru Libby bridge so many times I didn’t need clearance. It was good times..what I remember of it..

Im from bounce club. I miss korea. I worked there for 9months and our boss have to send us home becoz clubs are getting shut down. Im happy seeing these pictures it reminds me of the day that i met alot of new people army korean pilinos …. It brings back memories hope i can get a contact no. Of the owner of bounce club. I really miss them.

#76

Don’t you know you were a victim. You were rescued from human trafficking.

Thanks GI Korea, you refreshed my memories. I was stationed on Hovey from 1998 to 1999. I just remember that I was in charge of the Warrior Passes, 2/17 FA HHB Unit, I was the king . I really had an excellent time in Tokori with my body Pedro. All those photos gave me a flash back.